Joining a Club, how hard can it be?

[SkippyUK]

I’m in the process of moving house some 120 miles up country and wanted to share my experiences of trying to join one or two flying clubs in the area I’m moving into to maybe highlight some of the difficulties newcomers might face.

I’m quite a confident sort of bloke in my fifties with a lot of experience of flying but here’s a taste of my recent experiences.

1. Look on BMFA website and map to find some clubs in approximate area – seems like there’s loads of clubs
2. Go to websites of clubs - some clubs do not state where they fly and just give contact details so I contact some of them.
3. Some clubs have monthly meetings at a local pub so I go to the meetings to see what the club is like and if it does the kind of things that I like.
   I can hold my own in discussions and feel comfortable so it’s refreshing to meet new pilots but less confident people might be daunted.
4. Clubs send information packs which include getting proposers and seconders and suggests going to flying site and getting to know people to get signatures.
   Recent weather has been so bad that nobody seems to be at suggested locations (don’t blame them!) so meeting people is proving difficult.
5. Contact club contacts and ask how I can contact any people to arrange meeting them at flying site – poor response as they won’t give out personal information (quite right but if you don’t ask!) and don’t seem eager to contact them on my behalf or give my details out to them with my express permission – these are busy people so I don’t really blame them, they don’t know me from Adam and past bad experiences and time wasters may play a part.

 

Result – I’ve met a lot of very interesting flying folk in the new area and am sending the monies etc. off to maybe 2 clubs in the area to join after seeing their flying sites (even with no planes flying) and meeting some club members.

However, if I was 30 years younger and new to flying and just got my first RTF model as a present (or my son/daughter has), would I persevere with this not really knowing what I would get for the effort and the joining fees which may be as much as the model cost?.

I’d probably end up going to a field with an RTF plane and coming back with a bag of bits…..

I fully support the advice that the best solution is to join a club and I really am in no way berating any of the clubs or their processes but just wanted to share the effort I have had to put into joining a club in a new area as I suspect few of you on the forum have had to go through this recently.

Skippy - on the move.

Edited By SkippyUK on 31/05/2013 10:23:36

[Greybeard]

I agree that it can be difficult as I experienced similar difficulties when I returned to the sport last year however perseverance has paid off and I now feel settled in a friendly club, but it has taken longer than it should.

I guess perhaps part of the problem is that most clubs don’t actually want more members because of capacity limits and would like to hear others views on that.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[SkippyUK]

Percy Verance, I wasn't complaining about the lengths I've gone to or the responces I've got from the clubs but more highlighting what can happen when the weather and other things conspire against a newcomer trying to follow our advice.

We quite rightly recommend joining a club to pursue our hobby but sometimes post in a way that makes it a trivial matter when in the real world, it might not be that easy.

I was always going to join a club or two and would not let this put me off in any way.

I haven't changed my profile as I haven't moved house yet and don't want to make any clubs where I've visited feel at all uneasy.

I've also started another thread in the beginners offering hands-on help to 'lone flyers' who may not have access to a club for whatever reason.

Skippy

[SkippyUK]

Well all sorted now

Perseverance paid off and I've been to 3 different club nights and visited 4 flying fields and signed on the dotted line for 2 clubs giving me 6 different flying sites depending on the weather and wind direction.

Met some great friendly people and can't wait to see the different planes being flown - wonder what they'll make of my superman, flying Shark and Father Xmas!!!.

Skippy

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I agree with you Skippy - it can be a challenge for new members. I am one of the two people who handle the applications at my club - we are currently 57 members and have in the past been close to 100, so at the moment we are happy to accept new members. What's the process like with us?

The email addresses of all committee members are on the home page of the website - as is a link to a membership application form. Applicants are advised to complete the form and email it to the secretary. No proposers or seconders are asked for. On the home page there are also links to a google maps view showing the location of our flying field - although many applicants already know this because we fly in public park and they've usually seen us!

That form then goes to a committee meeting were it is considered. The club does reserve the right to refuse membership, but it would only do so on very extreme grounds and I can't think of a single insistance when it has. So, the approved form comes to me as treasurer and mambership sec. I email the applicant and inform them that their application has been sucessful and remind them of the membership fee and what that covers. Details on the membership fees are on the website as well.

