Tom Wright 2 Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Not a sausage Bob .I am quite happy to do this just as a hobby . He has done away with the back stay and used a big ply fillet instead . Martin has certainly got a lot of Autogyro interest going over there,so hope he does well . Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Bob, The man that should benifit from all of this is an American gent by the name of Jim Baxter, he put a huge amount of time into model autogyros back in the 90's. He designed a model called the suitcase Minnie He was asked by a company called LA if they could use his design to create kits, in return he was to have a batch for his research. The kit is available today and is called the LA rotor shape (robot birds sell it), of course Jim never did get a kit which is really bad I think. Jim made a website and it was the best site around at the time when I started playing with these things myself. Unfortunately I dont think Jim plays with these things anymore which is a shame. I am sure the Crane Fly was influenced heavily by the Rotor shape, but I believe it is simpler and far better and without a doubt cheaper making it an excellent first timer. And with Toms work has evolved my Fire Fly which is very obvious, they are all slightly different but based on the Minnie primarily. Good on you Tom Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 I don't think the Rotor Shape did not do justice to Jim's original design ,and It is a great shame that Jim was treated so badly .. The Rotor Shape IMO is to small to be truly practical as a first Autogyro ,but similar formats scaled up ,and in a light weight format can be practical and docile if set up and flown correctly .As Rich suggests, the Crane Fly , was inspired by the RS but goes a long way to solve the problem of expensive materials, and achieving a resilient air frame, that is also very simple to repair .But good looking it aint! Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Bertram Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I see Aerobalsa are still selling the plans and well done to the both of you (Tom and Rich). You certainly seem to have fired up a lot of enthusiasm. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 thanks to tom wright 2 and young rich harris..... and the forum/greenacre's do......i've been inspired to have a go.......i think that the biggest stumbling block in the past has been the tech side......which appears to have been perfected/simplified.....making it a bit easier to understand...that combined with the ready avalable materials....all add up to having a go..... ken anderson ne..1..... simplified dept...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 Thanks Bob . Ken..... Using ready made head and blades goes a long way towards removing the shrouds of mystery .....However if the new Autogyro pilot still has his fixed wing hat on ,then early attempts can be disappointing . Initial success is just a matter of sticking to some simple rules .More to follow on this subject later as the weather is spot on for flying . Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin 10 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Hi Tom, Yes ,I had four kits cut which was given away for free to try and get more intrest in autogyros. The kits were supplied with HK heads and blades. I am stil waiting for feedback from these guys. l am the only one at this stage with a flying "Mozzie". The idea is to supply a complete gyro with motor, esc, blades and all the other bits at cost but with the Auto-G and the bad Dollar/Rand it becomes impossible to do such a project. Regards, Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 Hi All I started building another Crane Fly yesterday finished it this morning and flew it this afternoon ( I know bragging again ) . Using the HK head and blades not only simplifies set up , it makes the build really fast , and ensures repeatability when suggesting to builders how to trim and achieve first flights. So if the model has been built as per the PDF build blog ,and the HK blades have been correctly wedged ( more on that later) it;s then just a matter of setting head trim and control deflections ,and picking a suitable day ,which for me would be a steady light breeze of 3-6 mph . On arriving at the field the very first thing to do is take off your "fixed wing hat" stop and think about the following. Check the launch direction will not be into the sun. Check the true wind direction Check no by standers are close enough to represent a danger. Check the rotors spin up and start "singing " with no more than a slow walk forward. Check ,with the rotors singing ,that the model is not tending to pull left or right Now before launching consider what sort of surface is the model likely to hit if things go wrong .If at all possible the first launch should be over soft long grass ,this is much more likely to allow another attempt without damage, particularly if the throttle is shut promptly! before ground contact. Also remind your self that if a reasonable climb out is achieved, the throttle should be soon be reduced until the air speed is quite low ,trim back as necessary and immediately plan the first turn which should only require a small roll stick movement coordinated with a good dose of back rotor ( the Crane Fly should be very docile in pitch) .Near flat turns can be achieved by gauging the roll control stick input. Do not ! extend the downwind leg ,or hesitate to keep the model reasonably close in ,other wise disorientation could catch you out .If you are flying on the sticks due to out of trim condition trim keep reducing throttle until the model lands ,and adjust trim as required. Last of all, do not attempt a launch unless you are quite certain that the rotors are up to speed . Well that's what worked for me and I have since had many happy hours flying the Crane Fly . Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 Martin Hi. Thanks for posting and up dating us on the kit . The Mossie looks to be a well thought out and nicely presented ,with all the panels interlocking . Would it be possible to talk about getting a copy of the programme disc ? and do let us know how the trial run builders get on . Regards Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 This motor is a good all rounder for the Crane Fly Tom.