Peter Garsden Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I think that if you don't go to bed at all Steve it will be ready in 3 weeks. Just choose an easy scheme and use Solarfilm not paint, otherwise you won't finish by Christmas. Was looking at your blue foam. Presume you will wrap it in thin fibreglass cloth (1/2 oz per square yard - Blackburn Models do it) and then harden up with water based Deluxe Materials resin. That's what I would do. Will be a fab finish ready for Solarfilm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Cooke Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Looking good Steve, keep up the pace, you'll get there for the 11th October no probs!! It will be great to see another one of these active on the slopes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Balaam Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Hi Steve I'm looking to build one of these but am considering installing a brushless motor Could I ask if there is a canopy moulding available or are you going to shape one out of foam Regards Steve B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share Posted September 25, 2014 'Presume you will wrap it in thin fibreglass cloth ' - Peter - well the plan calls for skinning the side pods in 1/16th balsa, so I was planning to do that - partly because I already have the balsa which I ordered in bulk! But the fuselage is already starting to feel a bit heavy! It might be lighter with fibreglass cloth as you suggest. But then there's quite a lot of balsa to be removed yet, so maybe it's not too heavy yet?. Bearing in mind the 3 dimensional shape of these side pods, it doesn't look so easy to skin them in balsa. But I might start that way and see how it goes. Or I might just watch the Ryder Cup!! 'Could I ask if there is a canopy moulding available or are you going to shape one out of foam' - Steve - I'm not aware of a canopy being available - does anyone else know? But I am definitely planning a clear canopy because I've just bought some 1/10th scale pilots from vortex. I was assuming I would have to make a mould plug. I might try an attempt at moulding it myself with a lemonade bottle and a hot air gun, but if that doesn't work I'm told that my local model shop does a canopy moulding service (never tried it though). I'll report success (or otherwise!) on here so if it works I could always make another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kettle 1 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Record the Ryder cup Steve.Edited By Mark Kettle 1 on 25/09/2014 23:10:28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Well I got completely distracted by the golf last weekend! So now I have no chance of completing this build for the 11th. I've also been struggling with the process of skinning the side pods in 1/16th balsa. The side pods have a sort of 3D double curvature - not sure they should have, but that's how mine have come out! So it seems to me that I've got to cut various simple 2D shapes and to try to merge them together as best I can. It turns out that even soft 1/16th balsa is difficult to shape into the radii of the top and bottom curves, so I've had to wet them and hold them to a round former with elastic bands for an hour or two! Even then, they're not a perfect shape match. I've tried attaching the first with copydex - not very successful - it didn't seem to have the tensile strength to cope with the shape mismatch. The second I attached with UHU POR - a bit better but still not as well fixed as I would like. At this rate I could be spending the whole winter skinning these side pods! So my new target is the first Spring 2015 meet at the Orme! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Cooke Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Hi Steve, sorry to hear about the skinning probs - double curvatures are always tricky even with very thin veneer - what you'll find easier is to move to a process more akin to planking - cut lengths of your skinning material 1/4" wide, the whole length of the side cheek - and simply plank your way around bit by bit - you might be better going to 3/32" sheet to allow a little bit of material to sand the planking back round to a smooth curve once fully planked and dry. Try it - you'll be surprised how quick you make up the area even with only 1/4" strips. Sorry not to see the Gnat at the Orme next weekend, but I appreciated the golf too - and did no modelling that weekend - great stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kettle 1 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Hi Steve, best not rush-it...I'm sure it will be - *top dollar* - when done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I had the same problem with curving 2mm balsa round my P51D Mustang Steve. I looked up the problem on the net and came up with this article **LINK**and several choices Make up a mixture of either vinegar or ammonia 50/50 with half hot water and paint one side - the external radius with the solution. The above solution breaks down the structure of the balsa, makes it much more flexible and also holds it together to stop it breaking - worked a treat for me - the hot water is quite important - doesn't work when it is cold. You can soak the whole sheet in water for an hour then bend it round a former. That way the water soaks in. It is slower because you then have to let it dry before gluing it. The beauty with 1 and 2 above is that you can put PVA or other glue on the inside radius, and adhere it wet until it dries. The only problem with this method is that masking tape does not stick to water so you have to use pins or clamps. If needing to bend thicker than 1/16 say 1/8 use multiple layers of 1/16th one after another - I did this with the Hawk sides where I wanted to bend 1/4 inch and use multiple sheets of 1/8th - 2 that is according to my maths! