Encouraging young people

[Erfolg]

I do not think that any one has a problem with parents leaving their youngsters with a club as a baby sitting service. The problem is that the club or individuals and probably the parents have committed some offence, I think. Our club decided that we were not prepared to be vetted, for a whole variety of reasons. We settled on parents must be present with their children and this is made clear to any parent.

I think the common experience is that youngsters do not generally continue the hobby without interruption. Reflecting on recent experiencing, we do see a continuos small number of youngsters, coming and going.

I think the big difference today is youngsters no longer build and or just fly models as peer experiences. I am rather ashamed on reflection, that I was one of the people who was annoyed when a couple of youngsters were racing about a IC car in the park, which is behind my house. After watching, I returned home and said to my wife, "kids these days, they are so selfish, racing about in such a way that children could have been hurt". Which was true, as many had gathered to watch. But so killjoy and H&S orientated.

WE all can see and are aware of the options available to youngsters today, that is probably why not as many are coming forward into modelling today.

I strongly feel that you have to cut youngsters some slack with respect to testing and supervision etc.

I know we all seem to have an evangelical desire to get as many people into our hobby as possible, I am not sure it should matter at a personal level. By all means be welcoming, as I hope we as a club are.

 

Edited By David Ashby - RCME on 15/11/2012 10:34:55

[Peter Beeney]

Obviously it is very much down to individual clubs how as to how they conduct their activities, but sometimes it does seem a bit difficult to comprehend. An ‘A’ certificate as a condition for joining? So presumably every member is then an experienced flyer? So no need for any training? So how would that be encouraging anyone to take up model flying?

I think all the youngsters that I’ve talked to relating to model flying have alway been interested in aviation from the start anyway. Indeed I was speaking to the mother of one of our juniors very recently, away from the strip, and she said that he really was keen on a career in the aviation industry. She was researching this, and although he’s only 14 he knows exactly what he wants to do and he’s very bright lad; I guess he’ll make it ok.

I think we’ve always engaged in the Erfolg school of flying ethics, less, (or even no, perhaps), obstacles to flying and a light guiding hand! With experience, you can exactly judge the students rate of learning and so they are able to proceed sometimes at a very rapid pace, particular youngsters. Whilst we give every incentive and encouragement to take the A and B tests, it would never ever be even implied that this is a mandatory requirement. It’s just a personal achievement level from a standard club members point of view. When a student is deemed capable he goes solo, one of the examiners would then soon be having a word and the A is most likely in the offing. The request for this most likely coming from the new pilot! It seems there is a natural desire to take and pass these tests! The juniors also have to accept their share of joshing and ribbing, but they also get the accolades when justified. Also all the senior members can be relied on to offer any help, such as the necessary bits and pieces. But that doesn’t mean the training is slapdash either, when it comes to young people and large i/c engines (and electric motors) we treat those with same respect we’d show to a bad tempered chainsaw with toothache! They’d have to watch points closely for some time, then be word prefect in describing the starting, running and tuning procedure; plus also being able answer any questions. And then be prepared to be closely scrutinised all the way until we’re quite happy they are perfectly safe. But I’ve never had any complaints about this; and again, I’ve never heard of any accidents, but that doesn’t mean they haven’t happened; unfortunately I’ve seen the results and heard all the various stories about prop accidents to realise there is no room for complacency here at all.

We decide all our rules and regulations by a total membership vote, and so I’m sure that if I suggested that everyone must have an A to be a member I think I might soon be told to what to do with my totally misguided hallucinations in a rather succinct and vigorous manner indeed.

We’ve never had any shortage of junior members, and when I next get get a chance I’ll make some inquiries as to why they decided to join our particular club. Something that I’ve not really thought about before.

I’m still not sure how you would specifically be able to ‘target‘ a group of people? A visit to a school is certainly a good idea in principle, but how difficult to organise in practice? For a start, I’m sure it would have to involve CRB type checks, and I can’t see any of our group doing that. Also the question would be ‘why’? One club member was only saying recently that he has two sons that have never shown the slightest interest in model flying.

