Ever wanted to get into or improve your aerobatics?

[Swissflyer]

Posted by Peter Jenkins on 07/04/2014 23:13:01:

Having not flown for 6 months, getting back in the saddle was a reminder that it's the basics that you really need to focus on. This despite having the slight angst of a maiden with my new aerobat which happens to be a biplane. While the aircraft flys beautifully, you still need to fly the line accurately when you have cross wind with which to contend. So, while you might think it a bit boring just aiming to fly at a constant distance on a line parallel to your runway is extremely good for getting you a fighting chance when you start flying manoeuvres.

Peter,
Thanks for this very good tip; it has improved my slow rolls

I put your advice into practice & found that flying the line “right side up” was OK, however, I did notice that my slow rolls (in the wind) were skewing.

So I repeated your “fly the line” exercise inverted…

I am so glad none of you saw the first five minutes of that flight; I was all over the place.

A few days later I tried again & the chaos only lasted two minutes, the rest was “under control”

Today I was able to “fly the inverted line” & do inverted, flat turn, figure eights in a far more controlled way. Practice is paying off.

Of course my slow roll problem (in the wind) was incorrect rudder use on the lower half of the roll and “flying the inverted line” is helping to fix that.

Please keep those practical tips coming.

Mark

[Peter Jenkins]

Here's another tip (which I learned from someone else).

When flying inverted and steering with the rudder, just think in which direction you want the tail to move to keep on line and push the rudder stick in that direction.

Despite that, I still end up getting the rudder input the wrong way!

Why, you might ask use the rudder to maintain direction? The answer is very simple. If you use bank, you lose marks for not having your wings level when you fly in competition. So, if your intention is at some point to try a competition, best to start flying in that way - wings level unless you are in a rolling manoeuvre!

The one divergence from this is that you can use a small amount of bank when looping in cross winds to correct the aircraft's path. I posted on this a few posts back (07/04/2014 23:13:01)

Peter

[Martyn K]

I have modified my banggood tray as suggested with hand rests. The material came from b&q 40x10mm Ali angle and 30mm Ali strip.

The Ali angle supports thpe strip at the right height. All held together with pop rivets. Sorry about the photo quality on this shot.

 

And with the transmitter in place..

I have also set the spring tension on the sticks as hard as they will go - they were set pretty strong anyway. I have also increased the stick length.

It all feels rather odd and will be a good excuse if I bin any models at Sleap tomorrow.

Best wishes

 

Martyn

Edited By Martyn K on 26/04/2014 20:08:01

[john melia 1]

Did anyone manage to turn all this brilliant information into a book yet

[Masher]

Looks good Martyn - mine turned up Friday and I will do something similar to convert it. I have also increased my stick tension and it certainly was a bit strange at first - felt like I'd lost control

John - I have cut and pasted the bulk of the thread into a WORD document so I can read at leisure

[Peter Jenkins]

John - I'm working on it! Will let you know when it's complete. Have been busy trying to get in some practice for my first competition of the year. Looks like I need a lot more practice as I couldn't cope with my new aerobat in 80 to 90 degree xwind (15 gusting 25) in which we had to fly! Take offs and landings were interesting as well! That, by the way, is one of the advantages (!) of flying in competition. You have to fly outside your comfort zone and you learn so much! Primarily, don't stuff the model in! Learning when to be be brave and when to adopt less high risk strategies thus sacrificing points but living to fly another day is key!

Martyn - excellent job on the Tx tray. I have to admire your courage to go for it at Sleap. I found it took me 3 months to get used to flying with the tray. Perhaps it was me but I felt like it was learning how to fly again! Now, I wouldn't go back to thumbs and whenever I do have to fly thumbs only it feels strange and less secure as the Tx bounces around all over the place as your hands try to do two things at the same time - fly and hold the Tx. For precise aerobatics I find it's just great but then again there are great aerobatic pilots who fly thumbs. Horses for courses I guess - but do give it a bit of time to adjust before you make a judgement.

