Hawker Hind. Model built 1951, 63 inch

[Scooby Do]

Very excited to buy this very pretty plane! 63 inch would have been very big just after WW2. Control line, I guess no radio control then! AMCO 3.5cc. Believed to be 1951 too. So pleased to get original engine, if it is!

Ment to be winter project ( it is summer here now!) but really want to start. Any tips appreciated!

 

[Danny Fenton]

That looks a real challenge, I look forward to seeing how you get on. I restored a couple of planes in a similar state and my biggest problem was the old glue had gone really brittle and as soon as the covering came off it all tried to revert back to lots of bits of wood

Cheers

Danny

[Scooby Do]

Hi Danny

Yes, I can imagine the brittleness. thanks for that.

I am new into this. I see this plane that has survived 60 years.. can not be many, especially this pretty. I feel a responsibility...with the brittleness I imagine there will be only one hard landing so I need to practice on other planes! . But I drive my 1969 Fiat 124 coupe regularly, hard, because there is not much point in having something to not do with it, what it was built for!

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Are planing to convert it to RC?

 

Its lovely - I have a real soft spot for the Hind - it was one of my choices on the "Pick a Plane" for TN to design. A beautiful aeroplane.

 

BEB

[Danny Fenton]

You do have to try and not get emotionally attached. I did and ended up replacing most of the wood as that was also very dried out. I could have built another quicker and for the same cost.

The Hind/Hart and Fury all tick a few of my boxes too. There are some plans about arent there?

 

Cheers

Danny

[Tim Mackey]

Off topic...but as Danny mentioned emotion - I think it was Andy Ellison who often reminds us

"Never get too attached to something you are gonna throw off a big cliff" LOL

How very true, and of course equally applicable to any flying object.

[Danny Fenton]

Lol we still flaming do it though don't we Tim I bought my Fury to enjoy and somebody talked me into giving it a makeover LOL then suddenly I liked it too much to fly it "like I stole it"

 

As Tim says off topic and perhaps the subject of another thread LOL

 

This was a Flair Pupeteer that was "given" to me - I think at my club I had a lable for not letting old planes die quietly

 

Ah well, the most important thing is that you enjoy the hobby, and I enjoyed kit bashing that old pupeteer.

 

Cheers

Danny

[martyn sharp]

Posted by Tim Mackey - Administrator on 01/03/2011 13:56:54:

Off topic...but as Danny mentioned emotion - I think it was Andy Ellison who often reminds us

"Never get too attached to something you are gonna throw off a big cliff" LOL

good advice must remember that when out with the mother in law

 

Martyn

Edited By martyn sharp on 01/03/2011 14:52:45

[Scooby Do]

Thank you all.

 

i agree with the general sentiment being " If it was made to fly...fly it!"

still undecided if to R/C it. I 'm new to that, have several trainers for starting on. I will tidy it up & the engine sorted first. then decide. a very pretty plane. I was aware of Afgan full size one, thanks for lead. 2 being restored here in NZ...might go look!

[Matt Halton]

Hi Scooby, very nice find indeed!

May I ask where it was stored in all that time?

 

Good luck with the restoration, a worthy project if there were any!

 

Matt

[Scooby Do]

Hi Matt!

I got it from a young guy who had it some years, broken. It got broken falling out of storage in a garage rafters, onto the bonnet ( hood) of the car below. Spinner put a very healthy dent in the bonnet of the the car . The car belonged to this young guys mate

 

. So the mate gave or sold it to the young guy The mate bought it...in the roof...from the old guy that the mate bought the house from So over the house changing hands from old guy to mate, the plane had just stayed there. The old guy had flown it "maybe 20 or 30 years ago". I have the adress of that house. Maybe. (The young guy is not too sure cos his mate split up with his missus & is no longer in the house.) But the young guy gave me the mates' parents' phone number.Once I can get the adress I can get the old guys name off the title..

 

And, as well, there is only one big model club around here. I am sure some " old guys" will know the plane. Not likely to be too many others like it!

 

 

[Tim Hooper]

Nice find!

 

I'd be tempted to keep it as a CL model, but draw around all the parts and make a second one for RC.

 

Probably easier to do that than to try and retro-fit dihedral, ailerons, rudder etc into the original.

 

tim

[Scooby Do]

Thanks Tim

Good idea. It seems there are few plans for Hinds. This looks pretty scale. So before recladding, which is about all needed to fly once engine going, I will draw up plans.

 

 

In fact I can actually photocopy the elevator & rudder & lower wings!

 

I will post how i get on.

 

He certainly built it lighter than I would. 2lb 7 oz as is, control line flyer I guess at 2 lb 12 oz! with a 63 inch wingspan!

 

 

I think us new boys often overbuild.The Hind is half the weight of this wing warping monoplane I am building.. 6 lb 2 oz at the same wingspan ( With RC gear)

 

 

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[Simon Chaddock]

Scooby Doo

My initial look at the structure tells me this Hind was not really intended CL. It looks much more like it was originally designed for free flight.