I’m sure aeromodelling will still be around for quite a while, albeit in an ever changing fashion. But that might also be also true of living itself. It’s called progress, but as always it might be debatable whether it is for the better or worse……

PB

Edited By Peter Beeney on 15/11/2012 14:19:37

[WolstonFlyer]

Actually just as a side note:

It is very unlikely that a school will ask for a CRB check for a single visit to do a talk. You would not be having regular contact with the same group of kids or be unsupervised during a visit.

Another thing to consider.....do you have the right processes and checks in place if you have regular flyers at your club that are either children / young or vunerable adults and they are left at your field without a parent or carer present. Although I think this is why clubs say children need a perent to be with them at all times.

[Tom T]

Posted by Erfolg on 15/11/2012 10:28:50:

I think the big difference today is youngsters no longer build and or just fly models as peer experiences. I am rather ashamed on reflection, that I was one of the people who was annoyed when a couple of youngsters were racing about a IC car in the park, which is behind my house. After watching, I returned home and said to my wife, "kids these days, they are so selfish, racing about in such a way that children could have been hurt". Which was true, as many had gathered to watch. But so killjoy and H&S orientated.

WE all can see and are aware of the options available to youngsters today, that is probably why not as many are coming forward into modelling today.

I strongly feel that you have to cut youngsters some slack with respect to testing and supervision etc.

I know we all seem to have an evangelical desire to get as many people into our hobby as possible, I am not sure it should matter at a personal level. By all means be welcoming, as I hope we as a club are.

Hi Erfolg,

(sorry this probably won't be very relevant aha) This isn't directed at you, I just saw you mentioned about kids and hurting themselves........

Society is wrong, very wrong. Our generation has been given an awful label, we are seen as lazy no gooders. This is the exact reason why we are not allowed responsibility, we are not allowed freedom....The exact reason some are not allowed to look after themselves at a flying field. I am 16 and the club I am involved in allows 16 year olds to be there on their own. When my Dad was a lad and probably the same for you, he could go roaming from dawn till dusk on his horse and could come hope without a bad word said. Now a days you go out dawn till dusk on your bike and you'll have the police banging on your door asking why. I believe over protection is the biggest cause towards teenage mischief. If a child hurts themselves, burns themselves from making a magnify glass fire then they won't do it again. We learn most from our mistakes, i certainly have. For example the spitfire I mentioned about in the article.

We all want to go out and stretch our legs now and again without having your parents looking over your shoulder everytime you take a step. We need to learn social skills from all age ranges, I talk to people of all age ranges, it develops communication skills and helps you to understand the world so that you don't step into the big wide world at 18, get scared and come running home again like so many youngsters do.

I agree with you, there are so many options for kids now a days and it'll be tough but we need to shout above them, we need to promote the outdoors, especially flying. Yes I probably am taking this too personal but when you see so many kids of my age sitting behind their xboxs', burning their retinas out all day.... hmm.

If we can't promote to any more people, why don't we support the ones that are already in the hobby even more, why don't they get sponsorship to fly the big planes (if they have the potential), why aren't they offered new opportunities within the hobby? A model shop having a youngster fly for their team to promote their products..... a perfect marketing tool if you ask me and also gives the youngster an opportunity to compete.... but you can't compete in Modelling without a large expensive aircraft. For so many of us, winning a trophy in this hobby would be a dream come true but its impossible.

I am so grateful for everything people have done for me so I am certainly not complaining! I love every minute of the hobby although sometimes I wish I could fly at competitions and buy all those fancy planes you all have. Something I dream for, that will hopefully come true when I am older aha.

Please keep the posts coming, i'm really enjoying reading them!!

Tom

[Erfolg]

Tom

I know it is sad, I have a X Box 360.

[Tom T]

Posted by Erfolg on 15/11/2012 17:36:22:

Tom

I know it is sad, I have a X Box 360.