Peter

[Martyn K]

Hi Peter

It wasn't too bad.. I have always used finger thumb on A/E anyway. I just used a thumb on R/T. What I found was that the palm of my hand wrapped around the curved part of the aluminium frame that I has added. My throttle control was much better although I was still very wooden on Rudder. No real change on A/E though. I know it is working because I can feel the additional load on my neck.

I had a look at Sam Wragg's transmitter tray yesterday as well. He uses a Graupner transmitter, but his home made tray has hand rests about 100-125mm wide on each side. He let me have a practice (just holding the Tx - he didn't let me loose on his Magic) - it felt really quite good so I may extend the hand rests on my own Tray before I get too used to it.

Martyn

[Peter Jenkins]

Hi Martyn

Glad to hear that you made the transition to flying with a tray with little difficulty. I have not measured the width of the side pieces on my tray but it is sufficiently wide for my palm to never feel as if it's near the edge. The biggest help I find from using a tray is the fact that the Tx remains rock solid stable compared to when it was hanging on a neck strap and being held by me while flying with thumbs. In particular, it has made flying long inverted sections at constant height much easier to control.

You will find your rudder control getting better the more you make use of it. Lots of knife edge and slow rolls will force you to develop your rudder control as will cross wind take offs and landings. Practice - and lots of it - that's all it takes!

Peter

[Martyn K]

Hi Peter

I am not sure if this has been covered, but just how far from the pilot is the 'line'?

And how far behind the pilot sit the judges?

Thanks

M

[Kevin Caton]

Martyn

The line of flight is 150m in front of the pilot, who stands at the intersection of the centre line and the two 60 degree box end lines. The judges are seated no more than 10m behind the pilot and within the extension of the end box markers. In this picture you can see I'm stood at the intersection and the judges are just off the picture to the left.

The flight line is beyond the trees on the right for added turbulence!

Kevin

[SR 71]

Hi Peter

Got my O/D 2x2 almost ready to est fly, heres a couple of pics, ( i hope )

Never been able to get on with posting pic's on here

[Peter Jenkins]

Martyn

As Kevin says the line is at 150 mtrs but that's for a 2 mtr model. If you are flying, say, a 50 size you would be at around 70-80 mtrs and for a 110/120 size at around 120 mtrs. The aim being that the different sizes appear approximately the same size to the eye. One other point to consider is that, if operating with the 60 deg lines to delineate the aerobatic box, the close in you fly the shorter the distance available to carry out the manoeuvre and remain within the box.  If you go outside the box, and remember there is a 60 deg vertical box as well, scoring ceases for that part of the manouevre outside the box. Conversely, the further out you fly, the greater the distance available but it becomes a bit more difficult to see the changes in the model aspect as the manoeuvre is flown. If you fly too far out, then, in competition, you can be downgraded as the judges find it difficult to see what's going on!

SR71 - congratulations on your new baby. I think you said this was your first foray into a 2x2 model so I take my hat off to you. Have you decided what motive power yet? What weight are you aiming at for the completed model? And, what's its name?

Peter

Edited By Peter Jenkins on 30/04/2014 23:01:25

[Peter Jenkins]

I thought I’d post a few words about the GBR/CAA – Great Britain Radio Controlled Aerobatic Association. The GBR/CAA is the specialist body charged by the BMFA to organise competitions for the FAI F3A and F3P Aerobatic Competitions. As such, it is the body which organises all F3A precision aerobatic competitions in Great Britain. Membership is open to all. The Nationals R/C aerobatic competition is organised and run by the GBR/CAA and is open to any BMFA member to enter – you do not need to be a member of the Association but, in common with other R/C disciplines, you do need a B Certificate to compete.

