Local model shops - do we support 'em?

[Prop Nut]

I have been trying to replace my old trainer. First, I decided to get the Flair Kite but couldn't find a retailer who had it, so I rang Flair, who had trouble even deciding if they were going to be making any more kits. I decided on an Irvine Tutor, but retailers who show it as available online suddenly find it's out of stock and not available from the distributor. This is the state of the RC aircraft trade in the UK: manufacturers who can't give a straight answer on making any more kits available; distributors who can't/won't get the stock; and retailers who can't be bothered to keep their stock availability accurate - and they tell us we're in a double-dip recession! Support my LMS? I only wish they would let me! Sorry, but a cup of coffee and a chat doesn't cut it.

[Erfolg]

Ohh! Hellcat be generous.

The LMS cannot afford to have any significant stock. Particularly if high value and slow moving.

I am surprised that Internet retailers show stock, when they do not a availability.

To inflame things, HK, when they show stock, they have it! The same was true of GC and is true with BRC.

As to the recession, low turnover will increase the caution of all the parts of the UK model trade, distributors included, where the LMS gets his items from when not in stock.

There is another problem with us modellers, we are like our better half, we are very fashion conscience. Todays hot model, is tomorrows fashion faux pas, not to be flown in public.

[Prop Nut]

Sadly Erfolg, this is a problem I've come across many, many times before - shown in stock, when it's not. I've even driven forty miles to a model shop who have told me over the telephone that they have an item I need, then find it has been out of stock for weeks. I'm not being ungenerous in expecting someone to have something they tell me they have, nor in expecting any business to have the capitalisation it needs to hold inventory, it's simply a question of business professionalism. As it happens, I have found what I want on ebay, so it's another sale not chalked up to a LMS.

I'm hardly being fashion conscious - the Flair (formerly ATS) Kite and Irvine Tutor have been around for donkey's years. Quality and longevity sell, if Chris Foss is anyone to judge by.

[FunnyFlyer]

Well, back in April I bought my Futaba 2.4GHz tranny and receiver combo from my local model shop - Evans' (The Model Shop) in Northampton.

Probably cost me £10 more than an on-line plus p&p purchase. A small price to pay I'd say to support a very long standing shop that opened in 1937.

Click here for a short history lesson.

[Erfolg]

Hellcat, I was trying to say that most designs have a "best use by date", such as the Kamco Kadet, Ely Superfy. If the model is not sold in the must have, sales window, it can sit for years on the shelf.

Trying to be fair to LMS, all the stock cost money, it needs to be sold quickly. The money is mostly borrowed, and therefore incurs interest charges, or if the proprietors own money, it could be earning interest at a Bank/Building society. On this basis all real stock is loosing the retailer money.

I am not a massive fan of LMS, for all the reasons I previously outlined, choice of items is restricted, costs are high, I have to get there.

Yet they are are useful, my LMS, has no real stock, yet has a lathe, which you can use. How does he survive I do not know. Film stock is now virtually non existent, perhaps 3 kits. Does do 2nd hand sales though. A library of old mags. When you consider the overheads, the prices are very low, although apparently high in numeric monetary terms.It seems to model car repairs.

My previous LMS, now deceased some 4 years ago, had a turnover so low that the Cyno purchased, was going off, although stored in a fridge.

I find it hard to see a future for small LMS, relying solely on passing trade. Yes the Webbies should survive, Als, Kings Lynn models. Yet I has no doubts about Galaxy Models, once having numerous outlets and recently big in Mail Order and the Internet.

[Erfolg]

Funnyflyer, you have done exactly the same as myself, although I had to travel about 50 miles round trip and I expect many others will increasingly do. For items such as radios it seems sensible.

I am convinced it is only the relatively large profit on such items which I think will be the bread and butter, with accessories providing a little jam, from a catchment area of some +100 miles^2 (approx 35 miles radius), which allow the shop front to stay open.

If these large LMS happen to be on your door step, you are lucky.

Increasingly I use the Internet mail order and DIY stores for my modelling needs.

It would be interesting if David or Graham did a survey to establish the present position of modelling purchases.

[Dennis Jones]

I believe we need the local model shop sadly a lot have gone the super market way and the days of just popping in for a chat are dying, I do know with exeption of webbiesand other mail order companys the LMS cannot complete in sending goods by post, eg I ordered a kit off a well known kit maker, in stock last monday it been posted yet now the post take's about 6 working days to get to me in Ireland so now that 2 weeks minimum, now you can understand people use the web more its a sad fact of life that only the good service shops will servive

[Jon Laughton]

Here's a thought: a good friend of mine is married to an American lady and when he is in the USA he visits many a LMS. From what he tells me they are still thriving over there and the scale and scope of these stores is so much better than here in the UK...but why?

