Panther Trainer Autogyro

[Koen Smits]

Posted by Andy Nash on 12/03/2013 21:39:33:

How have you kept your room so clean, mine is covered in balsa dust!

Andy,

I have to keep the room somewhat of clean because i have to share the room with SWMBO, she uses the room to dry laundry if the wetter is bad. I supose you know what kind of noise this kind of people can produce.

Thanks for the pictures from your home made blade sanding jig, probably i'm going that way also.

koen

[Malcolm - coolwind.co.uk]

Rich,

I've been having a small problem with setting up the head movement. I'm not sure if this has been reported previously on this thread - I don't recall it, or maybe its just my build, but I have check all components against the plan and they seem correct..

The 5mm hole in HD1 appears to be in the wrong place. It is placed too close to the hinge line, such that when the head is mounted in the tongues, the top of the tongues is above the hinge line.

The effect of this is that HD1 cannot tilt forward to achieve the -1 degree tilt, (I could only achieve +2.5 degrees), and it also restricts the roll movement, but I can just get the +/- 15 degrees.

To achieve the -1 degree I've had to take about 3mm off the bottom of HD1.

Ideally I should remake HD1 part with the 5mm hole about 2-3mm lower

Is it me or the plan?

Malcolm

[J3hne]

Hi Malcolm,

I found that the problem is with the hole in the Mast Top Tongue.

If you drill the hole as per the cutout it's 20mm from the top.

On the otherside of the plan, on the full mast drawing the hole is 15mm from the top.

This means that the hole in HD1 is in the wrong position!

Had me scratching me head for some time.

I'm hoping that when I get to setup the head i'm not in the same position as you.

Cheers John

[Koen Smits]

Hi Malcolm,

The problem is reported somewhere, I had the same problem.I made the tongues a litle shorter and reworked te radius at the tongues.

Koen

Edited By Koen Smits on 17/03/2013 08:05:38

[Malcolm - coolwind.co.uk]

Thanks John, Koen,

I must have missed the earlier post. As I said i've already taken 3mm off the bottom of HD1, so I'll take the same of the top of the tongues which will alllow the fuller roll movement.

Malcolm

[Koen Smits]

Posted by Andy Nash on 20/02/2013 21:42:30:

Getting the correct angle.

The measurement from the top deck (where the CofG is marked) to the pitch control screw is 208mm.

 

I hope this helps

Regards

Andy

Edited By Andy Nash on 20/02/2013 21:45:26

 

Andy,

To set up the correct angle you measured 208 mm from the decking to the center of the pitch bolt, What is the measurement from the decking to the center of the M5 swiveling bolt ?

These 2 measurements are both importand  also the distance fram the pitchbolt center to the swivelingbolt center.

Thanks

Koen

 

Edited By Koen Smits on 17/03/2013 08:35:04

Edited By Koen Smits on 17/03/2013 08:41:03

[ken anderson.]

a few days ago i did a dry run with my head and noticed the very same thing...that the head wouldn't go down very much at all.......i've just check the drawing and found the same as you's...one side the hole is 20mm...and the other its shown as 15mm...so either the mast supports are wrong or the hole in the head is wrong....i'll wait till young rich comments and then make changes.....i was going to scoop out some of the mast? ...to allow more movement .....

ken anderson...ne..1 mast head dept...

[Koen Smits]

Hi all,

This morning i made a testrun to vac form the canopy. The plug i made yesteday

Balsablock

After some schaving

Schavings

Vac formed

Trialfit

The form from the plug is oke. As you can see, on the last picture, the plug is not smooth enough you can see all the details from the grain and the seam between pieces of balsa where they are glued together.

[Andy Nash]

Posted by Koen Smits on 17/03/2013 08:34:07:

Andy,

To set up the correct angle you measured 208 mm from the decking to the center of the pitch bolt, What is the measurement from the decking to the center of the M5 swiveling bolt ?

These 2 measurements are both importand also the distance fram the pitchbolt center to the swivelingbolt center.

Thanks

Koen

 

Hi Koen

I hope this helps you.

I do like your vac formed canopy. Can I place an order, mine is a bit rough?

Regards

Andy

Edited By Andy Nash on 17/03/2013 11:48:39

[J3hne]

Hi Richard,

Please can you help.

My blade ballances 1" from leading edge ( cord wise)

The ply reinforcing plate is therefore too small. It dos'nt reach the leading edge.

Do I make bigger plates?

Please see pic.

Thanks John

[sebrien andre]

Hello all , Here it is ready for maiden when weather changes !! Need to buy a yellow cone . Best regards from France Andre

[ken anderson.]

nice model sebrien....well done......

ken anderson....ne...1 international dept....

[Richard Harris]

John,

Your lower plates are fine as they are so no need to make any more.

Regarding the pivot hole position I will get back on that as I need to check my original sketchs that were submitted. But as a guide 5 degrees rearward tilt is the position you need to be at at for a start position using the tailplane as a horizontal datum. If movement is restricted then it is easy enough to remove part of the inner mast with a 1/4 square file. You will very rarely need to tip the rotors forwards, generally it is when it is windy and you need to slow the rotors after a landing.