The Association is also responsible for organising and running international R/C aerobatic competitions to FAI rules. A round of the FAI F3A World Cup is now run annually by the Association and attracts many of the top European Pilots to fly in the UK. This is a 3 day event and this year the event will be held over the weekend 30th, 31st May and 1st June 2014. The venue is the same as last year, a private airfield close to Ashford in Kent. This LINK will give you a flavour of the event. This link is a video of last year's event.

You can obtain further details from this website, including a list of pilots who have entered and details of the location (+ lat/ long coordinates). If you are within a couple of hours drive of Ashford, and you have never seen F3A precision aerobatics, you will not get a better opportunity of seeing the top European Aerobatic pilots in action. There is no charge for spectating and there is usually food and drink available on site.

World Championships are held every other year with Continental Championships in the intervening years. This year, the GB team will be flying in the European Championships which will be held in Liechtenstein. Full details are at the website here.

Edited By Peter Jenkins on 01/05/2014 15:11:34

[Peter Jenkins]

Before going onto other topics, I thought it worth reviewing some points about precision aerobatic flying. Earlier in the thread, I said that the aim was to fly the aircraft through the manoeuvres at a constant speed – except for manoeuvres such as Stall Turns and Spins of course!

In order to achieve that, aerobatic aircraft have a fairly high power to weight ratio. This is typically around 272 watts/lb or 0.37 HP/lb. For an 11 lb (5 Kg) F3A 2 mtr machine this means 3,000 watts or 4 HP. Of course, you don’t need to go to a 2 mtr size, a 50 size machine is just as capable and much cheaper. Here, the retro model is alive and kicking but, as I showed in an earlier posting on this thread, you don’t need to break the bank to get a modern day aerobatic 50 size machine in the air. In fact, it doesn’t cost much more than a standard ARTF sports model.

This is also why aerobatic aircraft are built light and rely on you to land them as opposed to arriving at high speed! If you cannot land your existing aircraft consistently well then a light weight aerobatic aircraft should be left till your landings are improved. Also, of course, a rough club field may not be suitable territory either.

So a light, strong model with a goodly amount of power then allows you to fly your aircraft around a manoeuvre, which could be quite large, but keep the speed constant by continuous use of the throttle. In that respect, the throttle must not be used as an on/off switch.

Again, I stress the need to have properly trimmed out your aircraft so that the CG is in the optimum location (probably somewhere else than recommended on the plan or instructions). See the early part of this thread for how to trim your aircraft. I am often asked to fly a club mates aircraft and very few are actually capable of flying hands off straight and level. It is no wonder that these pilots then struggle to fly an accurate flight path even something as simple as a circuit at constant height (actually, flying consistent circuits is one of the most difficult manoeuvres around – full size and model!).

All this power is going to mean that you need to have optimised your side and up thrust so that power changes do not result in significant changes in pitch and yaw. You are always going to have some minor tweaks to keep straight and level when going from half to full power but if you are coping with major changes in pitch and yaw you need either a more appropriate aircraft or to adjust the engine side/downthrust. Most aerobatic aircraft, both full size or model, these days tend towards a mid-wing or a biplane so that the engine thrust line is very close to the wing datum or, in the case of a bipe, is mid-way between the wings. You probably will not be able to achieve such behaviour with a high wing aircraft although my Wot 4 does come close to being neutral when going from mid to full throttle. Any design with the thrust line, wing datum and tailplane datum are a long way apart is going to cause significant trim changes with power changes – you can’t beat the laws of Physics!

Many club pilots I observe tend to fly low. Of course this gives you a good view of your aeroplane but does nothing for the aircraft’s survivability if you are learning or practising aerobatic manoeuvres. Fly high – 2 mistakes high in the first instance. If you have never seen 2 mtr F3A aircraft being flown, it will come as a shock to find how high the bottom of their manoeuvre box is. As you will have seen from Kevin Caton’s post above, they are also flown on a line at around 150 meters away from the pilot. Ending up overhead during a manoeuvre is to be avoided at all costs. Firstly, it is very difficult to see what the aeroplane is doing and secondly you are probably about to infringe a no fly zone in a position of less than full control – try and avoid this at all costs! If it does happen focus on recovering the aircraft to a safe position and forget the manoeuvre you are trying to perfect.

