Ever wanted to get into or improve your aerobatics?

[Peter Jenkins]

Woops posted twice so deleted the text!

Edited By Peter Jenkins on 28/07/2015 23:41:09

[Martyn K]

Hi Peter

Electric.. I haven't got anything suitable at the moment so I'll be starting from scratch. However, it will have to wait until the Aurora gets completed which will be at least another couple of months.

M

[Willyuk]

Well, thanks to my monolog 70 I passed the b test yesterday. I think it really helped me develop a smoother more precise flying style. It really is a great aircraft, I use an Hyperion motor and a 16x8 apc prop, as recommended by Chris Bond. On a 5s battery it has more than enough power so I can recommend that setup.

[Peter Jenkins]

Congrats Willyuk! Now, on with the Clubman practice! Now that you have achieved the B, as you work on the Clubman come back to the B every now and again and you'll suddenly find that the anxiety factor has waned and that you can pretty much churn it out when you want to. You may find you need to practise for a couple of flights to fly the perfect B but hey, it's a great feeling!

Peter

[Peter Jenkins]

For those of you who are unaware, the F3A (Precision Aerobatics) World Championship is currently taking place in Switzerland. The preliminary rounds have been completed and despite doing their level best our team has not reached the semi-final stage.

The Team positions are: Matt Hoyland 38th: Kevin Caton 57th and Keith Jackson 61st. Full details of the results to date are here and the semi-final and final results will be entered as they are completed.

There are also a number of videos of some of the top competitors flying the Preliminary Schedule (P15). The reigning world champion, France's Christophe Paysant Le Roux's flight video is here and his current closest rival from Japan, Tetsuo Onda is here.

Edited By Peter Jenkins on 12/08/2015 23:36:21

[SR 71]

Hi Peter thanks for posting that, lovely to see the top men flying the program

I could not see a smoke trail from CPLRs plane has he gone over to electic ??

Suprise our guys are so far down the list, why do you supose that is, lack of practise, or are the very top just gifted flyers

[Peter Jenkins]

Hi SR71, CPLR and Onda for that matter, continue to fly YS. I also noted the lack of a smoke trail on CPLRs flight but it's definitely a YS up front. Many of the other competitors seem to be flying electric and certainly the contra rotating prop brigade are all electric at the moment.

You might want to read what the Team Manager says about performance at the worlds in answer to your question. Take a look at the second post on this page. There is also the question of the climate and how kind it is to participants in their home countries. Consider what top athletes do when they go to high altitude training courses for months before a competition. There is also the issue of coaching. Even at entry level aerobatics, it's very difficult to find club members who are able to offer constructive criticism of your flight. As for how you could improve - well that's a whole new ball game.

You will see that the top dogs are France, USA, Japan and Germany give or take. CPLR has won the worlds 7 times I think and is currently leading this one but Onda Tetsuo, 2nd last time, is breathing down his neck. Look at who's designs are being manufactured and that also gives you a feel for where F3A is strong. I guess if we had an individual who won the world championships that would give F3A a fillip in the UK. As it is, I don't suppose that too many will be interested in the happenings in Switzerland this week.

Those who are should go and read the blogs from the Team and Team manager on the GBRCAA forum

[Masher]

Very interesting to watch!

Changing the subject to Monolog/Ionos, please can somebody advise on choice of servo?

On the Monolog, it is possible to use standard size servos all round so I have JR DS 811's in there as fitted by the previous owner. This all seems fine.

With the Ionos, the apertures are too small for std size servos. There is just enough meat in the wings to open out and fit standard ones which I have done. However, in the tail it is "not possible" without pain. The Rudder and Elevator servos are "hidden" in the tail end which is quite neat but awkward to work on (hard to explain). So.......... the easy way is to source servos that fit the apertures which are 35mm long by 15mm wide - I could just about open them up by about 1mm or so.

Just for a joke, I bought some of the ones recommended on the HK site - you guessed it, rubbish. A sorry purchasing tale I won't bore you with.

I have two issues: 1) finding good servos that will fit (2) deciding on what specification is required.

Any advice would be welcome, thanks in anticipation.

PS. Having broken my Monolog at a BFMA instructors/examiners training day (stupidity) I have "got to know" more about it's structure in the re-build process. I can now say that I think the Ionos is actually better build quality - although I haven't flown it yet.

Bad weather = too much waffle, sorry!

[Peter Jenkins]

Masher, the servo that springs to mind is the Futaba 9650 mini digital but it's a bit expensive at £54 per servo. Size is 35.5 x 15. On the other hand, these are used in 2 mtr F3A aircraft for the elevator (one in each half) and also for ailerons in biplanes with one for each aileron. They centre well and will give you great service. You will need some long Futaba servo horns but you'll know that from your Monolog experience. They are also only 26g in weight so you'll have half the weight of standard servos - another good point.

From what little I could see of the Ionos that a friend bought and my Monolog 70, I agree with you that the Ionos has a better structure. I hope it flies as well as the Monolog which I think is quite amazing. I can fly the FAI P15 schedule, the schedule in the video, but the aircraft is better than me and would fly it better with a better pilot!

[Masher]

Thanks Peter.

The HS-255MG seems reasonable and should just fit at about £16 each. I am in a phase of trying to buy better components so will consider splashing out a bit!

