Jamie sawyer Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Evening gents, I have bought the engine above. I have adhered to the instruction and mixed a 25/1 petrol oil mix. I have tried everything in my eyes to start this engine and not even a pop. Well there was at the very start but it certainly didn't take.. it was just a fire pop about 2 or 3 times and after that it just hasn't done it since. I have even bought an electric starter to try and get it going but not even a fire from it while trying this. I have always flown glow and was very excited about the prospects of a petrol but I am some what disheartened slightly. The spark plug is getting a spark. Fuel is getting to the carb. I have the low needle at 2 turns and high end needle at 2 turns as per instruction ..... There is 100% fuel getting to the carb....and a spark... I just don't understand how it is not taking. Running an 1100 mah 4 cell pack as ignition with a battery monitor installed so the battery is not the issue either. PLEASE HELP any suggestions are welcome please Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi Jamie Try lipo with volt regulator. The Nimh batteries don't deliver enought "power" unless they are full. That's why you had a couple of pops at the beginning and then nothing. Another option would be the old NiCad, but with lipos around I wouldn't botherEdited By AVC on 11/01/2016 21:12:05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Colbourne Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 You could try putting a disc on instead of the prop with a line which is vertical at top dead centre, and use a timing light to establish that the ignition is firing around about the right time. There are also various devices available which you can use to check the strength of the spark when the plug is in the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 What if I try fully charging the battery again AVC ?? I have 3s 1p lipos here .. 3 of them to be precise. Would that do with a volt regulator installed ? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Jamie, you could try with the battery fully charged, but the problem is that the engine is not broken in, so before it fires the battery probably will loos "punch" Opto kill switches normally would accept 3s but you only need 2s for the same result. For testing purposes you may try with one 3s but if it works I would install a 2s in the modelÂÂ Edited By AVC on 11/01/2016 21:34:37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 The spark plug is most definitely getting power as when I turn the prop with plug out it is sparking with a click noise to it. I will order a voltage regulator if it will help ... any suggestions as to where ? I just want this thing running or I will need to return it to Hobby King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 I have fresh fuel straight from fuel station last week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Are you sure fuel is getting through? My first experience with a petrol engine was similar. It took ages to get it going and I was so glad to have the help of the club petrol engine expert. We squirted neat fuel into the carb venturi. turns out the membrane in the carb needed to be thoroughly soaked with fuel before it would pump properly. Once we got the engine going subsequent starts have been a doddle. I'm running my ignition on 4 NIMH low discharge cells and have had no issues at all doing so. No issues after a day of flying. If you want to rule out the lack of punch in the spark though, you could use an old speed controller if you have one with a BEC built in lying around. In terms of fuel... I run only the more expensive Shell V Power. Made a whole 1000 RPM difference over the Morrison's normal petrol. I do't think it will make that much difference with starting though. Edited By GrahamC on 11/01/2016 21:56:58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi GrahamC I have done that also. I manually fed fuel into carb as it was as you say very sluggish to draw fuel from the tank at first. It's not now and as soon as I give the electric starter a buzz on the spinner you can see the fuel flow at speed up the fuel tube. On the engine there is a short tube that comes out of the carb and into the engine and it is definitely dry of fuel. Is this normal as I would have thought I should have seen fuel in it also ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Whybrow Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Tht pipe is almost certainly the impulse line that operates the fuel pump using crankcase pressure pulses; there should be no fuel in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Thanks Martin just checking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 I just ordered one of these so I will try my Lipo as power when it arrives and hopefully that will be it, god willing !! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Etronix-4-8V-Voltage-Regulator-5A-ET0555-/252126365826?