Glider ID needed

[Paul McCaughey]

can anyone provide an ID of this gider? i bought it at a swapmeet but have no idea what it is. it's been built to a really high standard. initial plan was to bungee launch it but thinking about converting it to electric so that it's a bit easier to use. tailplane and wing are held on with rubber bands.

if i were to convert to electric would it be best to look at a pod mount or would a nose mounted motor and folding prop be best? i will get the weight of it as i assume that will be needed to work out likey power set ups?

or should i just get a bungee and use as is?

[PatMc]

Looks like a modified RC 1363 Orange Box **LINK**
It makes a very good light/moderate wind first time slope soarer.

My choice for power conversion would be to fit the servos & Rx under the wing, then fit a 1/8" birch ply former aproximately level with the front of the "canopy" & a 3s lipo in the canopy area.

HTH,
Pat.

[Paul McCaughey]

thanks Pat. looks spot on as being that glider. been wondering about it for a while.

it came with servos already installed under the wing. they have strange connectors i have never come across though. any ideas? (bottom ones)

i will need to have a look at her again and see what the constriction is like up the front. adding a former should be doable. any ideas on likely power set ups? anything that will haul her up to a decent height a handful of times per battery should do the job. electric is appealing as it's a lot less hassle than setting up a bungee all the time.

[Former Member]

[This posting has been removed]

[PatMc]

I think they're an old type used by Futaba.

These were the ones that replaced them. They have the same pins but better mouldings for pulling out of the Rx etc when necessary.

The power depends on whether you want a quick short climb (my preference) or a slow meander up to glide altitude, also the AUW, the weight needed in the nose to achieve the correct cg (cg on mainspar will probably be the best starting point) & the space in the nose area.
On thermal gliders I usually reckon on enough power to achieve 180 - 200m altitude in a 30 sec burst & battery capacity for 6 to 8 climbs per charge. This gives around an hour flying time without any thermal help.

When I posted earlier I had in mind the motor fully exposed using an "X" mount but if the existing nose block was cut away then replaced by a ply former the motor could be mounted on that from inside the hatch area with a spinner to tidy things up. Obviously the dia of the motor would have to fit & it's shaft would have to be the reverse to the "X" mount method. Need a bit more effort but IMO it would look much better and have less drag.

Whichever method it would be as well to incorporate about 2 or 3 degrees of downthrust in the ply former but personally I wouldn't bother with any sidethrust.

If you post how much space is in available for the motor & batteries also the size of the motor mount former I'll try and suggest some suitable power combo alternatives.

[Paul McCaughey]

some photos of the front end and storeage space. looks like its got a former ,then a shaped nose block beyond that. fleet servos which i have never heard of. well before my time in modelling i am afraid.

[Paul McCaughey]

any thoughts?

[Bearair]

Hi paul,

Ive never tried changing plugs on fleet servos, always seamed to have more rx's than servos in those days. If your using 35mhz I can happily send you an old fleet rx that will work. Otherwise unless someone knows how to fit standard plugs I would fit new servos and flog them on BMFA people are still using Fleet it was the last of the British rc gear.

Roger

[PatMc]

If the servos are in good working condition I would cut the wires at about half their length & solder the same length of wire with Futaba/JR plugs already fitted. If you don't feel confident in your soldering ability then best scrap them & replace with similar size popular ones but don't buy from Ebay.

There appears to be plenty of room for a battery, esc & motor in the hatch area, IMO the Rx would be best placed behind the servos. If you could post the actual (aprox) dimensions of the inside of the area forward of the servos we can probably come up with some motor, battery & prop suggestions.

[PatMc]

BTW Paul, the Orange box is an excellent rudder/elevator glider. IMO it's a far better design than the (for some reason) popular Gentle Lady.

My first encounter with an Orange Box was when one flew into my 5lb, 100" span Diamond glider as I was practising consecutive loops at Filey Brig. The Diamond suffered a slightly dented wing LE but unfortunately the OB fluttered to the beach in a shower of bits.

