Crane Fly Light , Autotogyro Trainer , For experienced pilots trying autogyros for the first time.

[alexandre niquin]

thanks for your help, i m gonna get all these infomations and i answer you asap

thanks again

Alex

[alexandre niquin]

Hi Tom,

I m used to fly a real gyro, a Magni. However I think that settings for a model are totally different. The travel of the flight control are the same as the CFL.

The rotor turns clockwise (view from the top). As you can see on the draw I made, blades are fixed by two multi layers wood of 2 mm (one above and another below) and don’t you think that may be its not flexible enough?

I made another rotor with the balance system for 2 blades, maybe that could help…

As you see on pictures, there is the pitch control on the rotor however the system is not operational yet, only the roll like the CFL.

Thanks Tom for your advises

Alex

[Tom Wright 2]

Alex

Thank you for the interesting and well presented information. You are correct in saying there are significant differences between full size and model Auto gyros and you may find that piloting a real Auto gyro is easier than flying a own design model .

Looking at your photos and drawings immediately raises doubt about the laminated ply Tri plate so I will check the specification of the plate, shims , and blade mounting , used on my Crane Fly Major which is in effect a scaled up CFL. of a similar size to your model.

Can you please confirm you are also an experienced RC model pilot ? and the roll servo used is high power metal geared ? I use two on this size model.

The plate you need is available from Coolwind but I will get back with the details.

Tom.

[alexandre niquin]

Thank you Tom, it's perfect. Yes I have done competition of acrobatic model since I'm 10 years old, I growed up in the workshop I m now a line and I don't have much time for models however the autogyro rc interested me a lot, really rare to see it in France.

I use a 13kg/cm servo with metal gear, shall I double it for just the roll?

Thanks for your advises, see you soon.

Alex

[Tom Wright 2]

Alex

Sorry for the delay getting back .

The flex plate on my Crane Fly Major is glass fibre 150 mm and 1.6 mm thick. The blade mounting holes are 65 mm from the plate centre. Coolwind can supply this item .

Each blade is 570 mm long with a chord of 60 mm .The bolt holes are 30 mm from the root and 22 mm from the leading edge . Shims are 0.4 mm thick set back 10 mm from the bolt hole centre. Your single servo should be OK . The undercarriage should be further forward

It is not possible to compare performance unless you have the same plate, but another problem is the AUW which at 2.5 kg is probably over the practical limit to achieve reliable performance, 1.8 kg to 2 kg would be a more realistic weight for a first attempt.

For your first model Auto gyro It would have been better to build the standard CFL using the specified components as scaling up Auto gyros can be time consuming and challenging by comparison to fixed wing models, or if you are short of building time the HK Auto - G can be ready for flight in little over one hour.

I hope this is of some help.

Tom.

[alexandre niquin]

Hello Tom,

Thank you very much for these detailed information. I finally got off the second plate above and i made a new plate in kevlar of 2mm and it works well!!!! a bit of tracking remained I guess the plate is still not flexible enough... however the gyro flies! For the rest I used the same setting as yours. I'll make a video to show you.

I would like now to build a new one with two blades and the balance system that we are used to see on the real gyros.

the balance system is already made as I showed you before.

How can i find the equivalent of lift with only 2 blades? Is there a formula or a way to know the length and the chord of these new blades? does the angle of the plate change in that configuration?

Thanks again for the setting information.

Alex

[Tom Wright 2]

Congratulations Alex ,that sounds like a positive result that has exceeded my expectations , it is difficult to comment on the plate other than if it was way to stiff the model would tend to pitch up and roll which would be very difficult to control.

As for a two blade version ,again this could be a challenge , although possibly more efficient when correctly set up the follow rate will most likely be higher than the three blade . I guess a 20% increase in comparative blade area would result in a similar loading but all my models have three blades so this is an area that I have not explored., but I suspect that if the extra area is achieved by adding blade length it would be better,as long as the torsional stiffness is maintained.

I am sure you will keep in mind that when comparing full size set ups that Reynolds number differences come in to play , along with blade section and rigging angles.

We look forward to a video of you current creation in action , keep up the good work..

Tom.

[Handyman]

Hi Tom, Tony Bamford here. I did some proof reading of your Cranefly Lite when you had part of it completed. I have a small problem caused by my getting parts for the SFH autogyro and the parts for the follow on Crane Fly Lite. I have managed to use the delta plate from the Crane Fly lite on my almost completed SFH so now I am flummoxed with regard to the mast angle. And to compound that I have made my blades the same as the Lite blades and not as the SFH one's should be.

On the SFH you advise a mast angle of 8-9 degrees, but on reading the lite instructions, the autogyro body side pieces are cut with an angle of 5 degrees, front and back which in turn fixes the mast at 5 degrees.

My question is this. Shall I split the difference and mount my mast at 5-6 degrees and see how she flies. I tested my blades today in a fairly strong wind and they really did sing when held at an angle, so it should be flyable on the maiden flight.

I hope you can understand my ravings Tom.

[Handyman]

I should have said that I got the parts mixed up and blissfully carried on thinking that I knew what I was doing.

I should have remembered, always read the instructions. Next time I will.

Tony.

[Tom Wright 2]

Hi Tony

Glad to hear you are having a go at the dark art , and having fun sorting out the parts for SFH and CFL .

Firstly the CFL plate should be OK when used on the SFH and the good news is that the 450 CFL blades will also work well on the SFH .

