Colin Leighfield Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I see what you mean Stephen, I hadn't thought of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Nothing wrong with being a bit conservative as far as construction goes but if you make the booms out of Depron as well then sticking them to a Depron surface wing is no problem.. My admittedly slightly smaller DH Venom has no wood in it what so ever - everything is just Depron. The larger and much heavier (22oz) Cessna Skymaster does have balsa spar flanges in the wings but its tail booms are just Depron so can be safely just glued in.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stewart Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Hi Stephen, Thanks for sharing the build. Do you have anything covering the wing, appart from depron of course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Hi Simon, My in door version has no wood in the booms and are just glued on and for it`s small size and weight .i can not see a problem with it, although there is some flexing as the boom gets thinner near the back . As there is less material to support the weight of the fin and tail plane plus the loads under flight conditions i decided best to air on the side of caution and fit carbon rod for this one as it will be going a lot faster and be put under greater loads. I intend to let my son have ago at flying it . and if i know my son he will be throwing it about the skies for sure. I like to build and may end up building several of them to learn how best to use this material and so i will no doubt be calling upon you're expertise in this matter . Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Hi Jim, So far there is nothing covering the wings just Depron and it seems to be up to the job having tried flexing and bending it , When finished i will then decide how best to go about decorating it having evaluated its weight . There will be some gaps that will need filling and i could not find any light weight filla at my local DIY Centre . So i am considering mixing Poly c and Micro balloons to make a light weight filla . Has anyone tried this ? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stewart Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Cheers Stephen! Try Polyfilla "One Fill" if You have a B&Q nearby. Works mixed with Poly C. I tried covering with brown paper and water based varnish. Very strong (and cheap) but with a weight penalty. Nice and waterproof for my Flying Boat though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Thanks Jim, I tried all the pots of filla at my local B&Q for weight as i was told to check for the one that feels empty as that is the one to chose but they all seemed to be heavy . so i left with a tube of glue instead. Bostick Glu&Fix, i have tried it of some depron and it seems to be ok, but is a lot slower than UHU Por . Has anyone tried an alternative to UHU Por ? Steve Nice model by the way, Edited By Stephen Jones on 20/06/2015 20:57:17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY DAVIES 1 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Stephen, Lightweight filler in 'Wilkos' A big pot for £3 odd also smaller one in B&M for less. Has anybody tried to bulk up lightweight filler with any thing. It smells of Emulsion paint which I think is the carrier and the rest is possibly 'micro balloons' or an equivalent. Magic stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Bertram Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Building one of Rich Harris' Whippit autogyros in epp and didn't seem to get on with UHU por but had some Thixofix in the cupboard. Worked a treat and seems a much stronger bond. Perhaps my UHU was a bit stale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Posted by Stephen Jones on 20/06/2015 20:56:37: Thanks Jim, I tried all the pots of filla at my local B&Q for weight as i was told to check for the one that feels empty as that is the one to chose but they all seemed to be heavy . so i left with a tube of glue instead. Bostick Glu&Fix, i have tried it of some depron and it seems to be ok, but is a lot slower than UHU Por . Has anyone tried an alternative to UHU Por ? Steve Nice model by the way, Edited By Stephen Jones on 20/06/2015 20:57:17 I use evostick spray carpet glue for large areas of sheeting, a smear of UHU Por on the rib edges, then go out the back door and spray the inside of the sheet - never ever do it inside, it comes out a very fine silly string and goes everywhere!) then press them together.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Cheers Dave, I use evostick spray carpet glue for large areas of sheeting, a smear of UHU Por on the rib edges, then go out the back door and spray the inside of the sheet - never ever do it inside, it comes out a very fine silly string and goes everywhere!) then press them together.... Thats the solution i was looking for ,i have only completed one wing and found it a pain to mark where all the ribs ,spars and edges are , then spreading UHU Por on , then again in the edges of all the ribs ect, Needless to say i have run out of UHU Por . And in need of an alterative i can get locally. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Hi Bob, Posted by Bob Bertram on 20/06/2015 22:29:57: Building one of Rich Harris' Whippit autogyros in epp and didn't seem to get on with UHU por but had some Thixofix in the cupboard. Worked a treat and seems a much stronger bond. Perhaps my UHU was a bit stale i have just had a look at Thixofix . And it seems to be the similar to Bostik Glue&Fix. 10 to 15 minutes drying time before bringing the two surfaces together. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I've used Uhu Por a lot, but currently using Deluxe Materials Foam Friendly adhesive and find it very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McG 6969 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Hi Stephen, hello to all, Sorry to jump in 'uninvited' but I thought this could be of help to some of you regarding finishing techniques for foam. This method is not really intended to add some structural strength though, but still very applicable where no lamination is required. Freddie B's Secret Sauce... Not such a big secret, as Freddie B - an American foamie guru - himself talked about it in an RCgroup’s earlier thread. Here are some photos to help 'show and tell' in case some of you'd want to try this. Basically, it’s a filler & primer coat (all-in-one) that doesn't weigh much but works really well. He does this on his foam builds often when there is no covering, lamination or other coating involved. While many have been amazed by Fred’s finished airframes, this was the process he used. Let’s have it in sequence. 