ALERT: Be careful when selling

[AVC]

Every sale on internet implies certain level of risk. We, as sellers, want to ensure that we are paid, but at the same time, the buyer wants exactly the same for the bits that he's purchasing.

There are mechanisms out there to reduce those kind of risks, but there are also other risks, not so evident, hence we have to be more vigilant. Let me tell you a story that has happened tome recently

Some days ago I inserted an adv in another second hand forum to sell one of my models. The price was 180£  (keep this in mind). The next day I received an email of a potential buyer, asking for some pics. I sent them, and the same day he confirmed that he wanted the plane. When we discussed the payment method, he proposed this: he said he was collecting other bits in my area, so he proposed to send me a cheque for a quantity "slightly" higher that my price. I should cash the cheque, takemy money, and let him knows. He then would arrange the shipping, and I should give the carrier the remaining pounds. Sounds odd, but somehow acceptable...

Some days later, I received the cheque, inan envelop with UK stamps and no sender details. Remeber my price (180£ ). The cheque was in €, was from a foreing bank, and the amount was 2.000€.

Obviously, I sent him an email saying that I was in shock with the amount, and also with the fact that it was in €. Five minutes later he called me...from a Nigerian mobile number. I'm not English, but I can identify the English accent. His accent wasn't Engish,or Spanish, French, German or Italian, so I can only guess he's from Nigeria. He insisted that I should cash the cheque as soon as possible, becuase he needed the stuff. After that call,I tracked his IP, and it was registered in US, in California.

Obviously, at that moment I was almost sure that he had no interest at all on the plane, but in any case I reported to the police and asked for their opinion. They confirmed what I though: it looks like a "low level" money laundry,and they said that I could be involved if I went ahead with it.

But the final confirmation came when I send an email saying that my dog had broken the plane, destroying it completely, and asking him for an address to send the cheque back. His reply basically was: "oh! bad luck, but never mind, send it as it is..." He would buy the model as it is, AND FOR THE SAME PRICE!!!.

Obviously, I'm not selling him absolutely anything, and I have already destroyed the cheque, straight after making a fotocopy and report the incident to Action Fraud.

I hope this story could be useful to all of us selling stuff on internet, to keep an eye on the buyer and ensure that no criminal will use us for their purposes.

Edited By Alejandro Valle Carrillo on 27/09/2013 17:28:23

Edited By Alejandro Valle Carrillo on 27/09/2013 17:28:56

Edited By Alejandro Valle Carrillo on 27/09/2013 17:31:48

[John F]

I have had two friends have similar experiences to this; where a buyer wants to send a cheque for a much larger sum than you ask for then the buyer will ask for the difference sometimes. The cheque is invariably a fake and will bounce if presented to the bank.

It is called cheque overpayment. More info here http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-cheque-overpayment-fraud There is one aspect though, the police would not see you as a fraudster but rather a victim.

Edited By Sarge on 27/09/2013 17:52:45

Edited By Sarge on 27/09/2013 17:53:53

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

This is a well known scam and has been reported on here before - but this is one case where repetition is OK as it keeps people alert. Most folks think that if you cash a cheque and it clears that's the end of it - not so I'm afraid, the funds can still be withdrawn from your account afterwards.

Just remember the old saying folks:

"If it looks too good to be true - it probably is"!

If anything looks the slightest bit "odd" or "fishy" about a transaction - walk away.

BEB

[Peter Miller]

I had this happen many years ago. Being a nasty suspicious type I told the prospective buyer to get lost.

I then infomred the police and had a policeman come and see me. He explained that I would get a cheque and when I passed on the "extra" the bank would latere tell me that I had to pay them back.

I said that I was amazed that anyone would be so stupid. He told me that a man in my own village got taken for £5000. Yes, five thousand pounds.

I asked how people got taken so easily. He said one wrod. "Greed!"

[AVC]

So it seems it's a common practice... I have sold a bought hundreds of times on internet, and I've never had this situation before.

Peter, I also think as the police told you: greed is the key for those people to "do business".

Thanks all for your advices

[John Privett]

Alejandro, that is indeed a fairly well-known scam, though I'm not sure it happens "often". It's as well to keep mentioning it though for anyone who might not have been aware of it.

For anybody who does accept a cheque, the banks do these days have "certainty of clearing" where after the completion of 6 working days following the day of paying-in the cheque it will be guaranteed to have cleared. So after that it's the bank that loses if the cheque should later be discovered to be "bad". Though it should be fairly obvious that if you are a knowing-party to the fraud then you wouldn't be protected. Do be aware though of the timescales. I strongly suspect that anyone carrying out the fraud mentioned above will strongly persuade you to send the surplus funds before the end of the sixth working day. It will appear on your statement quickly, you may be allowed to withdraw funds against it after a couple of days but 6 whole working days must pass after paying-in before it has certainly cleared.