Since then I've flown a couple of other OBs from slope & bungee launch on the flat. I found them nicely responsive, able to penetrate quite well & with quite a good glide performance.

[Paul McCaughey]

OK thanks pat. Will get some servo extension leads and cut them up to solder onto the servos.

Loads of space for modern 2.4 RX behind servos, could fit 3 or 4 in there!

Space closest to servos, 100mm between bulkheads, depth at lowest is 45mm, width is 50mm and narrows to 45mm.

Up front, 90mm between bulkheads, depth lowest I can measure is 35mm but it narrows further over the 25mm towards the nose I can't measure. Width is 45mm narrowing to 35mm again there another few mm it narrows I can't measure.

I was able to fit 2of my 3s 800mah side by side with ease and still plenty space to spare in the back section. I could run them in parallel to get 1600mah.

Its a good looking glider and been built well which is why I went for it.

[Paul McCaughey]

Roger, just noticed your post. i run 2.4ghz so the 35mhz won't be any use but thanks for the offer. no idea what the fleet servos are worth they look like new. i only need another 2 to replace them, will list them on the bmfa classifieds and this site and see if anyone has 2 they want to swap. i think i had a switch with the same plugs as well. will need to look in the spares box for it.

there is a local bring and buy on friday so will see if i can pick up 2 servos at that. i might be able to get some lipos, motor/esc if i know what i am looking for to convert it.

[PatMc]

Hi Paul, looking through some stuff I came across the Orange Box plan today.
I've scanned the nose section & had a look at the front formers etc.

F1 is 42mm sq so it would probably be best to look for a 28mm 1000 - 1100KV outrunner weighing around 50 - 70g. That should be good for about 100 - 120W driving a 9x5 folder on 3s lipos.

Simplest option for mounting the motor would be to cut the nose of about 30 - 40mm behind F1 & glue a new 3 or 4mm birch ply former with about 3 degrees from vertical to give downthrust. Then fix the motor on this using an "X" mount. Alternatively, a bit more work but tidier, there would be enough room to mount the motor internaly behind a new, slightly larger ply F1 fixed maybe 10mm behind the existing one again allowing for 3 degrees downthrust.

[Paul McCaughey]

thanks for this pat. if going for the tidier version i would need to get an inrunner or an outrunner that i can mount via an x-mount on the spindle side.

i was also thinking potentially keep f1 in place and put a new former in between f1 and f2 and mount an outrunner via an xmount onto that? there should easily be enough space to get things balanced as required. with battery packs. whats your thoughts?

[PatMc]

An inrunner would be easier to mount but you won't find one with a low enough KV to use a decent size prop for a glider. OTOH there are plenty of suitable outrunners at around 1000KV. This would allow a prop of about 9" dia on 3s lipos.

If you fitted the motor as you suggest it would be difficult to access the screws for the X mount.
I had a similar situation when converting a larger E-glider from geared brushed motor to brushless inrunner some time ago. Here are some photos of my method.
The first photo shows the nose with the brushed motor in place. I sawed the nose short & glued a new former in place to take the brushless motor. Because the new motor was a lot lighter than the old & the fact that I was also intended replacing the existing nicads with lipos I lengthened the nose a few inches in the process.

The cowl was made up from 1/16" ply sides, top & bottom with a ply ring behind the spinner & balsa triangular strip. It was constructed "in situ" around the motor with the balsa carved where necessary to clear the motor.

[Paul McCaughey]

thanks for the great info pat. do you think any of these motors would be up to the job?

**LINK**

[PatMc]

The Keda A22-15M looks to be suitable but 3 or 4 others do as well. I haven't used any of the motors in the linked page but I'm using a couple of these Keda motors in heavier models & I've been pleased with them.
At 1050 KV the A22 should drive an 8" or 9" folder within the current limit on 3s with enough power for a decent climb rate.

