80 mph speed limit??

[Turbycat]

I would hope your ultra light super efficient vehicle would be at least powered by a Hydrogen fuel cell or a turbine hybrid. However, if you want to look at the future someday somebody will invent teleportation so then the roads will all be clear and I could get my classic 5.7 litre Mustang out and drive as fast as I liked.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Posted by neil whilding on 10/10/2011 23:27:13:
the graph in this proves the point based on actual statisical evidence, and talks a lot of common sense in the whole article

 

As I said I have no strong views one way of the other but to be honest I'm not sure that that graph actually proves very much at all to tell you truth Neil other than the death rate in Spain is scarily high!

 

It would have to be taken alongside data showing, for example;

 

1. Is the speed limit enforced with equal rigour in all these countries?

 

2. Is the data corrected to take into account differient traffic densities in different countries?

 

3. Is the average standard of cars and their maintenance similar?

 

4. Is the standard of roads similar?

 

5. Has the data been normalised to remove bias because of the greater incidence of bad weather in some coutries than others?

 

Without these factors being taken into account, and probably many others, the data is not a fair statistical comparison.

 

Also, lets be honest, the source (a German sporting car magazine I assume) isn't exactly neutral, impartial or of clearly high standing in the world of official statistics is it?

 

BEB

[Codename-John]

its from the association of british drivers BEB, who, according to the site are 20 years old next year, and ( copied and pasted from their site ) do this -

 

The Formal Objectives of the Association
According to Pro-Motor's Memorandum of Association the company has six "objectives". These are:

• To represent and promote the interests of car owners and drivers, motor cyclists and users of other forms of private and commercial motorised vehicles,
• To support better vehicle design and safety.
• To support higher standards of motor vehicle design, efficiency, economy, performance and improved emissions standards.
• To support better standards of driver training.
• To monitor road construction and maintenance, including spending levels, levels of taxation and the cost of motoring generally.
• To monitor road traffic legislation, enforcement and penalties

seems quite well set up, neutral, impartial, unbiased etc to me, and while they cant produce perfect labortry conditons for their graphs as you describe, are at least trying to make things better for motorists in this country where drivers are seen as cash cows to fill the governments and oil companies coffers

 

 

 

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Not quite Neil - if you look at the small print you'll see that the source of the data is in fact "Auto, Motor und Sport" - I suspect a German magazine.

 

Also the lifetime of an organisation isn't necessarily a guide to its impartiality - after all both the Conservative and Labour parties have been around a long time but I wouldn't describe either of them as reliable sources of impartial data

 

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/10/2011 00:08:45

[Wiltshire Flyer]

I am one of the those who think lowering the limit is better than highering it.

 

To those that say i want to get there quickly.... hello??!!! you are in a car!!?? of course you will get there quickly? try the alternative of walking instead and see how much you moan about going slow again!

 

Accidents would in general be less serious etc etc....

 

Someone in my local paper wrote in and said that they believe the only reason the government is considering making it higher is that at that speed the drag on the car would increase enough to make us fill up more thus more money for the government.

 

For that i do not know, but i do know that there is no need to make it higher, those that drive at 80 now will drive at 90 it will not as they claim (bring those drivers back within the law) and when they lose control it's Mr innocent and his family obeying the limit that usually suffer.

 

Don't get me started........

[Rob]

I drive regularly at speeds exceeding 80-85 mph quite legally (blue light on the roof) and think that untill they get the roads in some sort of order pot holes etc. that the current limits are fine. If the limit is now 70 and people are travelling at 80 wont they think that if the limit is 80 then 90 wont be a problem. Just the other day pulled a driver out of his car that crashed at about 60 and belive me it was'nt pretty. Around our area they have knocked back the speed limits on some roads ie. urban areas and accident black spots and it does seem to have made a difference in the amount of accidents that I have seen. 

Edited By Rob on 11/10/2011 01:14:05

[Lazygit]

I was speaking to an accident repair shop recently, and asked "how is business" expecting it not to be too different from the last time, as people were probably crashing just as often. Surprisingly it was 40% down. He suggested it was because people are not using cars as much because of fuel costs, and where they are using them, they are driving slower to improve the mpg.

 

During the 1970s fuel crisis, there was a period where the speed limit was reduced to 50mph. Transplant surgeons had a problem getting parts, as people weren't crashing enough and hard enough.