I know, same... they are addictive have you got the new black ops yet? dunno if it looks any good to be honest... this will probably get removed aha sorry for going off topic!

[Simon Chambers]

Posted by Erfolg on 15/11/2012 17:36:22:

Tom

I know it is sad, I have a X Box 360.

The best thing they're for is using the power adapter off them to power my LiPo's charger.

Even though I do game occasionally round mates and still enjoy, I decided to not buy a console or have a PC capable of playing games. That way I can't get sucked into the cycle of gaming. It's far too easy to fire up a game for "a hour" play, then find 4-6 hours have passed!

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Posted by Peter Beeney on 15/11/2012 14:17:45:

We’ve never had any shortage of junior members, and when I next get get a chance I’ll make some inquiries as to why they decided to join our particular club. Something that I’ve not really thought about before.

Might that be precisely why? If they have peers of the same age they're probably far more likely to keep coming up than if they're the only youngster in a club of old (i.e. over 25 and above!) buffers!

When I started in my late teens, after a childhood of Airfix, flying (occasionally successfully!) rubber or diesel powered freeflight models, control line and dreaming of being able to afford radio, our club had many 15 - 30 year olds - a couple of whom still contribute to this forum on occasions - and a teenager would feel quite at home. We certainly didn't consider it an old man's hobby in those days.

[Rob Jones 2]

Onr problem is the cost of CRBs!You need them if you come into contact (pun not intended) with kids under 18years.They cost about 45£, and are needed for each individual, and for each individaul activity (having one for say, swimming instructing does not cover you for foatball instruction).Lake of a CRB means 10k£ fine!

[Peter Beeney]

WolstonFlyer, - I only mentioned the CRB check because we were invited to a school recently and it soon became clear that anyone, in any respect, having any contact at all with the pupils, whether a teacher was present or not, was required to have an enhanced CRB check. So the very first step everyone will take is the check, as a matter of course. However, it’s quite possible this is just isolated to this school, and would not be required anywhere else. I’m not that familiar with the situation.

With regard to the junior checks etc., we’ve always felt we needed to act as responsibly as possible in this respect, witness a very current state of affairs progressing at the moment. So to that end I produced an application form for people under eighteen and vulnerable adults, this includes a short statement which clearly lays out the requirements of the BMFA and our club with regard to children and v/a’s. It concludes with a question asking if their parent/guardian agrees to abide by this this; which said parent/guardian duly sign as an agreement. I’m sure this is actually worthless as far as it goes, but it’s an effort to try and protect all three parties, children, parents and club members. Also to prove in any possible query that at least we have a signature to prove agreement of understanding.

I’ve never had the slightest problem getting an agreement, and I even get the impression sometimes that the parents are perhaps slightly impressed. Maybe by the lazy perspective on the surface, we talk model aeroplanes a lot, but underneath there is a more responsible attitude. Hopefully just a case of striking the right in between level. Anyway, we are all on fairly familiar terms, so I will also ask some questions relating to this.

Maybe all part of the reason why some clubs particularly are reluctant to get too involved. Certainly I feel it’s going to be a very sensitive issue in the future, and that’s the very least of it. Eventually it may become so restrictive as to severely curtail any junior’s participation, in just about anything, really. That will then be a sad step indeed.

PB

[Bernie]

I suppose funds could come in to the equation! not every one has a couple hundred pounds to get started ,I have been asked lots of times "HOW MUCH TO GET STARTED?I know 200 is not a lot to most of us but to a young person who 9 times out of 10 will be jobless these days .What's the answer I don't really know I started off going to the club and asking peaple if any one had some radio gear for sale cheap and got lucky i got a 25meg radio a model with all it's contents for £50 .but there 's not many of those about.I know in the hobby/sport it's the norm to buy good radio and engines and a (SENCIBLE TRAINER) not my words but the instructor who took me.

Edited By Bernie on 15/11/2012 18:54:51

[Concorde Speedbird]

I don't enjoy X-box, or find them addictive. Am I weird?

