Steve McLaren Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I should start with a few credits to recognise that I have shamelessly freeloaded off the hard work of Phil Cooke and Andy Blackburn and others? who have created the various scale improvement mods to the original Andy Conway plans, the wing patterns, and provided numerous instructions, hints, and tips in their build blogs. I have just followed along, but I've still managed to customise my version with a few mistakes! Mistake No 1: Wing Height in Fuselage I took advantage of the modified formers designed by Phil which reduced the taper in the fuselage through the cockpit area. I found that the heights of Phil's formers (particularly those at the front) were greater than those on my version of the plan (a later version), so I modified the shape of the fuselage sides to suit - raising the cockpit by 7mm and stretching the height of the air intakes. I was very pleased with this - thinking it looked more scale for the GR1 version. see plan below. But I left the wing exactly where it had been on the plan. It didn't occur to me until I reached this stage of the build that with the Tornado, it is important to position the wing at the right distance down from the top of the fuselage if you want the over-wing fairing and the wing glove to look right. So on my build, it all looks a bit chunky in that area. And the upper wing glove is going to have quite an obvious angle on it. I think I've also missed the opportunity to get that slightly nose down attitude that the GR1 should have. Anyway it's too late to fix now before April 11th so it will have to stay like that at least until next winter. Mistake No 2: Rear fuselage shape. I have also realised that where I thought I had done the shaping of the rear fuselage, I haven't got it anywhere near circular enough close to each jet pipe. There needs to be more curvature in the fuselage sides at the back end. But I'm now stuck with that un-removable pivot rod which gets in the way of additional sanding! As you can see I went for the plastic bottle method for the exhausts. Call me a skinflint if you must but by the time Rez came up with his very impressive design, I had already heavily invested in 2 bottles of Alberto Balsam, so I felt committed to the Blue Peter approach! On the positive side, I've just realised that one of the remaining weekends before the 11th April, is of course a 4 day weekend! So maybe my chances of being ready are better than I previously thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kettle 1 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Wow....you've moved that on Steve, looking good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kettle 1 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Wow....you've moved that on Steve, looking good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Cooke Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Looks good to me Steve - I think yours is further on than anybody elses!! Good to see one with the wing on - impressive!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Jones Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Steve, you've been holding out on us!! That looks really good and as Phil says, you're ahead of everyone else. I have to say those nozzles look the dogs danglies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Meade Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Ah, nozzles without the cheating, good stuff Steve Another Tonka for the April meet eh? Should be a good formation of the ugly blighters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Cooke Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 hey Tornados aren't ugly!! Warthog - now thats ugly!! I think the June meet will be much stronger for Tonkas as a few of them look to be too far behind the curve for April 11th - certainly now my second one is for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Meade Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 They are ugly as sin! I will feel left out again - this A10 has really put me behind on many builds. I wanted to get my Hawk done this year and that looks increasingly unlikely. Have you a colour scheme in mind at all Steve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Garsden Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I call that very sneaky Steve. Whilst we have been spending time taking pictures and showing off with fibreglass and foam, you have been beavering away. In reality it looks really good. Well done. By the way - I don't call those mistakes - just normal building tolerances for me. Do I think the Tornado is ugly? Yes until you get all the bits on and put it together. Only then does it look something like reasonable. Personally I am worried that there is enough wing area to keep it up in anything but a howling gale - we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Conway Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Looking good Steve,remember it's not full scale but what it looks like in the air who's going to spot the difference anyway, I also like the Blue Peter approach but that 3D printing sure is good. Peter don't worry about the weight within reason, you have take into account all that area of the fuselage in the center section trust me on that, be more concerned with the drag factor so weight for kinetic energy and some wind. Edited By Andy Conway on 18/03/2015 20:43:25 Edited By Andy Conway on 18/03/2015 20:44:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Blackburn Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Steve, I don't think the wing position is that noticeable, particularly if you're prepared to taper the top edge of the fuselage down towards the top of the wing. However, if it really bothers you, you could always add some strips of curved 1/8" x 1/16" to the wing seat(s) to raise the entire wing and then remove an equivalent amount from the above-wing structure...? Pete, I'd second what Andy said about the weight, particularly if you can avoid any extra drag-producing bits. My first one would float around on the west slope of Ivinghoe - carefully - in about 6 or 7 mph, it weighed about 38 oz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 