Fly smoothly. It is much easier to fly an aircraft with lowish control rates than to fly one which is twitchy when you even breathe on the sticks! It does nothing for your nerves and doesn’t look good to spectators.

Fly accurately. It is just as easy to fly an aircraft inaccurately as to fly it accurately. If you start off by flying accurately, you won’t have to re-learn it later when you really do want to fly accurately – for example, when you want to get your B Certificate. What do I mean by that? Try to fly circuits with the upwind and downwind legs parallel to the runway/flightline in use making due allowance for any cross wind component. If you mean to make a 90 deg turn, rolling into it smoothly to no more than 40 degree bank allows you to coordinate elevator input and to time the roll out to hit the right heading – and then keep the wings level. Fly the cross wind legs accurately making allowance for the wind so that you can fly a truly rectangular circuit repeatedly. Don’t be satisfied with allowing the model to meander around like a drunk. This focus on accuracy will help you enormously as you try and improve your aerobatics.

Be critical of your own flying, or ask someone who flys smoothly and accurately to critique your flying. Listen to what they say and think about how to implement any suggestions they make to help you to improve.

[Mark Kettle 1]

This is a great blog with lots of great info within, I'll get a coffee and get reading I like this subject. Also found this in the loft this morning whilst looking for a pattern ship plan.

Can anybody add the TOC championships info or Geoff's influence around the 70's -80's and 90's.

Cheers Mark

Ps. noticed his name is spell wrong....

[Peter Jenkins]

You will have seen some posts above relating to a New Pilot Open Day. This is an event run by the GBR/CAA to give pilots who have never flown in competition a chance to try it out. The Association members provide the mentors to advise and guide the new-to-competition pilots. This is the third year that I have organised and run NPODs in the East Anglia area and after everyone the feedback I’ve had has been how much the pilots have learned about trimming, set up and flying their aircraft. They have also had a chance to experience the pressures of flying in a competition. We generally try to fly four rounds with the last round being the competition – for those who wish to participate.

As in a full competition, pilots fly one at a time so have the sky to themselves – an unaccustomed luxury to some but a necessity if you are flying up and down at the same distance out from the pilot. However, it does mean that everyone else is watching since yours is the only aeroplane in the sky!

We use the GBR/CAA Clubman Schedule for the competition. We provide 2 judges who mark the manoeuvres flown and then we take their judges scores and, after applying the difficulty factor (K Factor) to them arrive at an averaged mark from the 2 judges. That provides the final results and we usually have some backing from sponsors to be able to provide the top 3 pilots with a prize.

If you do get the chance to take part in an NPOD, do have a go. Even if you haven’t really considered flying in competition you will still get top grade coaching in your flying. This year, we had two mentors who are flying in the GB Team this year. It’s not often that you will get such expert mentors!

We have already had 2 NPOD “graduates” from the East Anglia NPODs entering the full competition scene. Until you try it, you never know whether competition flying will interest you. If you want to give a competition a try, the Association allows you to enter one competition, provided you hold a B Certificate, without having to join – they only charge £20 a year by the way. You just pay the competition fee and for Clubman that’s £5. You can check the Competition Calendar for a competition that’s near you and then use this electronic form to enter. People are very helpful at these competitions so you won’t feel left out or looked down upon – far from it. Why not give it a go?

[Martyn K]

I have modified my transmitter tray by widening the hand rests so they are about 100 mm wide. It feels much better than using the narrow ones that I was using last week.

Some photos

They have been cut from 16swg Ali sheet and simply covered in black fablon to smarten them up a bit.

Finally A shot with my hand in with. I have now got ample space. Much betterr.

Thanks for the sound advice.

BW

Martyn

[Mark Kettle 1]

Cheers for the info Peter, I'm in the east midland's I'll check the calender I'd love to give it a try.

