80 mph speed limit??

[Terence Lynock]

First of all gentlemen and lassies lets keep this cordial and friendly?.

 

The government proposes an 80 mph speed limit on motorways and other places, considering the avarage level of driving skills exhibited in this country that I think would be tantamount to giving a psycho an Uzi 9mm to play with.

Near my house is Queensway which is a 60 mph road linking to the M54, my missus always sticks to speed limits in order to preserve her driving licence but three out of five other cars on the road pass us doing 70 to 80 mph, in my view if the speed limit goes up by ten mph so will their exceeding the speed limit go up but NOT their ability to handle the car at higher speeds.

On the other hand if we brought the speed limit down we would burn less fuel, accidents would not be as serious, less people would die, less disruption to the traffic flow and less damage to the environment, America has had a much lower speed limit than us for many years and it hasnt done them any harm even though they have to travel much greater distances.

What would I like to see? 60 mph top speed, no vehicles with an engine size larger than 2 litre because even 2 litre will do well over a ton, no 4x4 unless you proove you have a specific need for one such as farmers, towing, recovery etc.

and a first and foremost no excuses attitude that if it isnt needed you dont have it.

Driving a 6.75 litre Rolls Royce just because you can afford it, or a 4 litre Shogun for the missus to fetch the kids from school is just plain bad manners, everyone complains about the damage to the environment but wont agree at grass root level to make cut backs, its the driver behind the wheel that burns the fuel but many are too selfish to use a smaller more economical vehicle, so what do you drive?..and is it value for money pound per mile?

[Ben B]

In reality it won't make any difference. The police have been employing an unofficial 80mph speed limit for years. I can remember quite a few years ago on Tommorows World they were showing a brand new "average speed" system for motorways which could work out how fast the average car was going. I can't remember which road they picked but the answer was decididly > 70mph.

 

Personally I welcome the clarification. Just look at when (and why) the speed limit was introduced. An AC Cobra pegging it up the motorway when there weren't speed limits leading to a knee-jerk reaction with the introduction of a finger-in-the-air figure which has no relation to current technology.

 

Though personally I think new drivers (as well as having a zero tolerance alcohol policy) should be restricted to 10% less than the national speed limit on all roads.

[Alan Cantwell]

i drive a 2litre mondeo estate, 55 plate, at 80 mph, ity does 52 to the gallon, quite resonable, i would say, but i am sorry, i do not agree with any of your ideas, 60mph? i want to get there before christmas, and as for 80mph, i do that now, safely, but only on a motorway, copper friend of mine told me no traffic cop would ever do you for 80, as long as you are not driving like an idiot, but go over, and watch out, i do reckon that the 80 limit will tell idiots that its ok to do 90--well, it wont be, so dont

 

as for telling folk what to drive, nothing to do with anyone, nothing at all,

[Solid Snake]

Personally I would hate to see cars limited to 2.0 Litres, I love big engined cars such as Aston Martins and would hate to see them die out. I've never bought into this Global Warming theory, although saving the Earths resources can only be a good thing Besides there are so few of these big exotic cars around, and they probably only do a few thousand miles a year so they hardly do any "damage"

[Simon]

Well from what I read they are only proposing an increase to 80mph on Motroways, not other roads, in fact some A roads will drop to 50mph? and some residential roads to 20mph?

[Spice Cat]

Posted by Terence Lynock on 10/10/2011 20:55:40:

First of all gentlemen and lassies lets keep this cordial and friendly?.

The government proposes an 80 mph speed limit on motorways and other places, considering the avarage level of driving skills exhibited in this country that I think would be tantamount to giving a psycho an Uzi 9mm to play with.

 

Love the bit about the Uzi. Not in favour myself although the current limit, along with speed limits full stop are flaunted.

As for getting there before Christmas; better to arrive alive than dead on time.

I hope as Terence says, it stays cordial.

[Terence Lynock]

One observation, the speed limit is say 80 mph, your car can go 90 mph, the road is clear, light traffic etc but can you think at 90 mph?, like we saw on the TV and this is becoming far more frequent a car overtaking a continental truck is suddenly crushed up the barrier on the fast lane of a two lane M-way.

Why did it happen?, because the car driver just couldnt wait for the truck to be in a safe position so he could overtake it, the faster you travel the less time to think, you reach a point where your mental processes just dont work fast enough and thats the point you become a danger to others on the road.