[Delta Whiskey]

"Driving a 6.75 litre Rolls Royce just because you can afford it, or a 4 litre Shogun for the missus to fetch the kids from school is just plain bad manners, everyone complains about the damage to the environment but wont agree at grass root level to make cut backs, its the driver behind the wheel that burns the fuel but many are too selfish to use a smaller more economical vehicle, so what do you drive?..and is it value for money pound per mile?"

 

It's not value for money, but I totally disagree overall, I had a 4 litre Grand Cherokee, best car and most comfortable and spacious one I've had ! Used it to take all my models down the field and go skiing once a year in France. (all the other cars had to dig themselves out - while I just drove out !) Also much better having the bigger higher car, not only for visibility where you can see what's going on many car lenght in front of you, but if you have ever suffered a bad back, no crashing down into a low car seat in agony, just put your backside on the edge and swing your legs in - seats like armchairs !

 

And your forgetting, these bigger cars, we pay for not only in fuel costs, but in car tax too ! If you can afford the fuel costs and they sell the things in this country in the first place, then why not !

 

With the much better brakes and ABS and all that, it's about time they up the motorway speed limit ! (of course you'll still get the idiots whatever the speed limits !)

 

 

Edited By Delta Whiskey on 11/10/2011 14:49:19

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 11/10/2011 15:31:41

[Steve W-O]

Why should 4X4 drivers be penalised any more?

 

A 4X4 is needed for all the potholes in the roads these days.

 

Go back to the 80's and two cars I had, a Mazda rotary and a Cortina 3l V6 were both capable of over 220kmh, but to stop them in a hurry was dangerous, case of get on the white line, hit the brakes and pray you could keep it along the line. A third I had, an Audi 200, you could just slam the brakes on, and it would keep going straight, even within the loose/muddy edge of the road. (A design feature called negative offset camber, very easy, but not many cars had it)

 

The situation hasn't changed much now, some cars handle in a way that is safe at high speed, and some don't. Unfortunately, ABS systems have destroyed the ability of a car to stop quickly if driven properly, in favour of improving stopping slightly when not driven properly.

 

The other point is that people just don't adjust their driving to suit conditions, rain or fog, crowded roads, don't worry, just keep going. Snow really shows it up.

 

The question is far more complicated than just a figure of maximum speed.

 

My feeling is that on UK roads, 70mph is fast enough, until we educate our home drivers, and ban all foreign HGV drivers.

 

 

(Why are they allowed to drive here, my licences were converted, but my HGV licence was not when I returned to the UK, quite a reasonable decision, but our conditions were far more challenging than here, yet people who bought their licences in a phone booth can cross the channel and drive HGVs here)

[Terence Lynock]

What you pay extra to drive a large 4x4 is disproportionate in comparison to an Espace or larger Picasso, the thing is you are burning twice as much fuel and poluting the atmosphere twice as much and only you get the benefit.

The view from the high seat of a 4x4, great, but how about the people around you that cant see past your vehicle at corners, intersections and traffic islands?, they have to wait for you to get your tractor out of the way so they can safely manouvre, 4x4 anywhere other than doing the job for which they were designed are antisocial in my opinion and god forbid you are ever hit by one.

For normal everyday motoring, family use and even long distance travel a Picasso is far more suited and more economical than any 4x4, the amount of grannies in their 60's and 70's I see driving RAV4 and simular is ridiculous, if you have creaky joints or a bad back a Picasso type is just as usable, comfortable and acceptable than a Shogun or Warrior which to me should all line up for crushing down the council yard.

[Roger 2]

Hi All

 

What a wonderful topic !!!!!!!

 

On my left WILLY WIN

 

On my RIGHT WILLY ELL

 

Willy win ? Willy ell!

 

I am at that funny age, where I watch my fuel consumption and fuel costs.

 

I am also of the opinion that how ever you look at it, speed kills,

 

As a retired physicist no longer working on body and brain scanning, I can tell you, the patient patching up procedures are interesting to say the least. Having in the past picked bits of brains and tissue out of my scanners after a couple of patients I am qualified to say this.

 

I have got such a car it can do blah blah blah ! so I want to drive at 80/90/100 mph; fine, so long as your brain operates at these speeds not just your hormones .

 

I feel 70mph is fast enough, irrespective of the technical inovations in your new metal box.

 

As an example look at "born again bikers" who can now afford the fastest bikes around and then look at the statistics of their crashes.

 

Please note, I have made no comment on the engine size/vehicle type or driver sex .