US RC Modellers are going to be just a canny for a bargain as we are over here and they are just as 'web wise' yet the LMS seems stronger over there....

Thoughts welcome...

[Major]

I do support my LMS (Blackburn Models) even closing eyes on the time needed - at least 3 hours. I do like it much more than any webstore.

[malcolm woodcock 1]

Posted by Jon Laughton on 02/08/2012 10:39:35:

Here's a thought: a good friend of mine is married to an American lady and when he is in the USA he visits many a LMS. From what he tells me they are still thriving over there and the scale and scope of these stores is so much better than here in the UK...but why?

US RC Modellers are going to be just a canny for a bargain as we are over here and they are just as 'web wise' yet the LMS seems stronger over there....

Thoughts welcome...

Could it bethe weather, I've not flown anything yet this year.

[ken anderson.]

as in many outdoor hobbys etc...this year until 2 weeks ago has been a Disaster.....and i suppose the knock on effect...has been bad for the retailer's concerned......still say its wise to support our LMS's.....

ken anderson ne....1........ outdoor dept......

[Erfolg]

From observation at USA Orlando and Miami model stores (whilst holidaying), there seems a more equal age distribution of modellers. Not sure that makes a difference.

In the past the costs of models was far more reasonable to UK eyes. Since the massive fall of the pound, first under Labour and continued under the Conservatives, prices seem similar.

It is noticeable there are vast tracts of the USA that depends on Mail-Order, as populations can be sparse and the towns small.

It is noticeable that the RCM and Quite Flight magazines have folded, so perhaps not quite as dynamic as things might appear at first glance.

[Prop Nut]

Not sure what Erfolg means by the 'Massive fall of the Pound'. FXCM show it averaging at about 1.55 in 1997 and, so far in 2012, it has averaged close to the same. There have been times in the intervening years when it has risen, topping out for a short period at the end of 2007 at just over 2.00, when the proverbial hit the fan in the US, so exchange rates may not be such a critical factor as anecdotal evidence suggests. I agree that many prices are similar; IC engines and radio gear in particular, though kit and ARTF prices still seem significantly lower there. I have spent many happy hours surveying the shelves of Graves R/C, in Orlando, but only buying a few inexpensive bits that were hard to find here.

[Erfolg]

I assume you are talking with respect to the $

The graph indicates what I mean.

With respect to PPP(purchasing power parity) the pound continues to drift downwards.

With respect to the EURO, we are essentially returning to earlier rates when the Euro was launched. Although the PPP seems to be  much worse. I guess those UK pensioners living in Spain and France will have a view on the relationship.

I bought a number of kits in Graves, the cost at about £30, whereas in the UK they were in excess of  £60, a factor of 2 (notice the advanced mathematical analytical analysis). The last time I visited last year I think, the prices were pretty much comparable.

Graves is probably the best model shop I have visited in the USA, although Hobby Lobby Stores seem quite good.

I went to AHS (i think that is what it was called), From magazine adverts I thought it must have been really big. What did I find, a small upstairs room, in a decidedly dodgey area of Manhattan, a few blocks from what was the Twin Towers. Bare floor boards, and a vendor with all the charm of Bernard Manning, who said, "are you a Pollack?", when enquiring where the kits were.

Edited By Erfolg on 02/08/2012 15:15:32

[Stroudwaterboy]

I recently travelled to my LMS, £6 petrol 2.50 parking to wait 10 minutes to be served, "Spektrum AR600 please", "ah, give me a minute" he looks up the stock list which I had done before going up to them. He looked through some boxes, "here you go" went to pay for it but the price was different to the expected price so took a second look at it "This is an AR6000", " Haven't got one then", "but it shows it on your stock list", "its often wrong"

I then asked for an AR6210 as I needed a receiver, "nope run out of them". I then asked if I could check through the stock boxes and found an AR400, "I'll have one of these if it is full range", "don't know", so I took it back off him and read the back, first line at the top " this full range receiver" so I paid RRP and was sort of happy as I could fly that weekend.

In short why should I support an outfit that hasn't got what it says in stock, is hard to get to in the centre of a town and even though a novice I seem to know more than they do. I am pleased to have found Kings Lynn Models, very helpful, expert advice, deliver when they say they will and competitive.

[Major]

Posted by Erfolg on 02/08/2012 15:03:54:

"are you a Pollack?"

This made me laugh loud. Why do people hate us erywhere? I'm not proud of being one such, yet still have to pay for it...