There is no excuse for breaking the speed limit, whether you drive a fast car or a milk float you are subject to the same laws as everyone else so why be so selfish just because you dont like travelling at a more sedate pace? get it wrong and the funeral courtege' will travel a lot slower.

[Lazygit]

Clarification?, it's clear enough, speed limit on motorways (for cars) is 70mph (except where signed otherwise). HGVs are limited to 56mph. How does making the limit for cars 80mph make it any clearer? The maximum legal difference should be 14mph, making this difference 24mph could increase the severity of any collision.

 

The suggestion of having new drivers restricted to 10% less than the national speed limits could cause frustration in the impatient ones on their tail.

 

I suspect the government was only after point scoring for their party conference publicity.

 

 

[Codename-John]

i totally disagree, and will have a little rant lol

the speed limit hasnt changed since cars had no considerable safety features, same with the highway code stopping distances etc, all the technological advancements means we are safer in a car than ever, motorways should be the safest roads to drive on, motorway crashes arent caused by speed, the autobahns in germany are some of the safest roads in the world, theyre caused by idiots not paying attention etc. you only have to look at the facts since all the speed cameras were introduced, have crashes gone down ? nope in most places theyve risen, theyre just a nice little way for the people in big ben to claim more of your hard earned

if people want to drive big costly cars then its nobody elses business, theyve got to pay the extra for the priviledge in extra tax, fuel etc etc, im sick of people saying you cant do that because of the environment, just think what will it be like for your grandchildrens grandchildrens grandchildren etc, the global temperature has not been altered by carbon dioxide production, it was an idea brought about first by margret thatcher to rid the country of the coal mines and everybody else with something to gain from it has jumped on the bandwagon, you think the car you drive makes any change when volcanoes spew out more carbon dioxide every year than the worlds population put together and have been for millions of years, its just yet another way to pull bit more out your pocket

 

 

[Lazygit]

Posted by neil whilding on 10/10/2011 22:30:47:

i totally disagree, and will have a little rant lol

the speed limit hasnt changed since cars had no considerable safety features, same with the highway code stopping distances etc, all the technological advancements means we are safer in a car than ever, motorways should be the safest roads to drive on, motorway crashes arent caused by speed, the autobahns in germany are some of the safest roads in the world, theyre caused by idiots not paying attention etc. you only have to look at the facts since all the speed cameras were introduced, have crashes gone down ? nope in most places theyve risen, theyre just a nice little way for the people in big ben to claim more of your hard earned

 

You can disagree of course, but though people may not get killed so easily provided they were in the car, it hasn;'t necessarily reduced the nmber of accidents, all of which have an associated cost.

I have a customer who runs private ambulances. He tells me that nowadays with all the safety buil;t into cars most people get out of accidents with minor injuries. This means they are back in the driving seat fairly soon, possibly having learnt very little, and are free to do it all over again.

 

The best safety device would be a spike pointing out from the middle of the steering wheel. That would make drivers be careful, and if they weren't, they wouldn't do it twice.

 

 

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

I believe that 80 mph on a dry motorway is a perfectly reasonable speed in any modern car. When the 70 mph limit was introduced, most cars were running on thin cross-ply tyres, with drum brakes, basic springing and poor damping.

 

I will accept that traffic levels have increased dramatically but accidents are not caused by speed. They are mainly caused by people failing to take appropriate actions, inattention and poor discipline e.g. too close.

 

Surely, a speed limit that most drivers accept to be realistic is more likely to be observed in the main, with drivers exceeding it much more visible. I'd contend that it could actually reduce speeding!

 

The French system of reduced speed limits in poor weather with a decent speed limit of 130 kph (IIRC) in the dry seems eminently sensible to me. Why can I be driving legally in torrential rain and spray at 70 mph in heavy traffic and be considered irresponsible at 10 mph faster on a clear dry road?

 

I've read that accident injury stats have been on a decline for decades in absolute terms - not just in percentage terms - with a slight tendancy upwards since the widespread introduction of speed cameras!

Edited By Martin Harris on 10/10/2011 22:44:41

[Terence Lynock]

So because cars are so much safer we can travel faster in them? in F1 racing the technology saves drivers from fatal injuries in most cases but who is going to pay out for a family car built to the same standard?.

The German autobahn system is only speed limited by how much money you paid for the privelage, so pay top price and do 180 mph, have an accident and its usually someone else put in the box and lowered down the hole.