 

Cheers

 

Roger

 

 

[David Gilder]

Everyone keeps saying "Speed Kills".....

 

I would like to throw a spanner in that!!!

 

Speed DOES NOT KILL....... Its the sudden deceleration that kills......

 

Human bodies cannot withstand the sudden gforces and the organs inside keep going and get crushed against ribs and each other..... Thats what kill!!!!!!

 

 

Dave

 

[ducks out of sight at over 100mph!]

 

 

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Ah yes, its like falling from a high building though isn't it. I mean technically its not the fall that kills you - its the hitting the ground bit. All my models are the same - their fine, right up to that moment when they hit the ground - then the trouble starts.

 

I suppose the point is that if is wasn't for the speed/fall/flight the sudden deceleration wouldn't occur would it?

 

BEB

[Steve W-O]

Posted by Terence Lynock on 11/10/2011 17:05:08:

What you pay extra to drive a large 4x4 is disproportionate in comparison to an Espace or larger Picasso, the thing is you are burning twice as much fuel and poluting the atmosphere twice as much and only you get the benefit.

The view from the high seat of a 4x4, great, but how about the people around you that cant see past your vehicle at corners, intersections and traffic islands?, they have to wait for you to get your tractor out of the way so they can safely manouvre, 4x4 anywhere other than doing the job for which they were designed are antisocial in my opinion and god forbid you are ever hit by one.

For normal everyday motoring, family use and even long distance travel a Picasso is far more suited and more economical than any 4x4, the amount of grannies in their 60's and 70's I see driving RAV4 and simular is ridiculous, if you have creaky joints or a bad back a Picasso type is just as usable, comfortable and acceptable than a Shogun or Warrior which to me should all line up for crushing down the council yard.

 

 

 

What about the flowers and railings the council put at roundabouts that block the view?

What about the bus or white van that blocks your view?

What about the overgrown hedge that blocks your view?

What about the 200 year old building someone stupidly built close to the road that blocks your view?

 

Getting silly, but the bottom line is that it is up to any driver to ensure that he drives safely, not blame the driver of another vehicle that they are making that one tiny bit harder.

 

Don't know why you chose a Picasso, but I have a Zafira that is not at all economical, but has a low tax because on the track they can drive it with low emissions. In real life I am lucky to get 30mpg, and normally around 25mpg, added to the fact that it couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.

 

Oh, and while we are talking about things that block your view, I guess if you had a Zafira, you would want the windscreen pillar cut out, as it is impossible to see a car in front of you on a roundabout without leaning to one side to see past the pillar.

 

I don't look out the back window when reversing, as I am used to reversing much larger vehicles with just the mirrors.

 

 

I joke about the Chelsea tractors and spray on mud, but I don't have negative obcession against them.

 

A Rav 4 is hardly a 4X4, it is just an SUV with drive to all wheels.

 

I think the 70mph being high enough is more to do with drivers than vehicles, or what vehicle those drivers drive.

 

If we are going to talk about pollution, all the cars in the world cause a small percentage, ships cause much more in total

[Olly Giles]

The increase to 80mph on motorways is a good idea as it brings us in line with most of the continent. Plus a good majorety of drivers do 80 on the motorway anyway so it will make little difference, aside from less motorists being booked for doing 75.

 

 

Young drivers limeted to 10%below the speed limit? HA!!!!!!!!!! Are any 17 year old lads going to drive past a 30 sign and do mental arithmatic to work out that they should be doing 27? And how on earth would you police it? The stupidest idea ever.

 

 

And Terrence stop having a go at 4x4's. The fact of the matter is that they are no better or worse than any other car on the road. They are just cars where all 4 wheels go round. The only reason why anyone would have a moan about 4x4's is that they are jelous of the people who have worked hard to buy one.

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

The speed limit here is 120kms on the motorway

I drive a V70 2.4 and choose to stick to 100/110 for economy

nobody forces me to drive at 120km.

[Roger 2]

HI All

 

I still maintain that the 70mph max is enough,

 

The type of car I feel is not an issue, any so called jealousy over whether or not, size matters is again not an issue . (Where have I heard that before ????)

 

As I understand it, on the motorways the limit is 70mph and the usual leeway is 5% + 1mph giving ~ 74.5 mph before the courts would take any action. Just calculate the reaction time and distance travelled for say a middle aged person at this speed.