[Peter Jenkins]

My goodness Martyn, I thought it was a new design for a flying transmitter with those wings on it! Seriously, I'm sure you'll find that a much better solution. Let us know how you get on with the new hand rests.

Good on yer Mark! The next comp will be at Hurley to the NE of Birmingham on Sunday 11th May. If you are quick, you can still enter and join the 2 guys who are flying Clubman there. You will need to select the Adrian Harrison as the Contest Director. You will need a B Certificate and to be a BMFA member. Remember, it's only £5 to enter as you get your first entry without having to join the Association.

Peter

[Peter Jenkins]

What would folks like to see covered next?

[Masher]

Hi Peter

At risk of asking for something which may already be covered and I've missed it.............

Please could you do a detailed step by step guide to take off and landing? I understand these are part of the sequence and for me, the landing is still the most anxious bit. There has been a piece written by D Ashby and others but it would be good to have a more detailed explanation here with crosswind effects etc

Thanks

Martin

[Peter Jenkins]

OK, by “popular” demand – take-off and landing. As Masher correctly points out, in a competition take-off and landing are marked – the exception being that for the FAI schedule take-off and landing are not marked. I’m sure that someone will chip in as to why this was removed from the FAI schedule.

Take off first. There are several issues to be considered when taking off. Remember, you want to achieve a smooth acceleration, keeping the model tracking straight on the runway heading followed by a smooth lift off and a controlled climb out.

First, what is the surface like? This could be smooth tarmac/concrete, short mown grass or longer, possibly wet, grass. This will determine whether you need to start the take-off with higher rates than you will use for aerobatic flying to allow sufficient elevator authority to overcome tipping over – assuming you are flying a tail dragger.

Second, consider the strength of the wind both the component straight down the strip and that crossing the strip. If you have a head wind your take-off ground speed will be lower than taking off in a flat calm so your climb out angle will appear steeper to those watching. You will need to use your elevator to select the “standard” take-off climb you would follow in a flat calm.

Third, if there is a cross wind, it will have the effect of weather cocking the aircraft into wind and you will need to be ready to counter that. So, before starting the take-off run be clear as to which direction you will need to apply rudder. A neat rule is “always apply rudder in the same direction in which the cross wind is blowing”. If you have a strong cross wind you will need to get the rudder effective immediately so you will need to apply a good handful of power with a good handful of rudder and, with a tail dragger, full aft elevator to stick the tail wheel onto the ground and improve steering power. Once the aircraft is moving, watch carefully to see if it’s going to swing into the wind direction – apply more rudder – or swing away from the wind direction – take off some rudder. If you have a tricycle undercarriage, push down elevator to force the nose wheel onto the ground to help with steering till the speed builds up to allow the rudder to take over at which point return the elevator to neutral. If you cannot stop the aircraft weather cocking into wind with full rudder deflected, you have just established the cross wind take off limit for your model! A way to overcome this is to get a helper to hold the tail, wind on the power so you have a good blast of air over the tail feathers and then nod to your helper (whom you will have briefed beforehand!) to let go – the aircraft should now shoot off . If you still can’t keep control of the take-off direction – don’t take off cos it won’t be possible to land easily unless you can land more into wind!

Fourth, particularly for high wing models, such as Wot 4s, a small amount of aileron into wind will help to prevent the wind “getting under” the wing and blowing you over. I do mean small deflection, otherwise, as you get airborne you will get a strong roll into wind.

Fifth, as soon as you are airborne return aileron and rudder back to neutral and then immediately use the rudder to steer the nose into wind to set up a straight flight path along the runway centreline all the time keeping control of your climb out attitude and rate of climb with your elevator and throttle respectively. Once on the right heading to track along the runway centreline, centralise the rudder. You can use bank to achieve this as well but remember that the judges will be watching to see if you keep wings level and will be ready to dock you a point if you don’t! That’s why you use the rudder – and, if you have been following along from the beginning of this thread you will have trimmed out the secondary effect of rudder so you only get yaw and not roll. If that’s new to you then reach back to page 1 and read the bit on trimming and setting up the aircraft.