Barclays, for example, (first one I found on googling) give advice here. So a cheque paid-in on a Monday will be cleared with certainty if it hasn't "bounced" before the end of Tuesday the following week. So wait until the Wednesday morning to be certain.

Edited By John Privett on 28/09/2013 00:01:09

[Martin Whybrow]

However, fraudulent or stolen cheques can still be reversed 6 months later!

[Mark Stevens 1]

Agreed - this is a very old scam but still seems to surface every now and then, not just restricted to model sales though. I have seen it range from cars advertised in Autotrader to Puppies for sale.

The majority of these frauds do originate from Nigeria and some from neighbouring countries like Ghana etc. The usual method is to offer you over the advertised price in the hope that you will get greedy and not forward the remaining funds onward as per the agreement. The Cheque is usually not worth the paper it is written on.

By the time it takes for the bank to cash your cheque, your goods will have been posted only to follow by a letter from the bank saying the cheque is a dud.

Once the goods are in transit in the postal system, it is extremely difficult to stop them..You might be lucky if you can catch it before it leaves the UK, even then it's not that easy to stop it going any further owing to the strict postal protocols in place. Once it's on the plane out of the country then you have no hope.

Mark.

Ps...Western Union seems to be the favoured bank of choice by the Scammers !!

Edited By Mark Stevens 1 on 28/09/2013 03:26:17

[Greybeard]

A variation on the theme. I have a friend who is apparently stranded in a far off land after apparently having been robbed of all his possessions who, in spite of suffering such a trauma, has managed to remember my email address, and has used it to ask for an immediate transfer of £2550 to his new bank account in said far off land.

Sad that because I never did like him very much.

[Peter Miller]

Posted by Greybeard on 28/09/2013 07:41:48:

A variation on the theme. I have a friend who is apparently stranded in a far off land after apparently having been robbed of all his possessions who, in spite of suffering such a trauma, has managed to remember my email address, and has used it to ask for an immediate transfer of £2550 to his new bank account in said far off land.

Sad that because I never did like him very much.

Wasn't there a celebrity or TV personality got caught up in that scam just recently. I know I saw it on TV

[AVC]

Greybeard, was yours something like this?:

"

Just hoping this email reaches you well, I'm sorry for this emergency and for not informing you about my urgent trip to Manila,Philippines but I just have to let you know my present predicament. Everything was fine until I was attacked on my way back to the hotel, I wasn't hurt but I lost my money, bank cards, mobile phone and my bag in the course of this attack.

I immediately contacted my bank in order to block my cards and also made a report at the nearest police station.I've been to the embassy and they are helping me with my documentation so i can fly out but I'm urgently in need of some money to pay for my hotel bills and my flight ticket home, will definitely REFUND as soon as back home .

Kindly let me know if you would be able to help me out so I can forward you the details required for a wire transfer.

Waiting to hear back from you.."

[Greybeard]

That's the one; where should I send the money?

[AVC]

[Codename-John]

I must be lucky, I get the opposite lol, people always want to share their wealth with me by crediting my acount with millions of dollars, the latest one I got was from Muammar Gaddafi`s ex assistant.

Apparently Gaddafi hid $65 million before he was killed and only this ex assistant knows about it, but as he`s under surveillance because of who he is, he needs assistance to move the money before he can escape the country.

All he needs is my Name, Address, DoB, Bank details etc and I`ll be rich beyond my wildest dreams !!!

Yeah Right

[John F]

The really sad aspect of these, despite the humour value for us more intelligent folk, is that this scam works!

People really do send money, people do send their bank details and people do sit there "gobsmacked" when it all goes wrong and they sit and blame everyone else other than themselves.

[Peter Miller]

I remember some lady who was told that she had won a Canadian lottery but she had to pay some taxes before getting the prize. Then she was told that things had got mixed up and she had to send more so she did.

Now this was on a TV program and and the woman looked and sounded very intelligent and well educated.

It seems that this was a common scam and caught a lot of people.

Now I know that we have all won prizes on these lotteries but the question any reasonably sensible person must ask is "How can I have won if I haven't bought a ticket?"

Me? Well, I am a nasty, suspicious, cynical old man. I don't believe that I have won until the cheque comes into my hand and I as sure as hell don't pay for it.