I also downloaded the spreadsheet listing all the equipment used in the 2013 F3A Championships - quite interesting and I was surprised that competitors didn't guard their information about set-up's a bit more.

[Kevin Caton]

Regarding our positions at the World Championship we got about the same scores relative to the leaders as in previous years - it's just that a few more people have squeezed in the gap. Over the last few years the widespread availability of top class aeroplanes (at a price!) and the reliability and consistency of electric power has brought many new fliers into F3A from other countries. Model flying in general is taken much more seriously abroad than in the UK and flying sites are often set up with the F3A box marked out. Junior members are much more prevalent abroad too and many people will have a view on why that is the case.

I would like more practice time and have no doubt that this would help. Equally, I don't go for the "gifted" argument. Countries like France, Germany, Austria, Italy and more recently Spain produce a succession of good pilots who progress quickly. Our best hope is to increase participation in F3A which will raise everyone's standards.

[SR 71]

Hi Kevin / Peter

My question was not ment to be detrimentle to our flyers as i think you all did very very well and congratulations on that, your explanation go's a long way to explaining to position

Im flying over to the UK tomorrow and ill be at the NATs at Barkston so i hope to watch and maybe meet you all there

Thank you

Tony

[Andy Green]

Hi Masher - where did you find that link, I'd be interested too.

Andy

PS are you going to the NATS?

[Masher]

Hi Andy

There is an Excel sheet buried somewhere - so well hidden I can't find the source but I'm sure it was from one of Peter's links. 

No not going to Nats, have fun!

Martin

Try this here

 

Edited By Masher on 14/08/2015 18:23:05

Edited By Masher on 14/08/2015 18:23:45

[Peter Jenkins]

Masher, it has been my experience in the short time I've flown in F3A that the pilots who compete are amongst the most helpful and pleasant you are likely to come across. I've not seen any egotistical types, although I've never been to a European or World Champs. If you break something on your aircraft there's always at least one person with a spare willing to lend it to you so you can get your flight done. They are also helpful in discussing how to resolve problems with flying manoeuvres. However, Kevin's post above flags up some fundamentals that I recognise only too clearly. If you don't get the fundamentals right then you are not going to be able to fly a solid schedule.

The other thing about guarding your information is that none of the info given in the table tells you much about how the model has been set up.  E.g. CG position, wing/tail incidence, control throws for different conditions/rates, the various mixes incorporated to tweak aircraft characteristics and so on.  And even if you have that, there is still the issue of how much time you are able to spend in practice and whether you have someone to provide informed feedback on how you can do better.

But at the lower end of the scale, you can have enormous fun with more modest equipment provided you work away at setting it up correctly.  Even a Wot 4 can be made to fly so much better than just sticking with the stock CG setup and too much control movement.

Edited By Peter Jenkins on 14/08/2015 21:37:11

[Peter Jenkins]

For those interested, the top 10 F3A World Champs results can be found here.

1st - Christophe Paysant Le Roux - his 8th title!

2nd Tetsuo Onda

3rd Stefan Kaiser

[Stuart Z]

Brilliant to have found this thread. Used to fly F3A back in the 90's - not entered comps but remember well the concentration when practising. The Modtech Calypso which was my main aerobatic plane was so fast and required a great deal of concentration. Will be watching for more on aerobatics.

[chris Bond - Bondaero]

Hi Martyn and Tony,

The Axiome 70 biplane wings are approx. 30mm thick at the maximum thickness on a chord of 270mm so reasonably thin at around 11%.

Yes we will be selling them Tony and expect to launch them at the Nats at an intro price.

[Peter Jenkins]

Hi Stuart, are you going to get back into F3A? You'll find that the current style is to fly more slowly than in the past. You still need to concentrate but not to just fly the aircraft. They are pussy cats to fly but flying the manoeuvre is just as difficult.

[Stuart Z]

Hi Peter.

It'll be a while yet but at some stage I will try and get back to it. I'm thinking though I have an old OS61RF (not the Prettner one) waiting to be sorted out. The Tx/Rx are being serviced at the moment.

I have to say I like the look of the older style models more than the newer so when I do, it may be a Gangster first then an Illusion style model. But it's been 25 years I'd guess since I flew a model so a bit of back tracking first.

[Stuart Z]

Not excluding the smaller 46 size Saphir in my loft bought all those years ago!

[Peter Jenkins]

Good luck with the come back. Worth doing a B even if you had one to get you back into flying practice. You will be able to fly the Clubman, Intermediate and Masters (this years anyway) with the older style models. Just watch the engine noise though as what was OK 25 years ago no longer cuts the mustard!

[Andy Green]

Hope the guys don't mind a shameless plug for classic aerobatics - UKCAA or on this forum.

Andy

Edited By Andy Green on 21/08/2015 12:36:59

[Stuart Z]

Hi

Thanks for the feedback - interesting point on noise, I used to fly in the middle of a farm most of the time - but the OS 61RF breathing out through the tuned pipe seemed a lot quieter than my ST90 and Irvine 61 for example, does anyone have any idea how these stack up against new noise requirements.

Thanks in advance

[Willyuk]

My os55 ax on a just engines tuned pipe was very quiet. Never had it measured but it was not at all noisy,