CS

[WolstonFlyer]

Not at all CS. The human race would be very boring if everybody liked the same thing!

[Peter Beeney]

Martin, - You may well be right, regarding the same age association, but I’m not entirely sure about it. I don’t think the juniors are particularly aware of each other beforehand.

When I was 25 - 30 at work I used to get the apprentices placed with me for a term, usually for around 6 months. Then I was often looked upon as ‘dad‘, or something similar. Now at the strip most senior members, and particularly instructors, are second generation OAP’s, but there is not the slightest sign of an age gap; there is a total understanding both ways. Again, I think we would encourage this, but maybe it’s also because there is a very common interest, too.

The apprentices were aged up to about 20, and also were aways very observant, the conversations invariably revolved around girls, pubs, girls, football, motor bikes and cars, one particularly, he could name every make or model that he saw, and remember number plates, more girls, occasionally fishing or photography and so on, often it seemed there was little or no time to mention work at all. I’ll bet this is one aspect of life that has not changed very much; and probably won’t; it’s the actual apprenticeship that is now missing, which I personally think is to be regretted.

There is a little adage that I once read, - Treat kids like adults, and adults like kids, and you will be well received. - I sometimes think there may be an element of truth in this……

PB

[Tom T]

Posted by Bernie on 15/11/2012 18:53:45:

"HOW MUCH"!

Grrrrr... you can say that again! I had my DX5E (use it with phoenix) sent off to Horizon a few months ago, got it back looking lovely and working great after I knocked it off my desk one night and broke the antenna clean off along side completely destroying the right hand (elevator, aileron) stick..... now I think something has happened to it again hmmm... the elevator twitches on the simulator. They ussually do it for free but I will pay this time because they keep doing it for me and I feel bad. See, youngsters being clumpsy means money lost that could be invested in the hobby elsewhere.... not been my year equipment wise!

Edited By Tom T on 15/11/2012 20:21:17

[Concorde Speedbird]

Thanks WF!

Sorry to hear about the 5e Tom, very good transmitter- my Grandad has one. I treat my DX6i like a baby, it is 'my precious' as they say in Lord of the Rings. Had it a year now, faultless. I'm very lucky though, the DX6i was a birthday present last year- from Dad.

CS

[Tom T]

Posted by ConcordeSpeedbird on 15/11/2012 22:27:46:

Sorry to hear about the 5e Tom, very good transmitter- my Grandad has one. I treat my DX6i like a baby, it is 'my precious' as they say in Lord of the Rings. Had it a year now, faultless. I'm very lucky though, the DX6i was a birthday present last year- from Dad.

CS

Yes, the DX6i is good, lucky you were given one, they are not cheap radios... i saved for months to buy mine! I use the DX6i for flying, they are good radios although I am having some glitches with mine recently... Indeed, I love Lord of the Rings, can't wait for the Hobbit to come out!

Off to go buy myself a copy of the December issue tommorow! Looking forward to reading the mag!

Tom

[MikeS]

Posted by Tom T on 15/11/2012 17:39:40:

Posted by Erfolg on 15/11/2012 17:36:22:

Tom

I know it is sad, I have a X Box 360.

I know, same... they are addictive have you got the new black ops yet? dunno if it looks any good to be honest... this will probably get removed aha sorry for going off topic!

 

Yep got a Xbox too. Black Ops 2 is very good by the way. However if the weather is good then my flying always comes first.

Mike

Edited By MikeS on 16/11/2012 05:10:35

[simon burch]

After reading a few posts, I seem to get the impression that people think this is a new problem? I started when I was 9 and there were no other youngters in the club. Thinking back, the age group was on average a lot higher then than the clubs I fly at now where the 35-45 age group seems to be quite big.

The hobby seems bigger now than it did 32 years ago when I started, so I can't see the problem. No one pushed me into aeromodelling, I didn't need encouraging to start building and flying models, it was something I had a passion for. The are far cheaper options available today which can be bought and flown with RC, than I had access to when I started.

