paul duguid Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Hi all, Does anyone know ways around (or exceptions to) the 28 days rule. Therefore, allowing a club to use the same site for more than 28 days per year? The land in question is currently agricultural, with only the one club operating from it currently every other week. Ideally would like to be able to legally use it more. Many thanks for any help, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bennett Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 What 28-day rule? Is that how many days you can fly without going to the bother of getting Planning Permission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul duguid Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 Hi, Yes, it allows temporary change of use for the land i.e. to operate a club from agricultural land for 28 days per year. I am interested if there is a legal way to extend this without seeking planning permission and permenant change of use. I assume most flying clubs that operate, for example, every week from rented land will have this issue, or a way around it? Thanks, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolstonFlyer Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Basically the 28 day rule, relates to "Change of use of land" under planning regulations.Any piece of land may be used for any purpose that it is not designated as, for 28 days (or part days thereof) in any one year.Thus, for example, a piece of land designated as part of an "Agricultural Holding" could be used for 10 car boots, 10 motocross, 4 horse jumping events and 3 football matches and a 1 day Scout Camp site in any 1 year.It is probably best to talk to your local planning office for advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightflyer Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 If anyone does know of a successful and legal way of circumventing this rule I would love to know. In my experience it has been the cause of much grief to a number of clubs activities and sadly two clubs I belonged to lost their site in the end off the back of this. One field had only had a confirmed 9 years use (it had been used for more but not by the club) outside the 28 day rule. Otherwise that if you do operate outside the 28 day rule hope that it has been so for a period of 10 years or more (which can be confirmed). The other way round this is to have a friendly landlord who has a second field which you can fly from once the 28 days has expired on the first field. This was how another club got round the problem. The club concerned later got round the issue by highlighting the fact that they had been flying from the field for some 15 years and thus planning permission was granted (they were fortunate that the council forgot to check whether the period was or was not in excess of 28 days a year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKade Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Have the clubs in question actually tried to apply for planning permission? Occasional the local planning office approve applications.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The local authority will not only look into the noise aspect, but also be aware that they will be assessing the site from the point of view of access,(how do you get into and out of the field) road congestion, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I think you should talk to the BMFA who are dealing with this sort of issue all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKade Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Speaking as someone who deals with planning departments, if a application is made with supporting evidence it may not be that big a deal. Yes planning departments consider lots of issues, noise and road conjestion, among other things, however if you can show and demonstrate that there would be a noise limit in place, the site would be used at specific times only, is X metres from the nearest home, and that traffic woulnt be affected as its accesed from down a lane at weekends.....but yep im sure the bmfa would be able to support and give evidence to accompany any application. Im sure a change of use could be applied for for a particular amount of time! A trial period. After which a new longer change of use could be applied for? If there were no complaints or incidences... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu knowles Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I'm sure that there are many clubs and groups flying off land without the benefit of planning permission. In fact I know of one who rents the land from the council and has done so since 1995 and yet has no planning permission. It was discussed at the outset with the peole who arranged the lease and the advice was, just get on with what you are doing, don't go for planning permission unless someone else raises it. In retrospect, that was good advice. There's nothing to stop you setting up a flying group anywhere, If no-one objects, carry on. If you do get complaints, most likely these will be about noise. The lack of PP may well be one of the tools used to shut you down but the odd thing is that if you HAVE planning permission, it will not protect you from complaints nor will it keep you flying in the face of noise complaints. stu k Edited By stu knowles on 13/01/2013 11:20:28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Having seen a young man flying an ic helicopter on a piece of waste ground next to a supermarket carpark with people and cars all around the other day.... Oh... and an electricity pylon... You might have thought that local authorities would have been keen to see that there are places where people can fly safely and sensibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben B Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Surely an answer would be to divide the field into lots of smaller fields, sell them off (as above) and move the take-off / landing strip every other week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKade Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Stu, very true, if there is an agreement in place with the landlord, and theres no complaints.. Why bother ..."......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Posted by GrahamC on 13/01/2013 11:23:41: Having seen a young man flying an ic helicopter on a piece of waste ground next to a supermarket carpark with people and cars all around the other day.... Oh... and an electricity pylon... You might have thought that local authorities would have been keen to see that there are places where people can fly safely and sensibly. As far as I know Councils have a duty to provide facilities for all recognised "sports" - I think this is one of the reasons that BMFA went to such lengths to have R/C Flying classed as a sport by the Sports Council. A decision that, at the time, seems to me to be biziare - but behind which there was, I suspect, much wisdom and cunning! I agree with Stu. We fly off council land - for which arrangement we have a lease and have done for nearly 50 years. But as far as I know there was never any planning permission. But maybe that was because it is a public park, use of which for sports purposes would not be seen as a "change of use" - so again the wisdom of having R/C flying classed as sport comes to light maybe? BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul duguid Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Thank you! There is some food for thought there. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Austin 1 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Not sure how long it is now but one way is to go for "A Certificate of Use" You have to prove you have used the site for model flying for I think it was 10 years but this may have changed. The club I used to be in did that having flown there for 20+ years with out PP and got it through. Less rulles attached to C of Use The Chelmsford Club had a problem with PP having been granted it By Chelmsford Council for a year, they wanted to withdraw it and the club appealed to the DoE who sent down an inspector who overuled the council and granted extended flying times over the original PP. It helps having someone who knows the ropes as they did at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bennett Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 A few years ago we had a visit to our site by the local council's environmental people, following a noise complaint (which wasn't upheld). During our discussion we were asked if we had planning permission and, when we said we'd been flying there for 25+ years, the official quickly said we have "deemed" planning permission (or some such phrase) because we'd been using the site regularly for more than a certain number of years. Possibly this is the Certificate of Use mentioned by Brian Austin above, though we don't have any paperwork, and the council official didn't think it was worth the bother for us to apply for any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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