 

The very rapid deceleration in the last 1 inch ( is what we have been told on this forum does the damage) will make enough strawberry jam to have spoiled my day in my earlier occupation. Ask someone like Rob from one of the earlier posts what it's like at the messy side of things.

 

I cannot understand the need for greater speed, the only conclusion I can make is the : ..."no one is telling me what to do scenario.

 

Cheers

 

Roger

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

That's the answer then - abolish speed limits and let drivers decide what speed is reasonable and end accidents at a stroke!

[Alan Cantwell]

It does seem strange, i drive what my father would class as a racing car, it has abs brakes, track control system, 6 speed gearbox, a turbo, more brake horse than any other car he has owned, a safety cell, that means an impact wont put the engine in my lap,, and most of all, impact air bags, its safety on 4 wheels, and, it has to have, every year, a test to make sure this all works, yet here i am, governed on motorway speeds, at the same he had when he drove his FORD ANGLIA!!!!!! i say again, and i do a LOT of motorway driving, its the folk who drive UNDER the limit that cause the brakes to come on, not the 80 mph jockeys, do me a favour, if you see a maroon mondeo coming up in your rear view mirror, just curse, and GET THE HECK OUT THE WAY!! some of us have places to go,

[Bob Moore]

I confess I haven't read the whole thread, but my first thought when I heard the idea was, with a 70 limit, police accept a reasonable 80. I think the danger will be an 80 limit will mean an accceptable 90?

 

If lane discipline was as it is in Germany that might be ok. But in the UK? No thanks.

 

I was in a Oz a few years ago (around Sydney anyway) A 30 limit meant a 30 limit. I was done for 33 mph?

[Pete B]

That's a very disturbing post you've made there, Alan, if I may say.

 

You make a number of relevant points about the improvement in car design and performance but also seem to emphasise those relating to your own personal safety.

 

That's all very well but you have to remember you are sharing the road with other road users and those roads have become more and more congested over the years.

 

Haven't you considered the effect of the impact of your car on other road users - a motor-cyclist, perhaps?

 

Say what you like about slower drivers - and they frustrate me just as much - they are always going to be there, whether you like it or not.

 

The tone of your last comments indicates a willingness to bully other drivers and I, for one, would not like to be sharing any bit of road you might be driving upon. Counting to ten and being a bit more philosophical about having to drive on crowded roads might make you feel less frustrated.

 

I too would welcome an increase in the limit, when conditions allowed. My concern over raising the speed limit is not about the capability of the average car on the road but the ability of the drivers within those cars. There are many drivers with very bad driving habits and there are as many who are physiologically incapable of driving a car at speed.

 

When it all goes wrong, things happen very quickly between 50-70mph. Between 70-80mph plus, when it goes pear-shaped, most drivers do not have the ability to get themselves out of trouble.

 

Until drivers learn to drive according to the condition and nature of the road and the amount of traffic using it, accidents will continue to occur - and that isn't going to happen.

 

Autoroutes outside major conurbations here in France have an 81mph (130kph) limit - but they tend to be much less crowded than UK motorways. Around built-up areas, the limit is 68mph (110kph) and they tend to have similar traffic levels to UK motorways.

 

Perhaps, if the government want to adopt a speed limit based on Continental roads, they'd be better looking at 68mph?

 

Pete

 

 

[Terence Lynock]

One big problem that everyone seems to overlook it the condensing affect caused by the size of this country, we have smaller houses, narrower roads, more crowded city centres and its all down to the Uk being a small country.

France and Germany have the space to spread out and build wide flowing autoroutes and autobahns, we dont, the width of our motorways is governed by available space and we dont have a lot living in each others pockets compared with most European countries.

 

[Terence Lynock]

Alan, if I knew for certain it was you then I would adhere to the letter of the law and if you found the worst mobile road block in creation then that would be me, its the individual that thinks he has gods grace to treat everyone else like trash that causes the greatest part of the problems on todays roads, I cant really believe that you made that statement 'GET THE HECK OUT OF THE WAY!'.

Why should we?, so you can continue to break the law and put others safety at risk? NO, I would be failing in my duty as a human being and fellow traveller if I did that.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Let's keep this one amicable chaps - even if you disagree with what the other guy is saying there are polite and reasonable ways to do so. Remember everyone is entitled to their opinion - no matter how wrong it is

 

No one has stepped over the mark - yet. But the temperature is definitely rising. So just a friendly reminder at this stage.

 

BEB

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 12/10/2011 00:41:52