1). Take some light weight spackle (Polyfilla or cellulose based filler) and put a nice size plug in a little mixing bowl. This time the plug of filler is about the size of a nut. 2). Next add some Polycrylic clear varnish (water based of course), about the same volume as the plug of light weight spackle. 3). Get some Talc Powder. Baby Powder or Foot Powder, but the Baby kind smells best… Watch out because many powders are Corn Starch, which we don't want! Talc is the magic that made balsa filler work in the old days of tissue and dope finishes. It is very fine and does a great job of getting those tiny imperfections filled, but sands away nice. Note the 'pile' of powder about equals the volume of the light weight plug we used too. 4). Add two or three drops of acrylic paint (craft paint, water based), and it can be white paint, but often you can use a colour to see the work in process and the finished results shows up better. Anyway, use a colour that works for your intended top coat. Light for light topcoats, gray for everything else. You can use Yellow in the primer if you are painting Yellow top coats, because Yellow (and Reds) don't always cover well. 5). Now mix it well. It is very thick, but get it creamy and all one colour and texture, working out any chunks. Now add water until it is like very thin whipping cream, thin shaving cream, or even thinner like a very thick paint. Brush this on your pre-sanded foam, making sure to completely wet everything and force mixture into any hollows, dings, scratches, etc. Let this dry. Then sand it all with some 180 grit, and 220 grit papers, mounted to some sheets of beaded white foam. The foam sanding blocks are flat, but 'give enough' to not cause grooves and scaring. Just make sure to remove sanding dust often and use a reasonable pressure while sanding. When you have sanded most of this formula away, you will see some original foam, but also many areas of filled and flush mixture and the surface will be very smooth. Little weight gain, yet ready for top coating with paint. You can sand with even finer papers, depending on what top coat paint you will be using. This is good enough using craft paints, but if you intend to spray with Model Master or Tamya paints, you could go to 320 or 400 grit paper. All three kinds of paint work well with this process. I’m truly convinced by Fred’s method and really worth trying this out on a piece of scrap foam or Depron. Last photo is a sample on a scratch build FFF (Folding Fan Foam) Russian Mig that Freddie B built with his filler/primer method. Happy filling Chris Brussels / Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Thank you McG 6969, For taking the time to post the above, That is very good helpful advice . Thank you Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 My build had come to a stop as i have run out of UHU Por . I have not been able to get to a model shop to get some more , but i have now got some UHU Creative Moosgummi and UHU Creative Styropor . From a arts and craft shop in manchester. Which is the same stuff . So i can now continue with the build Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Didnt realise you were in Manchester too!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Well, in between Oldham and Manchester , Chadderton the better end . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hopkin Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 lol, I shall be flying up near you tomorrow (weather permitting) - Greenhills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Is that Greenhills near Glodwick Dave ? Edited By Stephen Jones on 22/06/2015 23:06:52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Ok now i have some glue on with the build, Ok i know it looks a mess, just shows i am a real builder , But no seriously it is so you can see the clear plastic i am using, Well we all have to recycle these days, separating the cardboard from plastic and so on . Well i keep some of the clear plastic to use on my models . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 You've cheered me up no end, I 'm the biggest mess going so perhaps that means that I am a builder after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 I learned the hard way when building indoor models that thin Depron bends rather than snapping , So i have decided to build the Fins out of two 2mm sides Depron and sandwiched in the middle is the clear plastic which will act as a flexible stiffener. Hopefully you can see the five parts that make up the boom and Fin . Two 2mm Depron Fin `n` Boom and Two 5mm Depron Boom sides and the clear plastic. I have a 4mm Carbon Rod inserted into the boom . Simon will probable disapprove of this . And i have found the cheap glue spreader very useful for this type of glue as you can just peel it of when dry. Not so bad , Light and just flexes enough to prevent the fin snapping off , Well Hopefully that is . Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 That's a good idea Steve. Also try laminating with a piece of 1/32" balsa if you get the chance, it really makes a difference. Perhaps not as ultimately resilient as plastic, but even so it seems to be surprisingly effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Cheers Colin, Ok, now that the wings are finished . it`s time to move back onto the body. And then the tail plane , i am thinking possibly built up from three layers so that i can hide the carbon rod stiffeners. Or one think sheet of Depron with the rods just glued onto the edges , these rods would also fit into the booms so that the plastic will help support the weight and take the strain . How do you think i should construct the Tail Plane one sheet or more ? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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