Andy. C,: After re-reading my initial posting from last night I realise that my planned credits did not fully recognise the main man in the whole thing. So please accept my apologies. Of course the biggest credit should be to you for the original design we are all working from. My build may look quite advanced, but that's something of an illusion. For that photo It was all pinned together and I still have no tailplanes, no thrust reverser cowels, no bottom sheeting on the intakes or the wide part of the fuselage, missing some doublers on the fin, and no pilots and no cockpit furniture! Well actually I do have some pilots but that's another story. When I was in my thrifty mood, I ordered the standard 1/16th scale 'bust ' pilots from RMP. I figured 1/15th or 1/16th - surely nobody will see the difference. But now that they have arrived (and very nice they are too - I am certainly not casting aspersions on the quality of RMP pilots - this is just a comment on my choice of scale) they are looking a little small! I think my Tornado is going to look like its being flown by a couple of 10 year olds! And they may have no seats to sit on! Andy M: I don't know how you can see the Tornado as ugly. For me, certain planes are just icons of British aviation history and they define their own style! No need to feel left out - if it gets there, you can fly mine! Peter G: I was starting to worry about weight too. Mine is at 27oz as shown in the photo above, without all those various missing bits plus covering and paint and battery and Rx and 2 wing servos..etc. I think Andy B said that his first one weighed 37/38oz all-up, and that would only fly well in a good strong wind. I think I'm heading for the same sort of weight, and as I understand it our wings have been scaled down a bit! We'll just have to trust Andy C - he should know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 Mark, I forgot to ask - what's the news on the EPP version? I may have been quiet,but you have been too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 Andy: yes I guess raising the wing wouldn't be too difficult. I just don't think I've got time to do it now. Since the over wing fairing was quite thick, I built it up with a few depron spacers. Also I went for a conventional dowel and single wing bolt arrangement, so that's another complication. I think I'll just keep going and see how it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kettle 1 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Thanks for the interest in the EPP version Steve, problem is working on trying to get Avro aeroworks open again for Alliott Verdon Roe, or in other words very busy with the Vulcan kits. I'll see what I can do to start a build blog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Conway Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Steve: no need to apologize, I'm just fair chuffed that many have come on board with their builds thanks to Phil. Way back in the 90's I had a fixation on the Tornado and built about 6 all different sizes, and rest of our club would say not another one Andy. Now I'm 75 and Phils got me building another two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 That looks very impressive Andy. Presumably the swing version is heavier again the the fixed wing? Do you remember the weight of the heaviest one you have flown? And what happened to all the earlier versions? Are they still flying? And will they be appearing in April? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Cooke Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Looking great that Andy! - your best one yet??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Conway Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Steve: the heaviest was over 5lb. but a lot larger and still flew well but no swing wing. Phil: the one in the photo is only a trial fit of the wing mechanism, this be used in the GR1. EDF/PSS version more on that later. As can be seen in the picture the wing is not fully swept as this fuselage requires a different layout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McLaren Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 I've managed to construct the 'wing glove' and it doesn't look too bad. I found this a bit tricky as there's not much detail on the plan, but in the end I found that if you make a sort of extension rib for the root end, which fits over the wing leading edge, and then make a diagonal leading edge brace, it gives you something to build onto. I used depron again for glove panels because its much easier to form to shape than balsa. And I supported it with thin triangular mini ribs between the wing upper skin and the fuselage sides, to get it to meet the top of the over-wing fairing (at least for a few centimetres) You can see that I've finished the tailplanes too. I've also finished sheeting the bottom of the fuselage, and done a very sparce and simple cockpit fit out ( there's no way I could compete with Phil's, even if I had all the time in the world)! I just need to do those thrust reverser cowls and I'll be ready to start on the solarfilm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Cooke Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Nice one Steve - looks awesome - very nicely done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Jones Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Wow Steve, that looks every inch a Tonka, great work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Blackburn Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Oooh! Excellent work, Steve. Good pictures as well - very inspirational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kettle 1 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I like it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Cooke Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Steve can I ask - how are you going to finish the bits you've added in depron prior to covering are you glassing or coating them with some epoxy resin? Presume you are busy covering like me at the moment - finish line in sight, just! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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