HOUSE SAFE?

[mervyn robb]

After hearing about the possible transport of lithium batteries in the hold of the ill fated MH370 Malaysian Airlines plane, my wife has been reading about my lipo batteries which are stored in my apartment. Do any of you keep your batteries in your house and would you be concerned about keeping them in your living quarters? I'm beginning to think that maybe they should be kept somewhere else and not in my home. Has anyone opinions on this

MERV

[Subalib]

I keep mine in a converted fridge that keeps them at 16 degrees Celsius. This provides them some protection from the Summer heat in my shed (45+ degrees C in Adelaide) and also I hope would contain any fire that might occur. Having said that I think the greatest risk with LiPo's is when they are being charged or if they are damaged in a crash.

[Phil 9]

"Malaysia Airlines’ missing Boeing 777-200ER had been transporting 200kg of lithium batteries among other freight on its ill-fated service to Beijing.

But there is no evidence that the potentially hazardous cargo contributed to the loss of the aircraft on 8 March."

I store lipos at my home along with petrol, oil and glow fuel. all pose some risk so I take care to store them in as small quantities as I need and in a suitable container

[will -0]

Posted by Subalib on 27/03/2014 00:42:44:

I keep mine in a converted fridge .................................and also I hope would contain any fire

I wonder what the refrigerant in your fridge is. Some commone ones are highly flammable.

[GrahamC]

I keep mine in an army surplus ammo box of steel construction with dividers made of correx. I reckon it would contain a fire.

The main risks with lipos would appear to be shorting, mechanical damage, and incorrect/over charging. Stored lipos don't tend to ignite, but if you go hunting for them, you will find stories on the internet claiming that has happened. At our field, the closest to that I have heard of is a lipo igniting some time after use.

The risk is very small, but with larger lipos especially, the consequence of a fire could be catastrophic. Therefore it seems sensible to me to store lipos in something likely to contain a fire.

[John F]

Most of the risks and charging precautions apply to ALL batteries so the fear is down to people on YouTube managing to set fire to a LiPo and tall stories of a "friend of a friend who . . . ."

The main advice is to store in a cool dry place with the intention to slow down degredation, rather than halt the risk of the battery blowing up the house. Some store in the fridge but advise to slowly warm up to room temp before charging.

There are lots of rumours about MH370, they have not released a cargo manifest though, although I don't think lithium batteries can fly an aircraft many thousands of miles in the wrong direction.

Edited By John F on 27/03/2014 08:41:15

[mervyn robb]

Thanks all for that. Obviously the contention is that storing in a suitable contained would seem prudent just in case. Mine are in a lipoguard pouch in my cloakroom as have nowhere else to store them in an apartment. Maybe I should be looking for somewhere a bit more secure and safe away from my living accommodation

MERV

[Mr.B.]

" I don't think lithium batteries can fly an aircraft many thousands of miles in the wrong direction."

You say that John, but my aircraft are lipo powered and they very often fly in the wrong direction.

I store lipos in an ammo box and only store them in the house when it is sub zero in the shed. I agreed lipo accidents seem to happen to some one who knows some one but better safe than explaining to Mrs B why the house burned down.

[mervyn robb]

An amusing reply Mr B but theres a message there

[Depron Daz]

All of mine are stored on shelves in my hobby room (spare bedroom). They are just sat there next to each other, and not in any metal tin or such.

[John Lee]

I use SentrySafe fireproof document cases to store mine.

[Dave Bran]

To generically rubbish people for stating "their friend had a problem " is as stupid as guessing what might have happened to MH370.

I can put you in touch with my friend (a vehicle engineer), whose charging LiPo went out of control in his attached garage while his attention was for a very short period focussed elsewhere. The flames got under the eaves and caught the main roof, set the loft and part of the upper story on fire, and the fire brigade water and ash trashed the rest. He was out of his home as it was unlivable in for nearly a full year, longer still to get straight again.

FACT

[avtur]

A UPS B747 freighter crashed in Dubai in 2010, the aircraft and both crew members were lost.

The investigation concluded that a fire had started in a pallet containing lithium batteries, the contents of the pallet had been damaged during the loading process, the damage was attributed as the starting point.

The subsequent fire generated smoke which ultimately filled the cockpit, the smoke caused the crew to loose control and crash. The American NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) have attributed the loss of this and two other cargo aircraft to the carriage of lithium batteries in recent years.

I keep my LiPo's in a clay wine cooler in the garage.

 

 

Edited By avtur on 27/03/2014 12:07:09

[Bandit]

What was the crew doing with the anti-terrorism doors open anyhow to let all that smoke in?

