New TV programme

[BOB GADD]

New TV series on Quest, Thursday 14th August 2014.

Starts 10.00pm.

Classic British Aircraft.

BOB.

[David Gilder]

Cheers for that Bob,

Will get it on record!!

Dave

[Bob Cotsford]

new to Quest perhaps, but it's been kicking around on Discovery for donkeys, Interesting aircraft selections but all to brief.

[Graeme Poke]

Hi Bob, Gadd that is.

Is that a Dh71 Tiger Moth you are nursing ? If so any pictures and where did it come from? it looks fabulous.

Cheers Graeme

[BOB GADD]

Hi Graeme.

It is indeed a DH 71, it was a kit from J B Aviation, unfortunately it is not produced any more.

Here are a couple of pictures.

BOB.

And here it is with it's stable mate.

[Graeme Poke]

Thanks Bob, that is a lovely model. What are it's dimensions, engine, how does it fly and was there a plan? I live in hope.

And the other silver model is gorgeous as well. I don't know it, but looks very interesting. Thanks for humoring me.

All the best Graeme

[Kevin Fairgrieve]

The Tiger Moth is available as a plan from myhobystore. PLAN

Also in the book "Aircraft Workshop: Learn to Make Models That Fly" by Kelvin Shacklock.

A great book and a Model on my to do list.

kev

[Graeme Poke]

Thanks Kevin, I will chase it up. One of my mates has the Shacklock book. Graeme

[BOB GADD]

Hi Graeme.

No plan in the kit as it was CNC cut.

The wing span is 60 inches , 47 inches long, the engine is a Thunder Tiger 54 four stroke, it is a nice model to fly, it will do the full "B" schedule no problem.

The silver model is a DH 77 "Interceptor", only one aircraft was ever built,

.The wing span is 60 inches, the length is 48 inches, the engine is an RCV 58CD, a powerful engine and sounds lovely, the model is very fast on half throttle.

I did not build this model, I bought it off the for sale items on this forum, the person I bought it from did not produce a plan as such, he did it on odd pieces of paper, and he never kept them so no plans.

BOB.

[Graeme Poke]

Hi Bob, Thanks for all that info. Something to be going on with.

May be in retirement a couple of years away.

Cheers Graeme

[Erfolg]

Well I saw the programme, how many others saw it?

Yes, I know we have all seen it before, but I for one saw the programme in a slightly different light to previously, did others?

Take for instance, the comments on Duncan Sandys. In the 70s I thought he was so wrong on many levels, the idea that military aircraft would not have pilots. I could accept that aircraft would be better with missiles, than guns. He and his advisers both in the MOD and industry were also rather optimistic on that count. The one thing I thought he was right on is still not completely resolved. As we see on a regular basis, aircraft still often are able to avoid missiles by countermeasures, particularly if you know the missile system attacking you. Yet all in all, he was right in principal, just the time frame was about 50 years out, which in itself could have been disastrous.

The other, I used to watch in awe, the latest miracle from the UK aircraft industry. I did not realise, nor was any attempt made to explain that the aircraft could have been essentially part of a development programme for a different one.

Neither did I realise that the economy was still in transition from a war time footing to a peace time basis, and some of what was being done was to help in that transition. It is hard for me to remember that even in the early 60s, the rallying call was export or die. Nor did i recognise the impact that the independence of British Empire countries was having on UK exports.

I think there were at least two errors, intentional or not. The first that the Canberra was the worlds first jet bomber, as that was the Arado Blitz, being used to bomb the Remagen bridge and also initially in photo recognisance.. The second that the Martin Baker ejection seat was the first, again the Do 355, He 162 and apparently some Me 262, where springs and rocket assist were used to just clear the aircraft.

I do remember how proud i was as a youngster at the accomplishments of the UK aircraft industry.

Edited By Erfolg on 12/08/2014 09:24:12

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Posted by Erfolg on 12/08/2014 09:22:00:

Well I saw the programme, how many others saw it?

Wow Erfolg, I'm impressed. I'm going to have to wait until it's broadcast on Thursday, before I can watch it!

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I was a bit confused about that as well Chris!

BEB

[Erfolg]

The programme was on Monday, BBC 4, at 20:hours, "Jet, when Britain ruled the skies".

It was also scheduled 02:00 hrs today, although I generally hope to be asleep at that time.

This sort of programme is particularly interesting, as they often present current events, with a perspective, which subsequent events make us all aware how difficult predictions can be. My retrospective prepictions have generally been much better.

[BOB GADD]

ERFOLG.

Not the same programme.

BOB.

[Erfolg]

Oh, dear!

Still worth watching, as it does show our history, provides a hint to how we all perceived the world and the UKs place in it.

[Prop Nut]

Although it's correct that the Arado Ar234 was the world's first operational jet bomber, the history of ejection seats is a little less clear. Everard Calthrop, a British engineer, patented a compressed air ejection seat in 1916, and a Romanian inventor, Anastase Dragomir, designed a parachuted cell ejection system that was successfully tested in 1929. Heinkel and SAAB both developed compressed-air driven systems during the Second World War, and Helmut Schenk became the first person to make an emergency exit, in January 1942, when the controls of his experimental He280 iced up. The first operational aircraft to have ejection seats fitted was the Heinkel He219 Uhu night fighter.

[Erfolg]

You are certainly correct in saying that the history of the ejector seat is a long one.

My own vague interest came after seeing a German ejector seat in the Munich Deutsche Museum.

Which surprised me, as I had just accepted that the MB seat was the first.

There was a lot of blurb, which also mentioned the He 162, and so on.

After posting I then read up on the Internet about early ejector seats, to discover that there were a number of different methods used by the Germans from, springs, cartridges, compressed air, solid fuels rockets and combined methods.

There are claims that in WW2, 80 people were known to have been saved or maybe just known to have ejected from (German) aircraft.

The bit which i had skipped over that was perhaps most important, is that the work was backed up by physiology investigations to determine how many "g" can be tolerated and for how long. The next thought that I had, these test probably did not involve volunteers. I then thought how terrible, yet once the data has been gathered, you cannot easily ignore it, however unacceptable the method of deriving the information.

As you have pointed out, there are numerous examples of proposals for mechanised methods of ejecting people from aircraft, before the practical work done by the Germans. These range from the French and the USA and no doubts others. Now my gripe is, it is not true that MB made or tested the first practical ejector seats, however many times the claim is made. The credit and credit it is, MB has sold and developed their product, which has sold world wide, even to the USA.

Researching jet engines, is a similar story, starting well before Whittle or Von Ohain, although the devices were not intended generally for aircraft. The idea as a patent starting with a UK clergyman.

Edited By Erfolg on 13/08/2014 12:42:24