Sixth, once you have climbed out on the runway heading to a slightly higher altitude than on a calm day, to make sure you are out of the worst of the ground turbulence, begin your first turn. For the Clubman this will be so that you have a 90 deg track to take-off direction to set up your square circuit. Remember to keep that nice controlled climb going till you are approximately half way along this leg of the circuit and then level off.

Seventh, the next move is the 90 deg turn onto the downwind leg making due allowance for the cross wind so that your ground track is genuinely parallel to the runway heading and your height is constant. Once you pass the halfway point on the downwind leg, your take off manoeuvre is complete and you can pat yourself on the back and get ready for the next manoeuvre.

There’s a lot to think about in a take off in a cross wind! Don't expect to look as smooth as when flying in a flat calm but with practice it will look good. Do it well and you get easy points when flying in competition. If you are just flying at your patch, it will impress your colleagues that you were able to exercise such control when they are being blown onto a flight path at least 45 deg to runway heading! That’s assuming they even wish to challenge the elements in the first place.

[Peter Jenkins]

Next, Landing. At the risk of stating the obvious, you must remember that the throttle controls height and the elevator controls attitude or speed. Again, think about what we want to achieve. That is, a steady and controlled descent at the right speed on the runway heading regardless of wind direction with the touch down in front of you without bouncing all over the place! That last bit is all about landing at the right speed and not forcing the aircraft onto the ground. Again for a tricycle undercarriage aircraft, as soon as you are on the ground you need down elevator to press the nosewheel onto the ground to improve steering.

For a tail dragger, instead of a full 3 point landing, you might consider putting the aircraft down on the main wheels and then let the tail settle in its own time while keeping the aircraft running along the runway centre line. This requires a very gentle relaxation on the elevator stick at the point of touch down.

Now, there are two techniques to landing with a cross wind. The wing down method, and the heading into wind method. More about this in a moment.

Remembering back to what happened straight after take-off, your departure heading was pointing into wind sufficiently to track down the centreline of the runway. It won’t surprise you then to know that’s the heading you need to establish for your landing. So, with that in your mind and, most importantly, remembering that you will need to have the aircraft pointing into the wind direction you are ready to set up your landing approach.

You have flown your last manoeuvre, which in Clubman is the 2 turn spin and are heading into wind. The first decision is which way to turn to start your downwind leg? If the wind is strong and blowing from behind you, and provided you did not end up with the spin recovery placing you too close to the runway, I recommend that you carry out your 180 deg turn by turning into wind. If you think you will be too close then turn away from the wind but think about it before you commit to that turn. It is all too easy to turn outwards and end up being blown way out of your normal circuit distance and then that puts pressure on you to recover. Equally, if you are too close and turn towards the runway you can cramp yourself. So, think about this as you are coming down on the dive out of the spin. If the wind is blowing into your face, always turn outwards into the wind.

The second decision is to set up your downwind leg with the correct heading to achieve a track that is parallel to the runway heading.

The third decision is whether you are at the right height, too high or too low. You deal with this on the cross wind leg. If you are too high, as soon as you have turned onto the crosswind leg, again using a heading that gives you a ground track of 90 deg to runway heading, close the throttle sufficiently to give you the rate of descent you need to intersect your normal landing pattern. Remember, the elevator should be used to hold the attitude slightly nose down so that with the throttle retarded, your descent angle maintains your speed. If you are too low, maintain your height until you feel that you are about to intersect the correct glide path and then retard the throttle.

The fourth decision is when to turn onto your final approach. This should be from no more than a 45 deg bank rolling out onto the desired heading. This is where the 2 techniques referred to above are different. More in the next post.