The avarage number of crashes has gone up year on year but as we now have twice as many cars on the road as we had in the early 80's thats understandable.

People want to drive big expensive cars but they dont foot the bill for the damage done to the environment, its everyone, including the driver of a lowly 1100cc clapped out Fiesta that only uses it to go to work and back, drivers of Chelsea Tractors should have twice the cost of the avarage driver to pay just for the privelage, 4x4 were invented for the US not the UK where they are a danger to other road users in many ways, have one pull up on your offside and try to see whats coming at an island.

[Andy Symons]

Posted by Terence Lynock on 10/10/2011 22:50:34:.

People want to drive big expensive cars but they dont foot the bill for the damage done to the environment, its everyone, including the driver of a lowly 1100cc clapped out Fiesta that only uses it to go to work and back, drivers of Chelsea Tractors should have twice the cost of the avarage driver to pay just for the privelage, 4x4 were invented for the US not the UK where they are a danger to other road users in many ways, have one pull up on your offside and try to see whats coming at an island.

people driving big 4x4 vehicles do pay twice the cost both in road tax and through the huge amount of tax on all the extra fuel they use.

[Codename-John]

it hasn;'t necessarily reduced the nmber of accidents, all of which have an associated cost.

 

yes but neither has all of the speed cameras, speed awareness campaigns, bumps in the road etc etc, which kind of says to me well its not speed that causes accidents, yes they made be more serious by increased inertia from an incresed speed of the vehicle but were talking about 10 mph more on the motorway here, that most people do anyway, perhaps if people were a bit more aware and paid a bit more attention to what they were doing instead of daydreaming, shouting at the kids in the back, singing along to the radio, checking out the hot blonde in the convertible bmw etc then maybe accidents may not happen in the first place,
but thats harder to prove in court etc than having a sneaky little gun on the side of the road

[Simon]

Posted by Lazygit on 10/10/2011 22:40:45:

The best safety device would be a spike pointing out from the middle of the steering wheel. That would make drivers be careful, and if they weren't, they wouldn't do it twice.

well untill some idiot crashes into you while you are minding your own business and you die with a big spike in your chest.......what a stupid idea that would be.

There were half as many cars around 40 years ago, they had less safety features, and yet more people died, around 3 times as many as today, and yet you reckon making cars less safe would be a good idea...??????

[Codename-John]

4x4 were invented for the US not the UK where they are a danger to other road users in many ways, have one pull up on your offside and try to see whats coming at an island.

same for vans, lorries etc etc, do you want them all taken off the road too?

[Spice Cat]

Car safety has come on in great leaps thanks to a great deal of investment and some pressure from government to improve crash survivability.

However, this has had the knock on effect of making too many drivers rely on the cars safety features to tell them when enough is enough. I tend to find with most modern cars, the feedback you from the road noise, steering and acceleration has dimished over the years due to power this that/other/traction control/in car entertainment at 200db and sound proofing so effectively you are no longer in touch with your outside environment.

Many people seem to expect that the high tec systems on the car will miraculously take over when all traction is lost, the car suffers from understeer/understeer or Farmer Giles suddenly appears round the bend in his combine.

The basic issue is that car technology is improving all the time, unfortunately the driver stopped developing a million years ago and I don't think increasing the speed limit is a wise move. What would be better is to incorporate motorway driving, basic maintenance and wheel changing as part of the driving test.

Rant over.

[Vecchio Austriaco]

Speed limits in this country are quite high on normal roads and rather slow on the motorway. Going to 80 would be the average speed in Europe on motorways (lets leave Germany out of the game - they need a playground for their big toys)

You will find on the continent much more 20 mph (30km/h) zones than here - in most of the towns you go 30km/h on almost all roads. And there are no fast connection in cities any more - Vienna has a general speed limit of 30 mph (50km/h) on all roads except the 20 mph zones. Only exception for higher speeds are motorways where you are allowed to go 50 mph (80km/h).

I am happy with the rules as they are, you can go 80 on motorways without getting fined - you do not need to crawl around in most of the towns - so why do we need to change?

Yes - cars are getting more fuel efficient - but also fuel prices are rising - and I have the feeling with a higher speed than the efficieny.

VA, green department

[Turbycat]

Well I've been driving in France this summer and the motorway limit over there is 130kmh which is just over 80mph. I just think it's another sly way of bringing us in line with Europe. Personally I think we should do the usual british thing of ignoring it, painting ourselves blue, scrapping all the smelly rotten dinosaur burning vehicles and getting the good old ox carts back out. That should really cement our place as a third world island off the coast of europe.