Once I get their cheque they're in and free to fly. I'm pretty convinced that this bit works very well. 99% of applications are dealt within 2-3 weeks max from reciept to decision. Many less than that.

Its at this point I think that some potential problems raise their head. If the person concerned is an established flyer there's usually no problem. But if they are a beginner there is a hurdle to oovercome here. Don't get me wrong the club I belong to is full of very friendly guys. But you know how it is - there's a sort of unwritten rule that its really down to the "new boy" to introduce himself, say hello, get chatting etc. Then he'll make loads of new friends. He wont be short of instructors happy to take him up etc. etc. So if he's a guy like you describe yourself as being - confident, articulate, open and friendly he'll fit in fine. In a couple of weeks it will seem like he's always been there.

But,...what about the ones that are a bit shy? I've seen guys come down to the field and just stand in the corner so to speak. They approach no one, speak to no one. Eventually of course someone goes over and trys to make contact. Sometimes it goes well - and once they know one person that person introduces them to others and so on. But sometimes - to be honest - it doesn't go well. They seem to find it really difficult. Is that us? Or is it them? I don't know.

I do know that a flying club is at least in part a social organisation. Maybe some people just aren't the clubable type? And no matter how hard you work to make them welcome they are just not prepared, or able, to make the matching effort themselves as well - it takes two to tango! I agree the onus has to be on the club to make the first approach and make someone feel welcome - but it isn't always reciprocated. Relationships are a two way street!

I know this isn't really the original point you were making. But I suppose my point is that even in a well run friendly club were applications are dealt with speedly and efficiently it sometimes all falls apart at the next hurdle! I don't offer any magic solutions to this - it could very well be that there is no solution - but it is something I think we as club members need to think about and be constantly asking ourselves "are we doing everything reasonable to make new members feel welcome here?"

BEB

[Rich too]

Exactly! BEB's last comment took the words out of my mouth - clubs (and some vendors I could mention) may THINK they are welcoming, but that may be far from the reality...I've been a member of two clubs and felt like a stranger at both........Rich

[Greybeard]

I think that what should happen is that a club member should be appointed as mentor for a couple of months to the new comer tasked with ensuring that introductions are made and rules explained, but not necessarily able to offer flight training. After that period the new member should be settled and able to help with someone else.

[Modonaut]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 04/06/2013 19:50:43:

I agree with you Skippy - it can be a challenge for new members. I am one of the two people who handle the applications at my club - we are currently 57 members and have in the past been close to 100, so at the moment we are happy to accept new members. What's the process like with us?

The email addresses of all committee members are on the home page of the website - as is a link to a membership application form. Applicants are advised to complete the form and email it to the secretary. No proposers or seconders are asked for. On the home page there are also links to a google maps view showing the location of our flying field - although many applicants already know this because we fly in public park and they've usually seen us!

That form then goes to a committee meeting were it is considered. The club does reserve the right to refuse membership, but it would only do so on very extreme grounds and I can't think of a single insistance when it has. So, the approved form comes to me as treasurer and mambership sec. I email the applicant and inform them that their application has been sucessful and remind them of the membership fee and what that covers. Details on the membership fees are on the website as well.

Once I get their cheque they're in and free to fly. I'm pretty convinced that this bit works very well. 99% of applications are dealt within 2-3 weeks max from reciept to decision. Many less than that.

Its at this point I think that some potential problems raise their head. If the person concerned is an established flyer there's usually no problem. But if they are a beginner there is a hurdle to oovercome here. Don't get me wrong the club I belong to is full of very friendly guys. But you know how it is - there's a sort of unwritten rule that its really down to the "new boy" to introduce himself, say hello, get chatting etc. Then he'll make loads of new friends. He wont be short of instructors happy to take him up etc. etc. So if he's a guy like you describe yourself as being - confident, articulate, open and friendly he'll fit in fine. In a couple of weeks it will seem like he's always been there.