[Paul McCaughey]

i was thinking a 25/30a esc?

for props i can get an 8x6 and 9x5 to fit the 3mm shaft.

what gauge of wire will i need to create my parallel leads? i've only ever bought off the shelf leads for lipos so not sure what i'll need. i will run 3.5mm bullets as that is what my batteries all have but can't see any leads to suit. it hink the 2x 800mah will give me a some flexibility to move them to get the optimum balance point. i can then see about getting some larger ones further down the line.

[Paul McCaughey]

i have decided on teh advice of one of the more experienced guys i fly with to keep this as a normal glider. i've fitted it out with new servos, rx, and battery pack. the wind direction is looking favourable for slope flights this weekend but need to get it balanced up. the are markings on the wing but i am sceptical that they will be right.

pat, are you able to check your plans and let me know the cg position from the leading edge of the wing? also how far forward from the cg position is the tow hook mounted? i've got a hook to fit so that i can bungee her up on the field during nice summer days.

thanks in advance.

[PatMc]

Hi Paul, the cg is 2.5" & the hook position is 1.3" behind the LE.

Re the tow hook, from experience the plastic ones are not much good but nothing elaborate is needed. I used to make mine from a curtain hook, straightened with pliers then bent to an "L" shape. This was screwed into a 3/16 birch ply plate, or piece of beech engine bearer wood, that was epoxied to the inside fuselage floor. A small pilot hole to start then a drop of cyano to lock the hook in place & the job's done.
This method was good enough for any glider from a KK Chief A2 vintage to BARCS Open size using hand tow, bungee or electric tow. The pics show what I used on a 5lb 100S glider after goodness knows how many hard tows.

[Paul McCaughey]

thanks pat, appreciate it.

i got a plastic and a metal tow hook. we looked at both and decided on the metal one. it has one of the toothed wood locking nuts with it. i have some 3mm ply to use as a base plate. will get this fitted after the weekend. i need to take the servo's out to access the area under them as that is where the hook will go.

looks like the wind is going to be a perfect 15/16mph easterly directly onto the slope on both saturday and sunday afternoon. i haven't sloped before so will be testing with my bixler before flying the orange box. that way i can figure out where the lift is and i have the power to get out of trouble if i need it.

[PatMc]

The Orangebox will fly in the lightest breeze. I've flown ones belonging to other people a number of times & always found them very pleasant fliers. When you launch it don't throw it hard or there's a danger it will rear up & be overhead out of control & crash behind you before you know what's happening. Just push it forward pointing about 10 - 20 degrees down. If the lift's not strong enough it will go down anyway but at least you'll be in control.

[Erfolg]

Patmac

I know that you have said that a inrunner would be easier to instal, although there are none available for direct drive, have you considered these Turnigy 480L.

I use two of these motors, one on a glider and one on a sports plane. They may not be suitable for the model shown, as it seems a little lightly built, for vertical climbs etc. As for recommendations, I rate them highly.

Just a thought.

[PatMc]

Erfolg, I've had a look at the link. Interesting but it's too heavy for this model & I'd prefer something with a lower KV for any glider that would take a motor that size. It would probably be suitable for some hotliners.

BTW the fact that this model is lightly built is no reason that would prevent it having enough power to climb verticaly.

[Erfolg]

Hmm. I guess it all depends on what you want.

I have taken note of the models at our club. What is striking is that they all can get to 200m in less than 20s. I am thinking of models which vary from Ava, Pikes, Trackers and many others of a similar ilk, that is spans from as little as 2m up to 3.5m. Again, all these are competition orientated

I guess there is the other side of a similar, although very old coin, where some wheeze there way, to similar heights in a lethargic minute or so.

I guess it all depends on what floats your boat.

In my case I am reluctant to pay for a reasonable inrunner, with a good quality, epicyclic type gearbox. The V type will provide a similar performance level, although not quite as outstanding. One of its strong features is that it is similar in diameter to the old brushed 480, although longer and heavier. It is good enough for a 2m Sagitta and for 3m Algebra (EMP), not bad for the price.