[Erfolg]

A few years ago, before the Polish invasion of the UK, I worked in Poland as part of a tripartite arrangement.

For me it was a revelation, the Polish engineers and scientist I worked with had exhibited exceptual training and rigour in all that they did. Their knowledge was second to no one.

I guess humans always need some one to abuse, it varies with time and the groupings.

[Major]

Erfolg

it wasn't so serious, really! Polish invasion, picture of thieves on bennefits, alcohol addicted rednecks and easy girls takes part here. Of course, most of Poles do deserve this as they worked for it themselves. However not all.

I guess humans always need some one to abuse, it varies with time and the groupings.

I do know it very well... But nevermind, it isn't gonna change anything and I don't want too mess up nice forum.

Regards

Tom

[ken anderson.]

think that getting back to the original question that young ashers should take a poll of forumites --ask the question and have a simple yes or no answer......

ken anderson... ne..1 ...yes or no dept.

[Paul Marsh]

Changing the subject a little. I ordered some Sub C battery packs and a little customizing off Componant shop. Quite a big/special order, which needed making up at the factory. Anyway, I left all my details(At Cosford) and would contact me by email by Wednesday latest this week, with invoice and confirmation. He said if I didn't receive so, that I should ring up and chase it.

Now it's Thursday and no reply, and not going to bother chasing my order up, as why should I? If they can't be bothered for my custom, I'll go somewhere else - which I did. The reason I didn't pay him there and then, as a friend had quite a bit of stuff off him, but took ages to finally resolve/receave it and my trust wasn't 100%. Neither of us would use them again. And I'm all for supporting the UK model industry, but if they aren't bothered, why should I?

[G-YRUS]

The fact is local shops are just not good enough and are artf sellers anyway which I know suits the majority. I have only had service from one shop in the UK giving good service, perhaps I am hard to please by today's standards. All praise Steve Webb models. However service from most for mail order is abysmal and truth to say very English, take it or leave it. Most things come from abroad nearly as fast and at a better price with communication 2nd to none. Their customers count. However UK mail order with next day delivery for accessories and fixings, balsa from a small log house of exceptional quality and all the adhesives and paints you need within a couple of days is excellent and cause no inconvenience with a bit of planning. Covering materials I find iffy but there's maybe a business idea. Mail order is not a new phenomina by the way and in my humble opinion far more valuable than a model shop and the cost of fuel and time balances out postage. Ok its only a glossy ad and not a high street sign but as legitimate a business and times change, local model shops have not. If they provided what we as aeromodellers are looking for they would not go out of business, harsh but true. Stop accepting mediocrity demand better and those who survive will hopefully recognise that its what the customer want that keeps them in business.

[Simon B]

As modellers we expect the impossible though. We expect rock bottom prices that most companies can't do. That doesn't excuse poor stocking levels, but having worked in an LMS i've had modellers seriously whinging and trying to get a discount on a 75p piece of balsa (when said piece of wood is being sold at the same price as Slec)!

If we import everything from overseas then soon none of us will have any money to buy this stuff, as we won't have any employed people to buy it or pay for pensions for the retired to buy it either.

[Simon B]

We might all want to watch The Town That Took On China.

As China becomes a stronger economy the prices will rise. Soon we'll be paying the same prices from there and then wondering why we moaned so much.

[Erfolg]

There is nothing wrong in obtaining the best price that is possible. Distributors do it to manufacturers, retailers attempt the same with suppliers and so should shoppers do the same with retailers.

There is a paradox in that many model shops do not seem to know the price of a kit until the distributor delivers/ships the goods and invoice to the retailer.

Now discount on a piece of balsa, wow, I like the shoppers style.

As for manufacturing model goods in the UK, I do not see it happening, beyond niche companies. Although wage rates may be increasing steeply in the Far East, there is still the issues of high taxes in the UK that manufacturers face. Now with the tax man is trying to tax areas which were not subjected to vat (five a side football), the business environment is not seen as friendly by many small businesses as you would hope. Car manufacturers may obtain grants to develop new models in the UK, it does not seem to apply to small manufacturing business.

[G-YRUS]

It still comes down to customer satisfaction if a business is loosing customers there is a good reason or two or three. It is clear that the economic climate has changed and retailers will be affected but maybe they should be a bit more flexible. Non of this changes the fact that my experience is they have no idea how to treat a customer. Gone are the days we have to expect poor service and sadly thats been the British way for too long a fair profit for exceptional service is the way to retain your customer. I will go to the provider of the quality I want to purchase at the price which is fair but the service is best. Good luck British shop keepers you need it.