There will always be a group of people who will be drawn to flying models, but at the moment BBM messaging and online gaming seem to be more popular with the majority, as well as more extreme outdoor sports. I've took a few big heli's and models into my school and as said previously, there wasa disppointing amount of interest in them (even though they are very shiney and bling !!). I'm not worried about this, you can't force people into a hobby as there are so many more opportunies to get involved in other things.

One other observation, a lot of the kids I teach are just not fascinated by flying. Some of them have been on overseas holidays every year since they were born, flying is just another mode of transport. I didn't fly until I was 13-14, and I still find watching the planes exciting.

Simon

[Andy Symons]

Posted by Rob Jones 2 on 15/11/2012 18:12:46:

Onr problem is the cost of CRBs!You need them if you come into contact (pun not intended) with kids under 18years.They cost about 45£, and are needed for each individual, and for each individaul activity (having one for say, swimming instructing does not cover you for foatball instruction).Lake of a CRB means 10k£ fine!

The BMFA have always covered the cost for CRB checks at affiliated clubs.

The CRB system has changed very recently too, It's now DBS instead of CRB (Disclosure & Barring Service) It's early days but it appears a more sensible system if it all works as they say. You will no longer need a check for each activity.

The theory behind the changes is that the individual applies for the DBS check not the company/association and the company/association who then needs to ensure the individuals checked gets the certificate from the individual and can check online if there are any changes to the certificate since it was issued. Therfore only one DBS check required for multiple activities. There is also some changes (relaxation possibly) in what is regulated activitiy too. The repurcussions are still being investigated but in gneral it should be a more comon sense approach.

 

Having said that the old system, certainly for BMFA clubs wasn't at all onerous, fairly straightforward and free, I could never really understand anyones particulary objections.

Edited By Andy Symons on 16/11/2012 09:14:17

Edited By Andy Symons on 16/11/2012 09:14:36

[Ernie]

Some time ago, I befriended a young lad. I took him and one of his mates flying, gave them a wee try of an old junior 60. I let him use my shed, and generally gave bags of encouragement. It seemed like a great idea, it was like having a young apprentice, he learned a lot, and I had some help.

The little sod thanked me by breaking into my shed, stealing my Fokker DV11, and a bundle of tools and engines. I suppose he must of been a wee bit grateful, 'cos he didn't take my Laser150

It's the kids who should be certified

ernie

[Tom T]

Posted by Ernie on 16/11/2012 09:34:06:

Some time ago, I befriended a young lad. I took him and one of his mates flying, gave them a wee try of an old junior 60. I let him use my shed, and generally gave bags of encouragement. It seemed like a great idea, it was like having a young apprentice, he learned a lot, and I had some help.

The little sod thanked me by breaking into my shed, stealing my Fokker DV11, and a bundle of tools and engines. I suppose he must of been a wee bit grateful, 'cos he didn't take my Laser150

It's the kids who should be certified

ernie

Hmmm that is very unfortunate! we are not all like that, I wouldn't dream of doing that to anyone let alone the helpful people at the club. That is just awful! People like that are the people who give us a bad label. Did you catch them? Hope you gave them a right old ear full if you did!

On another note, thank you very much to Mr Ashby and co for the motor, esc and programming card! Can't wait to put them in the build!!

[Ernie]

Hi Tom, Of course you're not all like that. I've had some great flying with your generation, and some pretty awful ones with the wrinklies.

Yes, I did catch him, I got the Fokker, but, alas, the rest is gone for ever.

ernie

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

[Tom T]

Posted by Ernie on 17/11/2012 09:06:55:

Hi Tom, Of course you're not all like that. I've had some great flying with your generation, and some pretty awful ones with the wrinklies.

Yes, I did catch him, I got the Fokker, but, alas, the rest is gone for ever.

ernie

I am glad you caught them! You should of made them 'go swim with deh fishies' :D I hope they learnt there lesson from that! You may have done a good thing.. taught them the right and wrong, you could now be there hero!