But,...what about the ones that are a bit shy? I've seen guys come down to the field and just stand in the corner so to speak. They approach no one, speak to no one. Eventually of course someone goes over and trys to make contact. Sometimes it goes well - and once they know one person that person introduces them to others and so on. But sometimes - to be honest - it doesn't go well. They seem to find it really difficult. Is that us? Or is it them? I don't know.

I do know that a flying club is at least in part a social organisation. Maybe some people just aren't the clubable type? And no matter how hard you work to make them welcome they are just not prepared, or able, to make the matching effort themselves as well - it takes two to tango! I agree the onus has to be on the club to make the first approach and make someone feel welcome - but it isn't always reciprocated. Relationships are a two way street!

I know this isn't really the original point you were making. But I suppose my point is that even in a well run friendly club were applications are dealt with speedly and efficiently it sometimes all falls apart at the next hurdle! I don't offer any magic solutions to this - it could very well be that there is no solution - but it is something I think we as club members need to think about and be constantly asking ourselves "are we doing everything reasonable to make new members feel welcome here?"

BEB

I think maybe model flyers are perhaps a bit introverted and possibly there is an initial period of 'male' weighing up of strangers to see if they are a 'threat'. Women tend to mix and make 'friends' quicker than men. Also, dare I suggest that some flyers are a bit 'odd' or somehow different and this introduces some sort of a hurdle to overcome before relationships develop. Luckily there is a common bond of interest that overcomes such possible differences that may exist. I think in every situation where a new member appears, at a club or at your place of work there is inevitably a weighing up period usually lasting until the established members have been able to size you up- ie are you a total pratt or are you going to fit in.

[Lee Smalley]

I think clubs also need to be careful of getting the wrong people in the club, the wrong personality in the club can cause much damage and make it a very uncomfortable place to go to.

[Martin Harris - Moderator]

Although not an exact science, we have adopted a policy of asking prospective members to come to the club field so that we can meet them before accepting (or indeed supplying) an application form.

This is designed to work both ways. In addition to us getting a feel for the individual and whether they seem likely to fit in, it gives them a chance to check their expectations of what we can provide them.

Sadly, in the past, we've had some people much like BEB has described. They range from the genuinely shy, who I'd like to think we have always tried hard to include, to the odd individual who takes the attitude that having paid his club dues, is entitled to an instructor and/or ground crew to attend to his every (often psychically transmitted) whim and desire.

I think that there are some people who don't appreciate that a club is just that and not a commercial venture to cater for paying customers. It's amazing how those that put the most into a club also seem to be the ones who get the most out of it!

[Greybeard]

Posted by Martin Harris on 05/06/2013 09:51:29:

SNIP!

It's amazing how those that put the most into a club also seem to be the ones who get the most out of it!

Good point, it applies to most aspects of community living but does seem to be a lesson rarely learned or indeed taught.

[Bearair]

Posted by Lee Smalley on 05/06/2013 09:36:02:
I think clubs also need to be careful of getting the wrong people in the club, the wrong personality in the club can cause much damage and make it a very uncomfortable place to go to.

Wow, I hope in this day and age, clubs that feel they can discriminate on the type of person they allow into the club have got some pretty robust terms of reference, or I fear they may well find themselves heading to court at sometime.

IMHO clubs should be more up front about what they do and do not offer. Also make sure that the rule book is given to the applicant and he reads and understands those rules. If he will be expected to attend for instance "working weekends" for site maintenance then tell them so when joining. If I join a club then it really is for the facilities the club offers. If I fit in to the social side (and I nearly always have) then that is a bonus. Aside from the rules make sure you understand the social etiquette of the club. It can vary widely, from no swearing or smoking to one infamous club who disapproved of my taking my girlfriend to the site " we come flying to get away from our wives" the secretary told me. Perhaps my reaction of giving him a kiss on his forehead and saying "oh ron I didn't realise it was THAT sort of club" was ill advised, he was not amused at all!. But I didn't renew my membership. I have been in other clubs where being told to go forth and multiply was considered a friendly greeting amongst mates, but I dread to think what a shy introvert must of thought of us.

So as a club. try to present an honest idea of what your clubs like, warts and all!

[SkippyUK]

Posted by Bearair on 05/06/2013 10:51:09:

Posted by Lee Smalley on 05/06/2013 09:36:02:
I think clubs also need to be careful of getting the wrong people in the club, the wrong personality in the club can cause much damage and make it a very uncomfortable place to go to.