I have flown the HK C-30 blades , and AJ 450s on the SFH and they perform well with minimal trim change noted when compared with the original format described in the PDF. The blade bolt holes and shims should be as the CFL PDF. If you have the SFH shims on the CFL blades spin up will be very quick but the lift will not be optimum , but the model should still fly quite reasonably.

I have only flown the SFH with the PDF mast angle of 8-9 degrees so I can only offer comparisons if this angle is used. The CFL is a very different machine despite the similarity in appearance so a mast angle of 5 degrees is used to accommodate the lower mast and weight.

As I have often said deviation from the instructions or recommended materials or weight can make it difficult to advise constructors and do flight comparisons with a stock model . The SFH will often put up with certain variations but any changes are best made after the Auto gyro wings have been gained as problems during early days could be due to the model or the pilot so deciding between the two is difficult if the model is not as standard.

Hope this is of some help do let us know how things go ,or shout if anything does not make sense.

Regards

Tom.

[bees]

Hi Tom, finally getting round to finishing the crane fly lite after being very busy. Just want to know how much mix you need regarding aileron to rudder. Had a slight problem when connecting esc to motor I had smoke coming out for some reason so will have to get myself another esc .

[Tom Wright 2]

Hi Glen

Try 10mm each way ,and take it from there , two much coupled rudder throw will make the model twitchy .

The rudder will take effect before the roll component due to rotor the lag factor, this should result in an immediate, but smooth response to roll input much like a fixed wing. The coupling takes the pressure off the pilot during early flights and should enable circuit work at a fixed throttle setting just leaving two controls to get right..

Regards

Tom.

[bees]

Tom, I see no mention of a 3 degree tilt of the rotors looking from the rear like on the CF. is it correct that you keep the rotors level with the CFL. Glen

[Tom Wright 2]

Glen I would suggest starting with a very small amount of left roll trim 1-2 degrees , but the final setting will depend on all the variables that can creep into a build, you may well find that zero roll trim is needed after test flying .

Tom.

[Tom Wright 2]

Hi All

After a break from Auto gyro flying ,I have taken advantage of the good weather this week and had an hour or two flying one of my PDF built CFLs .

I must say after anticipating the possibility of rusty piloting the model flew beautifully and with great ease . I have been asked several time to design a better looking model but it would be pointless as my only aim has been to produce a simple robust machine that is easy to fly. Good looks do not make Auto gyros easier to fly or do anything worthwhile to help in avoiding disorientation which is possibly the most frequent cause of crashes so keeping things simple remains my motto.

Regards to all

Tom.

[Tom Wright 2]

[Martin McIntosh]

Still not managed to get to the field with mine under the right conditions but have recently returned from the R/C Hotel, Greece, where I managed to fly one of their Accro Wot fuzzes modified into a gyro. I was on a buddybox under an instructor (Joe) who is an avid autogyro enthusiast. Only had a couple of minutes before it poured down but was able to sample the art of applying bank, then rudder and jiggling the bank to maintain a smooth turn; also using throttle to keep the height correct. This was invaluable experience and am now much more confident to try my own.

[Tom Wright 2]

Hello Martin

A couple of minutes with Joe could be worth several hours of going it alone but it sounds like you did really well during the the brief encounter . Keep in mind that the Accro Gyro would have been in trim so your maiden with the CFL may have the added complication and attendant distraction of trimming in flight ,although all the maidens I have done to date have been none eventful.

If it is way out of trim, try and land or just put down at the earliest opportunity . Two much sustained power and disorientation are the main things to be aware of ,it should not be difficult to keep the model flying close in at low speed .Best of luck and let us know how the maiden goes.

Tom.

[Martin 10]

Posted by Tom Wright 2 on 08/05/2014 18:48:38:

[Martin 10]

Now that is a good looking gyro!

Keep up the good work Tom

Martin

[Tom Wright 2]

Hi Martin

Good to hear from you again , any further word how Chris is getting on?

Tom.

[bees]

The crane fly lite is ready to fly except I cannot get the blades to spin even in a breeze. Tried different shims and even made some new blades but to no avail.

[Tom Wright 2]

Hi Glen

A check list to ensure good spin up.

Bearings must be free.

Shims must be behind the blade bolt, min shim 0.4 mm max shim 0.8 mm thick.

Airflow must be sufficient with the rotor presented at a minimum of 18 degrees to the air flow.

Blades must be true with no positive twist.

Are you coming to Winterton this year?

Regards

Tom.

[bees]

Hi Tom, everything you suggest is okay on the CFL . Little bit annoying as my CF blades were made pretty quick with good results and on the CFL I have took my time and made 2 sets of blades but no results. Could it be the blade airfoil but they look to be the same as your profile shown on the PDF. Not sure about Winterton yet as I think Waddington air show is on the same week end. Glen

[Tom Wright 2]

Any minor changes to the airfoil is most unlikely to be the problem Glen . If the run up was tried in the garden then turbulence and eddies can easily rob the rotor of a steady airflow , having said that all my rotors will run up to speed in still air just by walking forward at a brisk pace, so if every thing else in order your rotors must spin up .

I assume from your previous comments that 0.08 mm shims have been tried? However 0.4 should be fine in a light breeze. Should you not solve the problem bring it over one afternoon or evening PM or e mail to set a date.

Tom.