 

On this basis I personally would have no qualms about converting it to RC.

The AMCO 35 would have shaken everything pretty hard so maybe consider electric as a concession to the structures age.

[Scooby Do]

Hi Simon

I think you are right about being a freeflight. Fin is off so can not tell if offset. But engine is not offset.

And decider is perhaps the weight. I know little, but 6 oz / square foot I think is typical of Freeflighers is it not?

 

Electric...had not thought of that...maybe it could be my first? Would overcome the lack of throttle on this engine.

[matt jarvis]

Hi Scooby,the Hind looks a great project, its a favourite of mine,I've built the Hart version and also a larger 55" wingspan Hawker Nimrod.

I look forward to following your progress.

Hawker Hart

Hawker Nimrod.

[Scooby Do]

Hi

thank you all for great advice. You have helped me a lot.

 

 

 

So:

AMCO 3.5 Engine out of this 60 year old, 63 inch Hawker Hind. Engine is is loose but I think all I will do is just unfreeze contra piston , make throttle needle to get engine running.

 

 

After making plans ( thanks for suggestion to make plans from this plane) , with careful look over, all it really needs is a re skin, re install control line gear & get an expert to take her up with this 1951 engine. You Tube video will be posted.. She will be a 60 year old original.

Will build an R C model later..

 

those of you who are following, let me know if you would like plan e mailed when done..

 

Engine: Looks like a mole grip used to remove cylinder from block. Any better way you suggest?

 

 

Throttle needle; any idea what thread it will be? you can not see here in the photo below, but it is an external very fine thread. It may be easier to re make both parts perhaps with a convenient thread. I assume no parts still available? And what taper the needle should be ? Suspect taper not criticalwhat is the little bit of tin, going up and down adjacent to the "block"? thanks for ideas

 

 

[Scooby Do]

Matt:

Your planes look awesome! How could such a beautiful plane be so little built?

 

What is with the very big air intake/ below yours ? Is it specific to certain models?

Mine has it too, but all Hind photos I have seen do not.

 

 

Yours look never crashed !

[Scooby Do]

AMCO 3.5cc 1950 diesel very light?

It seems to be 6 oz which I make 150 grammes. That feels & seems light for an old thing. Any opinion?

[matt jarvis]

Scooby,the air intakes on early variants could be retracted,but why? I dont know!!,the Nimrods intake was to become larger as the design moved closer to the Hawker Hurricane.

 

Edited By matt jarvis on 06/03/2011 16:19:00

[Scooby Do]

Tim Hoopers Free Plan & construction guide to the Hinds forbearer, th Cygnet, has got me thinking about my restoration again. To date I have just tidied & repaired, & installed a new, replica, AMCO 3.5

Things to decide before doing more on this 60 year old, 3 1/2 lb freeflight 63 inch model:

Whether to use the original power, a 3.5cc AMCO diesel. Underpowered, but I have read low power important with free flight biplanes. Electric less tough on the structure.

Whether to put R/C in. 3 channel? Or if to put ailerons, even if just bottom wing.

Then it is bound to need more power.

The wings were non removable top, but wooden dowel removable bottom. Although it looks like all the struts were then glued solid. It was pulled apart when I bought it.

63 inch is a sod in one piece, but a lot involved in rebuilding it true & square, plus making it de rig able like Tims's Cygnet.

Not in a hurry as I would not yet have skill to fly it. But I do love the Hind's look, this model's history , and building as a relaxing hobby. Opinions appreciated on these choices: Electric? 3 channel R?C? Demountable wings?

 

 

[Scooby Do]

Here is the new engine, installed. They called this AMCO "the Finger Biter" and this really chopped my finger. I am not going to say how!

 

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Well, free flight and you are in the lap of the Gods - its a big risk with a model as unique as this.

 

R/C - if you make it aileronless the you are going to have to add a lot of dihedral. Not easy to retro fit neatly.

 

There are likley to be really big question marks over the integrity of the airframe - old glues don't always age well.

 

I think you have two choices:

 

1. Restore it as original as possible - but probably don't fly it!

 

2. Restore it as a flying model, in which case I'd; remove all the old covering, clean it up, and then coat the entire airframe with a thin coat of epoxy to reinforce it. Recover with litetex or something similar, consider using a low stress covering, PolyC for example in parts at least. Fit 4 channel radio and electric power it for less trauma to the airframe. And fly it very very carefully on high days and holidays only!

 

BEB

[Scooby Do]

Yes, that bit about the epoxy overcoating, & skin strengthening sounds great advice thanks!

[Scooby Do]

Revelation! It will be a lot of fiddling to do all the changes needed to get this back in the air. And easy for me to crash! Easier to follow B O B' s other advice, make this static, & using Tims's construction guide for the Cygnet ( it is a similar size, too), use the drawings I have of this Hind, and the actual plane as a guide, to just build a new one to the Cygnet method! I suspect it hard to make as imacculatly perfect as he builds, though. Breathtaking tidiness obvious even in the small Cygnet construction photos in the RCME mag.