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 2s Life battery 6.6v will be o.k on it Jamie, no need for regulator then, then you can tuck it away and no need to remove to charge. John Edited By john stones 1 on 11/01/2016 22:21:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braddock, VC Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Try opening up the low speed needle. Record how much you do it. Try a quarter of a turn at a time. If that doesn't work try closing it in. Final cheeky question you did open the choke after it popped didn't you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Colbourne Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Posted by Jamie sawyer on 11/01/2016 21:36:56: The spark plug is most definitely getting power as when I turn the prop with plug out it is sparking with a click noise to it. Jamie, a spark at atmospheric pressure (plug out) is no proof of a spark when under compression with the plug in the cylinder. A broken wire in a coil or a weak capacitor can easily be the difference between starting and not starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Posted by Robin Colbourne on 11/01/2016 23:40:29: Posted by Jamie sawyer on 11/01/2016 21:36:56: The spark plug is most definitely getting power as when I turn the prop with plug out it is sparking with a click noise to it. Jamie, a spark at atmospheric pressure (plug out) is no proof of a spark when under compression with the plug in the cylinder. A broken wire in a coil or a weak capacitor can easily be the difference between starting and not starting. Fully agree with Robin. In fact, the spark plug should not be tested this way (turning the prop with the plug out), as this can kill the ignition. If you do so (I wouldn't do it...), ensure that the plug is in contact with the engine, although the safest way is using an ignition tester like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Ok thanks guys, with regards to John Stone. Wouldn't a 6.6 volt battery unregulated damage the electronics ? It states max voltage of 4.4 volts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Posted by Jamie sawyer on 12/01/2016 07:28:48: Ok thanks guys, with regards to John Stone. Wouldn't a 6.6 volt battery unregulated damage the electronics ? It states max voltage of 4.4 volts ? You're right Jamie. Some ignition units accept 6 volts or even 7.2 (so the can be run using 2cells lipo), but it seems that the one in the NGH is rates at 4.8, and in this case you cannot exceed that voltage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Thanks AVC, my mistake its 4.8 volts. I thought I had best ask in case I was missing something. The voltage regulator is ordered so I will report back when it arrives but I'm sadly not convinced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 My mistake Jamie, I looked it up on H.K and it said 4.8-8.4v John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgar Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 My Evolution 26 was difficult for me to start until someone at the club with experience of petrol gave me some tips. It needs a powerful starter (and battery) that will turn it over quite quickly, it also it helps if I put a teaspoonful of petrol in the carb, and then turn the engine over a few times by hand (ignition off!) to make sure its really wet in the cylinder before switching the ignition on and applying the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Hi everyone. the voltage regulator arrived this morning and I wired it up with my 3s 1p and have the engine a whirl for 2 minutes on the electric starter. I didn't spend very long in fairness trying but for the short period that I did try there was no fire from the engine. I'll have a go again tomorrow in the daylight. Is there any other possibility that could cause a petrol not to take ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie sawyer Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Just a thought but would it be worth my while to take the plug out and drip a small amount of fuel direct onto the piston through the plug port just to be sure the fuel is getting in ?? Its just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymaz Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 You may have done all these... No kinks in pipe work and felt clunk ok Is the vent pipe open to air Is the plug cracked damaged Does the plug cap sit tightly, is there a locking spring ring? Have you opened the carb up (according to JE it's a Walbro) to check for a sticking diaphragm, dirt in the filters, is the float needle at the correct height Does it have a pulse port, if so is it open and clear? Check the pipe is not damaged or split Sorry if you have done all this but that would be my list Also I know my petrols like to have a bit of fuel dripping from the carb after priming. Then choke a few flicks, half choke then they fire I also don't use supermarket fuel Edited By cymaz on 14/01/2016 06:27:49 Edited By cymaz on 14/01/2016 06:28:38 Edited By cymaz on 14/01/2016 06:32:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 As Cymaz says, try and prime the engine properly until you can see a bit of petro dripping. Don't put petrol trough the plug hole because this could flood the engine, and potentially damaging it. If you have another plug, try to use it. The plug may be damaged or the gap be too narrow or too wide. Have you adjusted the needles? If so, how many turns? What is the position of the throttle when you try to start up? Does the tygon has the right section? It would be useful if you described in detail your start up process step by step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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