Give us a link to the facts as I agree with Dave Bran, there a lot of rubbish going on about LiPo batteries generally spread by people who 'heard it from someone'

I had a battery that puffed-up and the only way I could get a reaction from it was by being stupid and punching a hole through it with a screwdriver.

[John Lee]

This FAA document lists 141 aviation incidents involving battery fires, explosions or smoke production.

[Bandit]

Of those 144 incidents many were NiCad and Gel type batteries not only Lithium batteries.

I suggest the definition of insanity comes into play here:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

[Paul Jefferies]

As a relative newcomer to LIPOs, It would seem that most incidents have involved damaged batteries or batteries which are being charged or discharged at a high rate. Would I be correct in thinking that charging incidents only occur if the battery is either damaged or being charged at a high rate and that charging at the normal slow rate does not pose a danger? Does anyone know of incidents in which an undamaged LIPO has burst into flame whilst being stored or slow charged?

[Bandit]

You are right. The time that they are most vulnerable is charging/discharging. Slow is better on charging, 1C is what is recommended as the norm.

Think of them like loaded springs.

I have never heard of anything going wrong with a good LiPo but better safe than sorry so storage is an issue to be thought of carefully.

But this nonsense about all these issues with airliners in Insane!

[GrahamC]

That Lithium batteries have caused aircraft losses is not really a matter of debate. That they had anything to do with the sad loss of MH370 is at present pure supposition.

It only takes a few seconds on google to find the official report into the Dubai accident. It makes for sobering reading.

Its not considered an isolated incident either. This document of research commissioned by the FAA seeks to evaluate the likelihood of further accidents caused by Lithium Batteries and suggests and average likelihood of 6 accidents in the next 10 years if no mitigating action is taken.

That these accidents have occurred, isn't because Lithium batteries are 'flammable' as some news sources have unhelpfully suggested, but because they become unstable when subjected to shorting and/or mechanical damage. A pallet of Lithium laptop batteries can become dangerous if they are damaged by a clumsy forklift driver, or perhaps if they are not loaded securely and the cargo shifts.

One more link with details about NTSB evidence to Congress here explains why this issue won't go away, and provides the background for the growing number of postal services which won't carry them.[Royal Mail won't] See here]

[Mowerman]

The potential hazards associated with any (any type of) batteries are well known and I am sure that all airlines now carry them in suitable containers and in the cargo hold.

[Pete B]

Posted by Bandit on 27/03/2014 12:50:18:

What was the crew doing with the anti-terrorism doors open anyhow to let all that smoke in?

Give us a link to the facts as I agree with Dave Bran, there a lot of rubbish going on about LiPo batteries generally spread by people who 'heard it from someone'

I had a battery that puffed-up and the only way I could get a reaction from it was by being stupid and punching a hole through it with a screwdriver.

I don't know if cargo B747's have 'anti-terrorism' doors but it probably wouldn't have made any difference either way - here is the final report - it makes for very sober reading - and suggesting the crew were at fault is just plain out of order

Interestingly, of the 19 cargo items considered to be of special interest in the subsequent investigation, only one contained Li-Po's - the remainder were Li-Ion batteries or E-cigs. Should that tell us something about how experts view the potential hazards of the different types of batteries?

Pete

[Bandit]

Pete

[avtur]

Posted by Bandit on 27/03/2014 13:55:44:

But this nonsense about all these issues with airliners in Insane!

I think that is a little insensitive, two crew members lost their life in the incident I quoted, the NTSB determined that the cause was linked to damaged Lithium batteries in the aircraft cargo. (that’s not me speculating).

I wouldn't have thought an incident which caused two deaths is something to speak of as dismissively as your comment implies. 

Edited By avtur on 27/03/2014 16:56:30

[Bandit]

It isn't insensitive it is INSANE.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting something will change and if batteries are causing crashes why are they doing the same thing???????

SO take that as it implies - INSANE! That's not speculating that is FACT!

[John C]

Mine are stored in the house in both lipo bags and a metal document box. John Lee's use of a SentrySafe fireproof document cases seems an excellent idea but does take up a bit more space with their thick walls.

When charging, my lipos are in a pyrex casserole dish with a lid. This is fireproof and the batteries can be observed for puffing up.

Some chargers claim to be better at detecting faulty lipos e.g. Cellpro chargers which, as one of their checks, measure the voltage of each of the cells and will stop the charge if one cell differs too much from the others. They are excellent chargers but they are expensive.

Edited By John C on 27/03/2014 20:46:32