 

Come on! It's only another 10mph what's the problem?

[Terence Lynock]

There will,I believe, come a day when your speed will not be limited by whats on a sign, or what the government says it is, it will be limited by what you drive and ultimately everyone will find it so damnable expensive they will all be driving the same type and size of car anyway if they want to drive at all.

With todays materials and technology it is quite feasable to design a low-drag lightweight car body from Kevlar/Carbon reinforced alloy/steel to seat four people quite comfortably that will travel at 60 mph all day long with a 1500cc high efficiency engine at around 70 mpg and the car would have an expected life of around 15 years.

It is possible and many Japanese car companies say it is but nobody wants it, the truth is todays driver has an ego too big to drive something he can afford or looks 'ordinary',

with the growth in traffic how often do you actually get to use your cars full performance potential?, probably never, too man cars and poor roads will soon put paid to that idea.

[Codename-John]

the graph in this proves the point based on actual statisical evidence, and talks a lot of common sense in the whole article

[Alan Cantwell]

you know, i have just got back from the trafford centre( google it) traveling along the M60, at a legal rate, i became aware of lots of brake lights, slowing down, it was an idiot in the middle lane doing less than 55 on a busy motorway, there ARE YOUR ACCIDENT CAUSERS, not the 80 mph boys, the slow as can be people, if you raise the speed limit, then raise the minimum,

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Mmmm. Well when I was younger I'll admit to having a real liking for driving fast. In the job I often go to Germany - no limits on some autobahns - and yes I've clocked over 140mph in a big Audi regularly.

 

But you know, as I've got a bit older I find I've definitely "lost the appetite" for it. Nowadays to be honest on motorways I wind the car up to 70, click in the cruise control and I'm happy with that. The occassional nudge up to 75 for an overtaking move maybe, but very rately more. I don't drive an awful lot by some standards - about 16-17,000 miles per year - but its a reasonable amount and I don't really see the need for an 80mph limit.

 

I've not got strong views on the matter but I would point out two things that make me think that on balance we might be better staying as we are:

 

1. We have one of the lowest death rates on the roads of any developed country - and I don't think that entirely unrelated to our speed limits.

 

2. The amount of damage - hence cost and potential for injury - in a accident goes up with the square of the speed - so 70 to 80 doesn't sound a big increase in speed, just 14%, but the increase in energy in a collision with a stationary object goes up by more than twice that to 30%. Worth thinking about.

 

BEB

[Codename-John]

Posted by Terence Lynock on 10/10/2011 23:26:30:

There will,I believe, come a day when your speed will not be limited by whats on a sign, or what the government says it is, it will be limited by what you drive and ultimately everyone will find it so damnable expensive they will all be driving the same type and size of car anyway if they want to drive at all.

With todays materials and technology it is quite feasable to design a low-drag lightweight car body from Kevlar/Carbon reinforced alloy/steel to seat four people quite comfortably that will travel at 60 mph all day long with a 1500cc high efficiency engine at around 70 mpg and the car would have an expected life of around 15 years.

It is possible and many Japanese car companies say it is but nobody wants it, the truth is todays driver has an ego too big to drive something he can afford or looks 'ordinary',

with the growth in traffic how often do you actually get to use your cars full performance potential?, probably never, too man cars and poor roads will soon put paid to that idea.

and didnt somebody design an engine to run a car on hydrogen where the emissions are water and oxygen, but you cant tax that as much, and the oil companies dont like the idea much either, ooo yet another pattern emerging, those with lots of money who make more lots of money out of things dont want it to stop, so will block these advancements with all their worth

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Surely not observing bad law is far worse than obeying good law. If there's a general acceptance that 80 mph on a dry motorway is a reasonable speed for an average driver in a modern car (I understand this to be the unofficial position adopted by most if not all police forces) then it surely makes sense to legalise that position but enforce it more rigorously.

 

If most drivers feel that this is a natural speed, I believe that bunching up would reduce, leading to a meaningful reduction in accidents and the police would receive more support and encouragement in enforcing the law against the minority of truly irresponsible drivers.

 

If a driver truly feels that they are incapable of thinking and reacting at this sort of speed than perhaps they should be questioning their fitness to drive on motorways in modern traffic conditions. That's maybe a harsh viewpoint but the reality is that the traffic already moves at these speeds.