Wow, I hope in this day and age, clubs that feel they can discriminate on the type of person they allow into the club have got some pretty robust terms of reference, or I fear they may well find themselves heading to court at sometime.

I think (hope) Lee was referring to the types like those expelled from a certain large club in Essex who glorified crashes (some deliberate) and the resulting bonfires and posted them on YouTube - we could do without these types doing it in the name of a club.

We can't stop these people getting their kicks out of this kind of thing but surely not in the name of a flying club affiliated to the BMFA.

Skippy

Edited By SkippyUK on 05/06/2013 11:40:15

[bouncebounce crunch]

My opinion will stand at this on joining a club.

If a modeller is willing to abide by the club rules (and some are very strict from what i have read over the years), willing to give a hand around the field, be positive and safety minded then they should be encouraged to join.

If a newcomer asks to join said club, then a few buddy box flights or similar can give him clearance and aknowlege his competency, then all the better for club and newcomer to move forward.

There will be modellers, like me, that sometimes just want to fly alone at times but in need of the flying environment that is safe for models and away from the unsurity and insecurity of a park.

After all the positive or negatives, the enjoyment of flying is the part of a Flying club i want to be part of.

lastly there may be other clubs that you can join but try and fit in as best you can ,there may just be a modeller that enjoys the same as you and was waiting for a modeller like you to join.

shoot me down. bbc

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Bearair]

What I do not understand Percy is how the sort of person you describe ever get into an elected office?

Ive seen a few over they years and if you give them a bit of what they think is power they can wreck a club very quickly.

[SkippyUK]

Bearair, I've seen this in all sorts of 'voluntary' clubs as well as paid posts.

How many people in your club contest the comitee posts at your AGM?

If it's a good vibrant club then maybe you will have to work to be elected, if not then it might be that the only person that volenteers or is proposed gets the job and it's a few small stepping stones to the chairman.

Nobody wants to opose it for fear of recriminations....

Happens in politics and local government (i,e, parish councils and school governors) as well.

Skippy

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Iain Hale]

I too have recently moved home to a location 200 miles away. Finding a local flying club not a problem. Trying to get up to date contact information almost impossible. Even contacting the BMFA their information was out of date.

Club website only provided an e-mail link to contact them. I was informed retrospectively that that link/contact didn't respond he was to busy or the day job was taking up time away from home.

As recalled in many other posts here it behoves clubs to take a look at themselves as new or potential new members see them on first approach before touch down.

[John F]

It is a shame that club admins don’t update their website or contact details.

What you could do, to absolutely guarantee that a member of the club contacts you, is to drive to their flying site and start flying.

You’ll quickly meet some of their members and also get a low down of their rules there and then!

[Peter Miller]

We have a very small club, limted to 15 members because of the land owner's restrictions on parking.

We can be contacted quite easily.

We ask prospective members to come along to four flying sessions with a modle if they want. THis allows both parties to see hwo the other suits them. Because of this we have a very friendly group with no Cliques, personality clashes or similer problems.

WE have had the odd member who didn't fit in, mainly because they changed over the years.

The system works well..

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[Bandit]

A club is just a bunch of people who get together to do the same stuff.

There are going to be personalities that come with people.

I think expecting a level of service is where people go wrong, be thick skinned, there is one or two in every club.

[Mouse]

As a very new flyer (less than six months) I feel there is something I would like to add to this and that is the subject of membership fees.

After looking at several clubs near me I found one that I wanted to join, however I am unable to at the moment because there fees run from January to January at a total cost of £112 per year, (this includes BMFA membership at about £32 I think).

So if I join now it will cost me £80 to join for six weeks plus BMFA membership which I believe is about £25 at the moment, I asked at several other clubs near me and was told at all of them that the membership runs from Jan 1st to the end of Dec.

I would have thought there is more interest from people wanting to join in the middle of the year ( better weather for one thing) so why cannot clubs have two start dates for new members, or at least reduced fees in some way.

I now have to wait to join or find £80 now and another £80 in about six weeks time.

Bill.