Sebrien,

Nice work, that has made my day!

Rich

[Big T]

Koen, a usefull tip on how to smooth a plug or any other balsa structure. Get some P45 car body filler (Bondo) and mix according to instructions, then smear a very very thin film over the part with a finger. When dry sand with various grades of paper until smooth. Dust a very thin coat of spray paint over the item and then when dry flat off with wet & dry paper used wet. This will show up all imperfections which can then be flatted down further. This can then either be spray painted or used as a plug.

Tim

[Jose L. G.]

Koen. Other tip about the canopy is leave the first one over the patern and mould over this. So the imperfections get lost a bit.

José Luis

[Richard Harris]

Posted by Paul Cox 2 on 16/03/2013 09:48:14:

On the free plan the roll servo aperture is shown offset from the push/pull rod action line, but the pitch control servo aperture goes nearly through the centre of the suggested mount location. Surely this would result in no offset for the control horn? Am I missing something? Any help gratefully received. Weather is rubbish today and I wanted to start the balsa bashing. Paul.

Paul,

I cannot picture in my head what you are trying to describe, when I get home from work tonight I will pull the plan out and take a look.

Rich

[J3hne]

Hi Paul
Spotted the same this morning when measuring for the control rods.
Will mean that pitch rod will be at an angle and not vertical.
Can be corrected if servo are not cut yet.
Cheers John.

[Richard Elliot]

Paul/John

Not sure if this helps but this is how mine run

Cheers

Rich

[Richard Harris]

Paul,

I think I know where you are now, you are on about the centre line frm the front servo to the pitch control? You correct that this is drawn in the wrong place but should be off to the left of the servo, the clearance hole for the pitch pushrod like wise shoould be sfurther to the left.

Just make your clearance hole to suit your model, I cheated and made mine rather large, To finish off I added Litho plate rings too cover up my bodging!

The most important thing with head design is getting the roll bal ljoint centre inline with the centre line of the roll hinge. The pitch is not so important but should be far enough away from the pivot point to give enough throw, the further away the better as the leverage is increased.

Hope this helps?

Rich

[Malcolm - coolwind.co.uk]

If you want the rods as vertical as possible, then another factor which determines if the rods are vertical is the hole used in the servo arm connecting the rod.

I randomly chose hole 4 (from the servo inner) and it looks like I'd need 50% rated down travel to get the correct movement, so as I finalize the setup it looks like I need to halve the mechanical movement (or a bit less to allow for any changes after test flight),

Which Servo holes did the flight tested models finish up with?

Malcolm

[DAVE MATTHEWS 2]

Hi Rich/guys, Firstly, sorry Rich, I found a carbon acrowot cowling that I thought would look cool so I've wandered from the design a bit. re-modelled F1/F2 but it's a fair fit. Made my own rotor head with three z sealed bearings (it's the engineer in me) :~) should outlast everthing else on the aircraft.Digital metal gears on the head. Having real trouble with the pics, when I've resolved it I'll post them :~(

[J3hne]

Hi,

Blades completed.

Made 4 x (easier to glue blanks)

3 x within the 6mm C of G recommended. 1 x well out (now spare)

Weight 54 to 59 gms

Now got to ballance.

How critical is the ballance?

Is iron on covering the best way to go to finish them off?

Help please.

Cheers John.

[DAVE MATTHEWS 2]

Guys, Think I may have cracked it

p.s. Has anyone tried aerobalsa blades out (I know, lazy sod)

Cheers, Dave

[Richard Harris]

John,

Nice blades! If you know which is your heaviest blade use that as your datum. You can add balsa loc to each blade to bring them up to your heaviest one. But at the same time you can get those CG positions closer by apply it to the lighter side. Because you have already drilled your holes remember to paint of the balsa loc along the cordwise CG or you can possibly move it.

The balance is critical, would you use a propeller that was known to be out of balance? for the same reasons blades should be treated the same.

Dave,

The cowl looks right doesnt it? I like it!

Regarding Aerobalsa blades, yes, they will work but I would steer clear of them until you have some autogyro experience under your belt (no dissrespect)

The quality of these blades is second to none but the aerofoil section creates huge amounts of lift. This lift can make a model really sensitive and can pose a problem when trying to spin them up for a take off. They increase the posibilties of a left roll over on the ground if not up to speed, they can aslo, in some circumstances, flutter if the air speed is increased too much.

However the Aerobalsa blade is probably the best blade around for a 2 blade set up, tip weights added completely stop flutter. I have done lots of experiments with these blades.

The blade shown on the plan are recommended, these have been developed by myself over the last few years. I beleive they will give the newbie Autogyro pilot the best possble chance for success, I have tested them hard.

Great work boys

Rich

[Koen Smits]

John,

Try to get all 4 blades to get the same weight, by sanding off some on the heavyer one or attach some weight at the span- and chord CofG position. Read PT balancing act on page 16 RCME April 2013.

I will post some pictures his evening.

BTW The by Richard designed blade balancer is or to small or drawn on the wrong format, A4 instead of A3.

Koen

Edited By Koen Smits on 20/03/2013 16:04:43

Edited By Koen Smits on 20/03/2013 16:05:10