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 The Hand Launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 Posted by Tom Wright 2 on 20/11/2012 18:13:41: The condensed Crane Fly Build Blog is available free of charge to any intermediate RC pilot wanting to try an Autogyro .Just PM your e mail address to me to receive in PDF. Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 The two videos above show how the blades are allowed to run up taking things nice and easy ,and waiting to hear the "singing" sound from the rotor ,at that stage you can feel the model trying to lift so it's a good opportunity to check if it's tending to roll left or right .If all seems well apply enough power to get the model away and then aim for a short climb to trim if required ,reduce the power and as shown, keep the model reasonably close in at a slow to moderate speed . Make the turns gentle using back stick to to keep the nose up . Always be aware of the prop and rotors as you achieve spin up and launch, develop an unhurried technique to allow time to think safety. Never hold the model level with the side of your head for obvious reasons. Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 Took the MK2 Crane Fly to the field today ,with the HK C 30 head and blades fitted .The weather was cold damp and very calm,with the mist and fog only just lifted enough for a flight. The main objective was to access blade spin up in these conditions ,as previous flights had the benefit of a little wind. Well ....no problem at all a leisurely walk forward did the trick ,and off she went with no trouble at all, the conditions were so good that hands off flying in circles was achieved. It was a really enjoyable session with no issues to report. The Crane Fly as flown today. Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 OK Here is the set up for the PDF build blog MK 2 Crane Fly with the HK head and blades fitted. Motor ESC 30A . Prop 8x4 . Delta plate 0.8 mm thick Glass Fibre sheet ,with 4.5 inch sides . Rotors boted to plate 20 mm in from the apex. Control Rod clevis positioned 12 mm from servo arm centre screw. Tx rates 100 % no expo. Head Roll trim 2.5 - 3 degrees right LOOKING FROM THE FRONT. Head Pitch trim 10 degrees back. Hang angle 15 degrees with 1.8A Lipo positioned 3 inches back from fire wall ( not critical ) Tom. Edited By Tom Wright 2 on 24/11/2012 16:24:14 Edited By Tom Wright 2 on 24/11/2012 16:25:32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm - coolwind.co.uk Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Tom, Thanks for the setup detail, I've ordered some C30's to give them ago, Did you mention something about having to shim the C30 blades to give -ve pitch ? If so you may want to edit the setting into the above post Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 Hi Malcolm. I got the prop size wrong as my motor is as above, but a higher KV .Did not post the shim detail as I originally used velcro and have tonight changed it for 1/64 ply ,and wanted to test fly before suggesting the final solution. All the rest is correct though. Just in case you noticed the none standard part at the bottom of the fire wall ......This is a clamp assembly that allows the undercarriage to be made in two separate pieces ,and removable for transport or easy storage. Tom. Edited By Tom Wright 2 on 24/11/2012 23:21:51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Tom, For a second then I thought you were mounting your blades with velcro! Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Harris Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Tom, For a second then I thought you were mounting your blades with velcro! Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 Errr ....No Rich, but some one did suggest it a while back . Just used it for the shims , for a quick try when I first got the blades . It's flown well ever since but not an ideal material due to the squash factor .Have to test fly the 1/64 ply shims now ,even they look a little to much . Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 hello tom-i have now got the keda motor from GS installed ....really just little fiddley bits to do......i'll wait until you've checked out the 1/64 shims before i set up my blades............ ken anderson ne..1 ....fiddley bits dept.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 Hi Ken ,Do check the grub screw that retains the shaft at the front of the Keda motor , it has a habit of coming loose and stripping the thread . This is usually noticed as a loss of power as the shaft slips . If you have a small scrap of 1/64 ply remove a 3mm wide strip of film from the pad under each blade root and glue on the ply strips to give each blade a small negative incidence relative to the delta plate . Just done a back garden test ,and they run up just fine but will try now at the field to see how the lift is . Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 Just returned from the field ...... conditions were wild!..... to say the least .... 18 gusting 25 + MPH . Clearly not the situation to do assessments ,but the Crane Fly battled the elements without to much trouble .I managed two hand launches and two ROGs all with successful landings ,and came away before the luck ran out . I can only say she ran up and flew fine , but will need to try again when decent conditions prevail. Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 25MPH + tom......poor crane fly-------it'll be glad to get back to terra firma.........how was it comming up into the wind? ... ken anderson ne..1...... 25mph dept... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wright 2 Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 Managed 10mph ground speed at full throttle Ken , but not to be recommended as one mistake low down could be destructive even for a Crane Fly . . Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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