Martyn K Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hi all I bought this engine about 20 - 25 years ago for a free flight open power model. So far it has never been run. ( I have a feeling that the engine was really designed for a control line model) I would like to resurrect it as a power plant for my Webbit mass build model but need an R/C carb and silencer. It has '21' stamped on the crankcase ( I remember it being 3.5cc in proper units) but am struggling to identify which model it is. It was definitely at the budget end so probably not an 'X' series engine.. http://www.czd.org.uk/aeromodel/images/st21-1.jpg http://www.czd.org.uk/aeromodel/images/st21-2.jpg http://www.czd.org.uk/aeromodel/images/st21-3.jpg Does anyone know what it is and possibly where I can acquire a silencer and carb for it? The exhaust mainfold bolt holes are 32.5mm apart. Thanks for your help (hopefully).. Martyn (Not sure whether it is possible to upload images or whether that right will come after developing beyond newbie to the forum so apologies for the use of links) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 hello martyn...not sure what engine you have there(think it may be a supertigre) anyway-i would imagine you'd be better off buying a new engine c/w the rc carb and silencer..save you trying to source out the item's to fit it--- bearing in mind the age.. ken anderson ne..1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hi Ken Thanks for the reply. Yes it is definitely a SuperTigre (I hadn't realised it was one word - amazing after all this time). I would just like to use it if possible. It's beautifully finished as al ST engines are and a bit unusual in this modern world. Definitely not in the current catalogue list. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Martyn You could try Dave Wilshere at Motors and Rotors. His father, the enigmatic Mick Wilshere was for many years' the UK importer for Super Tigre engines. (when they were made in Italy) Bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Thanks Bert I didn't even know they weren't Italian exotica any more... I'll trry them and report back Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 hmm, pressure feed nipple, fixed carb -G21/19? Might not be the best engine to convert to throttle as it will have advanced port timing. Just Engines would probably be able to fix you up with a carb and exhaust, but as Ken said, you might be as well off just buying a new engine. You could probably get an SC, TT or similar chinese engine for much the same cost as an exhaust and carb for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Supre Tigre production went to China when Mick Wilshire was the importer. He said the quality was better. Bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 OK, Thanks all. I actually have an old (what else) HB21 engine of the same era. That has a R/C carb but just needs a silencer. I could probably make one or get something to fit, but from the advice above, I detect a new engine on the horizon. I'll still contact Motors and Rotors though... see what thay have to say Best wishes Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Just Engines will probably have a suitable silencer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Thanks, I'll try them. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Martyn, the "21" might not refer to the capacity. Super-Tigre engines were usually identified alpha numerically by the series then the capacity. e.g. G21/40 Also I can't remember ST making a 21 capacity engine but they did make several 23s. If you can't get a suitable ST silencer it's easy enough to make an adapter plate to bolt to a different type silencer then the engine fixes to it.Another point is that ST engines often used sub piston induction. Using a silencer will cut the power by a fair amount if it does. Having said that I have a very old ST G21/40 with SPI that I used to power my Magnattila before converting to electric & it was more than adequate for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hi Pat It was defintely either a 21 or a 19 sized engine. It was bought as a demo engine for a new free flight power class as an example of a low cost 'standard' engine, but the idea was taken any further. I was told that the 21 referred to the capacity, however my source may not be reliable Thanks for the advice. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Martyn.A lot of good advice above. Having looked at the pictures, it would seem that the fuel nipple and needle valve are fitted into the crankcase. The venturi being a machined item probably shrunk into the same part of the crankcase casting. The venturi would have to be removed and the fuel inlet/needle valve would then be redundant and have to be sealed off. It would then be necessary to drill the crankcase for a pair of bolts to retain the carb. A pinch bolt would not work because there is no split in the casting to clamp up onto. You would then have to find a r/c carb with the right outside diameter. Which might have a quite small inlet. Quite demanding and difficult to resolve with any certainty. That is unless I am not 'reading' the photo properly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hi Richard Good points, but apparently there is a carb and silencer available for this engine (from Motors and Rotors) which combined are a bit pricey, but cheaper than a new engine. It will be interesting to see how it all goes together. regarding the pressure pressure feed nipple, I actually fitted that, I am not sure I have the original screw, but I guess it will be M2 or M2.5 - easily resolved. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Martyn Good motors those Super Tigres, before I went electric I had quite a few of them. I think I've still got a .29 and a .45 somewhere in the loft. I sold off the rest. His son Dave is a nice chap. BertEdited By David Ashby - RCME Administrator on 22/03/2011 16:06:43 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Hi Bert I didn't know Mick, but I agree, Dave has been very helpful. Regards Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Identified. The engine is a SuperTigre S21... Thanks to Dave at "Motors and Rotors" (and everyone else who has assisted with this). Regards Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Posted by Bert on 22/03/2011 14:58:08: Martyn Good motors those Super Tigres, before I went electric I had quite a few of them. I think I've still got a .29 and a .45 somewhere in the loft. I sold off the rest. His son Dave is a nice chap. Bert Bert, sorry but post trimmed. Please be careful what you say about people. If you're not prepared to say something to someone's face then don't say it here either - remember we're the one's who get sued, not you Edited By David Ashby - RCME Administrator on 22/03/2011 16:04:36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Thanks David, I felt a bit uncomfortable about that as well. Regards Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowerman Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Martyn Sounds like you may have an old classic there. May be better to hang on to it then one day a collecter may be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Posted by Mowerman on 22/03/2011 16:31:40: Martyn Sounds like you may have an old classic there. May be better to hang on to it then one day a collecter may be interested. I think you should use the engine Martyn. How much is an old model aeroplane engine worth anyway? £100? £200? Whatever the price you'll hardly be able to retire on the procedes of the sale of your old model aircraft engines. In my experience most collectors hold on to them till they die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Posted by Richard Bond on 22/03/2011 14:12:47:Martyn.A lot of good advice above. Having looked at the pictures, it would seem that the fuel nipple and needle valve are fitted into the crankcase. The venturi being a machined item probably shrunk into the same part of the crankcase casting. The venturi would have to be removed and the fuel inlet/needle valve would then be redundant and have to be sealed off. It would then be necessary to drill the crankcase for a pair of bolts to retain the carb. A pinch bolt would not work because there is no split in the casting to clamp up onto. You would then have to find a r/c carb with the right outside diameter. Which might have a quite small inlet. Quite demanding and difficult to resolve with any certainty. That is unless I am not 'reading' the photo properly! I think that the venturi is grooved & retained by the NVA being in place. When a carb is fitted the NVA is replaced by a stud with an arc machined out of it & is threaded at one end. When the carb & stud are in place it a nut on the threaded end pulls the arc to clamp the carb. That's how the carb is held in my G21/40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Posts coming in fast.. thanks I haven't stripped the engine so I am not sure how the venturi is held but the description sounds reasonable. I'll find out in due course Regarding collecting. Unless someone wants to make me an offer (quickly) - and it covers a new comparable replacement than I probably wont be interested. (or a good swap) It is a rather nice engine though. ST used to make their crankcases using sand castings - gives a beautiful look and feel to it.I have a feeling that it will soon get soil ingrained though. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 martyn-i think your engine is a 'racing' tuned version also ... looking at that venturi..me i would leave it as it is...and keep it ..... ken anderson ne..1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cantwell Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 i think if you spend money on a carb etc, it will be money down the drain, they where not timed for R/C, but i do think its worth about 50-60 quid to the right user, can i suggest you list it on the for sale, on the Barton control line clubs site, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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