Model Restraint

[Erfolg]

As modellers we are constantly bombarded with safety advice. Much of it has a IC bent to it.

It is self evident that some means of constraint is needed with a 150cc, half scale gigantic model, other than a few add-hoc screwdrivers in the ground. From this start it does not take any imagination how the need for a proper functioning restraint, cascades down the IC hierarchy.

The trouble for us electric fliers, there seems to be a desire to force us electric fliers into the use of the same conceptual idea devices, by some IC orientated individuals and representatives.

However as electric models get bigger, manual restraint, becomes less practical for electric models.

So why not IC equipment. Primarily because the issues are so different. There is no starter, glo driver, no priming, fiddling with needles etc.

Instead, some electric models, are armed whilst the model is on its back, the need to arm it from the rear. Probably, something that happens to most of us at some time, whilst checking, the control surfaces, the throttle may be briefly caught. The difference here to IC, is that suddenly the model moves fro passive into potential motion.

There is also the issue that many moulded electric gliders have essentially a plug on power pod.

In my opinion the tasks that are undertaken by electric modellers are in them selves are unique to electric models undertaken from different direction, the rear. Some have UC many not, size increasingly occupies a wide spectrum of size, from micro through to large. Quite a challenge for a single solution.

So has any one any designs that work for electrics, rather than what IC operatives think we should have?

[Phil 9]

"what IC operatives think we should have" oh dear

I think you are asking the right question but maybe the wrong way.

there will be no one answer for electric restraint as there is no one answer for IC models. At my club it is a rule all models should be restrained by mechanical or human means when armed or started. I use a mechanical restraint for my ic model. for my electric models I can arm both of them from behind into the top. So I use my legs as a restraint. The large 150cc models at my club also use the human method but it takes one man at the back to hold the model and one at the front to start it.

At a tarmac flying site restraining a model needs a different approach to the common pegged to the ground restraint

[Andy48]

For me the most effective solution is fitting a safety plug to every model. I do not fit this until I am on the flying field with the model in the take off position. Once plugged in (standing behind the wings), I then perform final safety checks. The safety plug is removed once the flight is finished, but before the model is removed from the flying field. With the safety plug removed then it is perfectly safe to disconnect and reconnect a battery, even if the battery is underneath.

Using this procedure no mechanical restraint is necessary.

When testing at home or occasionally on the field, then I use a mechanical restraint, and the safety plug provides a strong message, armed and possibly dangerous.

The only possible flaw in this is a badly constructed model where the wiring is such that a short could occur, but then any badly constructed model is a danger.

[old yorkie]

you won't go far wrong with a 'great mate' model stand. a bit pricy but excellant in use.

[Erfolg]

Oh how you disappoint me, a typical IC stand, yellow yes, but what else

[crispin church]

you cant well should not run any engine on a stand that could tip over

that stand or any stand great for putting plane together but starting it or running the motor

i dont think so

[Erfolg]

Martin

What is actually conceptually different to a Deans plug?

Our club only arms at the point of flight. The trouble is then you go through your pre-flight check. IC clubs do not like this, as it is a short delay. We also disarm at landing, not back in the pits area. Again, the very slight delay can find disfavour with some IC modellers.

For me the most important safety aspect is that you stand behind (as you high light), not in front, do not reach over the propeller (as there is no need to).

In essence all tools etc., should be behind, which is different to most if not all IC operations, where a field box is either in front, or to the side, with fuel pumps, glo drivers, priming bottle and the essential starter.

Electric flight safety can only be optimised by considering electric model safety from the perspective of electric models, not with a influence, or IC backdrop.

I do think there is a place for some form of restraint, perhaps not always hardware, or necessarily one universal design for electric models.

I wondered if there were any designs out there?

[Andy48]

Presume you mean a Deans plug for the battery? Conceptually no different except that it is placed on the outside of the model where it can be easily fitted and removed on the flying field.

Frankly, any slight delay on the flying field is simply tough. After all its their safety as well as yours. The pre-flight checks take just seconds, and surely even the ic boys check the operation of the control surfaces on the flying field? I've never had any complaints when doing this.

[Phil 9]

there you go

[Greybeard]

I think that you are dreaming up problems where none exist.