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 This is the picture of my Mustang bendy bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 OK Thanks guys. I'm feeling more enthusiastic about it again. I shall try both methods this weekend and report back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Well I tried the hot vinegar solution method, and it did seem to improve the formability of the balsa. But my daughter objected to the smell! So I've finished off the skinning job using Phil's recommended planking method. This is the first side completed. The second side still has a couple of strips to do , which will have to wait till tomorrow night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kettle 1 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Nice balsa covering on side engine pods Steve, what type of glue did you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 'what type of glue did you use?' - I finished off with PVA (after the earlier attempts with UHU POR and Copydex had limited success). Finally got back to the build today. Having completed the skinning of the other engine pod, it was time for a bit of fuselage shaping! But First I had to bond the nose upper deck in place and temporarily tack bond the rear deck. I had to keep referring to my airfix model for guidance. And I also found that it's very difficult to shape in the 'channel between the side pods and the main fuselage side. Partly because my razor plane has about 1/4 inch edge distance outside the blade, and partly because the my sanding block keeps attacking bits of the plane which I wish it wouldn't! Anyway after an hour or two, and with a bit of filler in the groove, it now looks like this. I've decided that I've got the rear fuselage shape a bit wrong. The side pods should have faired out into the jet pipe a bit earlier, but it's too late now. I have also put in the wing attachment bolt and dowel. The plan shows the dowel being bonded into the blue foam fairing above the trailing edge of the wing, but I was worried that that may not be robust enough, so I've attached it to a balsa block mounted onto the trailing edge. The blue foam fairing will have to be shaped around all this. So, it's beginning to look a bit more Gnat-like: Just been preparing the fin and rear fuselage fairing for tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Houghton Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Steve, Good to see your latest progress. I'm still toying with a possible conversion of the Pavel Bosak F4 Phantom from D/F to PSS, or may change my mind to a Zlin 526 to veer away from the military theme. If I go with the Phantom, I will be coming to you for help with shaping the side pods! Steve H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Hi Steve, Why not make them both? The Zlin should be good for light winds and the Phantom for those seriously blowy days like we had at the Lleyn in August! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Today I fitted the tailplane bellcrank mechanism, elevator servo and pushrod. The tailplanes themselves are just temporarily fitted to check the movement. They still need a top skin then sanding to shape. They will need to be covered before glueing finally in place. Then with the rear fuselage deck glued back on, and the fin temporarily in place, it's starting to look even more like a Gnat. I'm even getting ahead of the airfix build now: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Houghton Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Steve, I think you made a good decision in reducing the wingspan nearer to scale size - it helps to preserve the character and 'gnattiness', which is beginning to show through your very neat build. Yes, the Zlin 526 was in my mind as a lighter wind performer, so I've sent for the plan from Traplet today, as well as Paul Janssen's F4-U Corsair. So now I'll have a choice of three subjects - the plan complexities will dictate which to start on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kettle 1 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Great progress Steve, looking good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Meade Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 She's a real looker Steve, and as mentioned, a very neat build too. Edited By Andy Meade on 20/10/2014 08:38:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 Thanks Andy. But I'm starting to get a bit worried by the weight. It's 24 oz as you see it there, but there's a lot to go on yet. The plan says between 36 and 40 oz - but that was with a bigger wing. So this might turn out to be my windy day model! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Cooke Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 would have been alright on Sunday, hey Andy?! (95mph on the Orme that day - I have a damaged JP to show for it!) You'll take more weight off yet with all those curves on the fus in need of final sanding, I wouldn't be too worried about the final AUW on this one it was definitely always over winged as originally drawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kettle 1 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Steve we are both at the same stage, what colour are you doing yours? Mines 26 oz with gear in and ready to sand, it may need a ballast box in for those windy days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I wouldn't worry about weight. My Alpha Jet was overweight because it was my first fibreglass fuselage, and I didn't scrape off enought resin when applying it. Nonetheless it flew quite happily in the 90mph winds at the Orme last weekend. It was just me that was uncomfortable because I couldn't stand up. It cuts through the wind like a knife. You need that sort of plane so you aren't messing up your trousers worrying about whether to launch your precious scale model. Most of Paul Janssen's designs are lost foam. I would definitely build one again. They end up so much more robust, and are much more adaptable to jet shapes than conventional balsa. They build quicker than Balsa I think. Give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 I think you're well ahead of me Mark! You've got a canopy already, and I can see that taking me a few weeks yet. Progress has slowed again - too many other commitments this weekend, and I've got a rotten cold - can't face sanding anything cos I can hardly breathe already! I have decided on the silver and fluorescent orange trainer scheme - have got he solarfilm now. Are you going to do this one in brown paper like the Vulcans, or just 'natural'? Peter, If you were up at the Orme last weekend, did you get to fly the new Hawk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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