[Peter Jenkins]

For “the heading into wind method”, roll out on the heading that gives you a ground track that is the same as runway heading. Now, as you descend, you come through a wind gradient – that is, the friction caused by the lumpy bits on the ground (trees, buildings etc) slow up the wind speed. That also affects the wind direction. So, as you descend into this situation, your track along the ground will move to the upwind side of your desired heading and your speed will start to drop off a bit. So, maintain the track by rolling onto the changing heading and increase power a tad to check the increased sink rate.

If everything is going to plan you can now start thinking about the final two actions. These are to kick off drift so you land with the aircraft pointing down the runway, and you flare the aircraft into its landing attitude. It is best to flare the aircraft and then apply a squeeze of rudder (it doesn’t need much but it will take the aircraft a little time to react so don’t panic and ram on full rudder) in the same direction in which the wind is blowing. This is absolutely crucial since a wrong input at this stage will ruin everything. If that does happen – bu**er the points and overshoot and have another go. If you kick off drift too high, the aircraft will start drifting sideways across the runway so you need to kick off drift again and so on. If the wind is blowing towards you, you will hear the pattering of feet as everyone legs it because your aircraft is now heading off the runway towards them. If the drift is away from you then that’s less frightening for the on-lookers but not much help to you! Again, remember to squeeze in a slight bank into wind as you kick off drift to stop the wind getting under the upwind wing and blowing you over once you’ve landed.

For “the wing down method” begin your turn onto finals to bring you onto the extended centre line of the runway. Roll out on this heading and immediately roll the into wind wing down around 10 deg and squeeze opposite rudder to stop the turn that would otherwise result. You are now sideslipping into air and thus holding your ground track on the runway centre line. If you drift too much into wind, reduce the bank and rudder input slightly. If you are drifting downwind from the centreline, increase the bank and rudder slightly so that you regain that centre line and then adjust to maintain the approach path. You must remember to keep your rate of descent steady by use of the throttle and your approach speed substantially constant by adjusting the nose down attitude with the elevator. As with the other method, at the appropriate height start the flare and gently roll wings level and rudder centralised just before touch down.

In both cases, once you are on the ground, keep the aircraft running straight for at least 10 yards which is when the landing is deemed to be complete.

At this stage, if it’s a strong cross wind, don’t try and be clever and taxy back but kill the engine and get your helper to retrieve it from the runway having first established that it is safe to do so.

As you can see, the wing down approach is a bit more complicated to learn but either technique works. Again, if you find that you cannot exercise sufficient control over the aircraft’s drift once you have kicked off drift overshoot and have another go. It you still don’t feel safe landing on the runway centreline then land a bit more into wind but avoid the no fly areas when you do so.

The only other advice I can give is to start with small cross winds and practice well before moving up to stronger cross winds. Finally, remember, that you will have a cross wind limit as well as your aircraft having one. The chances are that you will run into your limit before the aircraft does but eventually you’ll get good enough to start to nibble at, what is called, the flight envelope of the aircraft and at that point you need to take steps to reduce the cross wind you are dealing with by landing into wind a bit more!

As you can see, there’s a lot more to think about in the cross wind landing than a cross wind take off but do your thinking before you get airborne and get it straight in your mind what your plan of action is to be – then, be brave, and follow it through! You will be really surprised how it soon becomes just another issue that you need to address during the course of your flight.

Yes, it is nerve wracking to begin with but keep practicing and the nerves will start to die away and you’ll have more time to think rationally!

[Masher]

Thank you Peter!

Where else can we get such a prompt and comprehensive response, for me this is exactly what I needed. I expect we all "know" some of this but I have noticed that I am not the only one that routinely struggles with landing. I have found that in recent months that one key point is having your engine set up correctly (Obvious really!). I don't fly much electric but have no trouble landing them, the trouble starts with IC; partly because of worries about dead stick and partly because of not getting the idle speed set properly. This is just down to discipline in set up, and having a decent engine.

Thank you again, I'll read this a few more times now.

Martin

Edited By Masher on 06/05/2014 07:35:46