[Craig Carr]

Posted by Greybeard on 02/08/2013 18:45:18:

I think that you are dreaming up problems where none exist.

Pleased I wasn't the only one that was thinking that

The restraintnt that phil 9 shows is good for both types of power surely ? No need to reinvent the wheel

[Mark a]

The use of a Model restraint should i my opinion be SOP standard operating procedure i'm sure they have saved many a finger etc in the past.

[Tony Bennett]

i use one with my electric models.

makes sense.

[Erfolg]

Mark, I am at a loss what your fingers are doing at the front or near the propeller of an electric model, when live.

However I would like to see your design for a restraint, that deals with the issues of electric flight, not a IC solution to a different set of problems.

With bigger electric models with UC that a restraint could be useful. The issue would be what would it protect against. If we all follow Martins rules, the problem that IC restraints protect against, would not be relevant to the operator. Its purpose would be to hold the model securely to aid handling and ensuring that the model cannot go on walk about.

It seems that I will be disappointed in that to-date a electric focussed design has not be made, or if it has, it remains incognito.

I can see that IC solutions are being pressed into service, I am not convinced that they deal with the issues of electric models.

[Tony Bennett]

what issues.

i am lost here.

[Phil 9]

Posted by Tony Bennett on 02/08/2013 20:37:15:

what issues.

i am lost here.

me too. a spinning prop is a danger no matter what is making it turn

[Tony Bennett]

i have a clip on my tx that holds the throttle shut when i am carrying the tx and plane out to the flight line.

no spinning prop while transporting the plane for me.

when fitting the battery, the model sits upside down on the stand with the tail in the restraint, then i turn it over and while it is still in the restraint test the controls, slip the clip over the throttle stic and we are set.

[Craig Carr]

Erfolg, sorry I just don't see a problem.

There's nothing to resolve

[Erfolg]

The issue is there is no need to be near the propeller with electric, you should be behind it. The IC restraint is designed to stop forward movement, as that is where the IC flyer is. If you are there, in front with an electric model why?

It seems there is nothing specific for electric models at present.

Perhaps just a physical restraint, is all an electric model needs to be safe, for the operator.

[Phil 9]

Posted by Erfolg on 02/08/2013 21:24:28:

The issue is there is no need to be near the propeller with electric, you should be behind it. The IC restraint is designed to stop forward movement, as that is where the IC flyer is. If you are there, in front with an electric model why?

It seems there is nothing specific for electric models at present.

Perhaps just a physical restraint, is all an electric model needs to be safe, for the operator.

Are you trying to say if an electric model revs up you do not need to restrain it because the operator is behind it and therefore safe. an uncontrolled model launching itself accross the field is not safe

Edited By Phil 9 on 02/08/2013 21:38:39

[Erfolg]

Phil, it is no threat to you behind it, not as with IC, where the threat is real, as you kneel in front..

Come on, you sound like an IC man

[Phil 9]

Posted by Erfolg on 02/08/2013 21:43:07:

Phil, it is no threat to you behind it, not as with IC, where the threat is real, as you kneel in front..

Come on, you sound like an IC man

you have an IC shaped chip on your shoulder. I have more electric powered models than IC but I do fly both. It is not only the operator that should be protected but everyone at the field

[Concorde Speedbird]

It doesn't make any sense, the whole point of a restraint is to stop a model going forwards. Available restraints do this, so what possible way is there to design one specifically for electric powered models? Do electric models go sideways when powered up?

The whole suggestion just seems completely useless, I have never seen an 'IC' specific restraint, because restraints are universal and work for any model. There are real problems out there to solve, whereas there is no problem here so there is nothing to solve and it would just be another unnecessary complication.

We just hold our models anyway, and have never had a problem, so unless the human body has been specifically designed to restrain IC powered model aeroplanes so therefore it cannot be used for electric ones, that is what I would suggest. Or some sturdy pegs.

And can we please stop denoting each other as 'Electric guys' or 'IC guys', it is as if we are trying to categorise people into different groups so they can confute them. We are all in the same hobby, there is no need to frown upon different people's preferences.

CS

[Ted]

CS, And so say all of us! Ted

[Phil 9]

When you think about it this type of restraint suits electric better than IC as it only stops the model going forward. An ideal IC restraint would also stop the model going backwards when you push the starter against it like the AIROPULT