john melia 1 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Hi guys , its been a while since i was last logged in , but i have a bit of a rant ..... i think i have just purchased the Black Horse 60cc Corsair , i havent received it yet , but thought i'd download the manual and see whats what Now this artf has just cost me £750 from kings lynn models , and according to the manual it comes complete with ........ wait for it ......... CYNO HINGES !!!! I would have thought for an ARTF in this price range it would have been supplied with robart hinges , now i know its no big deal to change the hinges .... but really .... should i have to on a kit like this Not a very good start in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 cyano hinges will be perfectly satisfactory. I use them in all my 80'' warbirds and I had a 90 inch spitfire some years ago that used them too. That spit had 3 cyano hinges holding the rudder on and it was strong enough for me to pick up the whole 22lb model by the rudder. If they are fitted correctly and are of good quality they will be no problem at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Sorry Jon, although its rare, on this occasion I disagree I've had several of the mylar hairy hinges fail on me, particularly on big aircraft. I'd use the Kavan split pin hinges with 30min epoxy and of course pins/sticks. Also, watch the back end of the fuz John. Make sure you inspect and re-enforce the tail and sternpost, as these are know to be weak spots on the 60cc Corsair use 3 hinges per surface. Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stainforth Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 In my experience, "mylar" hinges that come with ARF's are a mixed bag. I have several planes with three to four hundred flights on them that still have their original mylar hinges, whereas on others the "mylar" hinges split up after far fewer flights - I think the hinges were some kind of inferior mylar substitute. I have to agree with the OP that on a model of the cost and size such as his pinned hinges are the preferred choice. I think the manufacturers include these as a cost saving measure, knowing that most buyers will substitute them for something better - at their own expense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Without doubt quality of the hinges is a critical factor. I use the great planes ones where possible and have never been let down. I also use the hinges that come with my YT models without issue. My YT La7 is entering its 7th season and that model gets quite the spanking when I fly it. The only hinges on the model that are giving me concern are the rudder hinges which are the robart type and have started to get some play in them. I am monitoring them and will replace when I think they are becoming unsafe. Given that control surface sizes, deflections and loads on warbirds are quite small good quality cyano hinges will be just fine if you use enough and install them correctly. For a 3d model of the same size they aren't much good as you not only cant get the travel range you need but control surface loads are quite a bit higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I would use pinned hinges on a model this size/ Mylar hinges are fine in a model upto a .40, but not bigger. You get a bit of a flutter then the whole lot is finished... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john melia 1 Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Posted by Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 22/01/2017 09:25:42: Without doubt quality of the hinges is a critical factor. I use the great planes ones where possible and have never been let down. I also use the hinges that come with my YT models without issue. My YT La7 is entering its 7th season and that model gets quite the spanking when I fly it. The only hinges on the model that are giving me concern are the rudder hinges which are the robart type and have started to get some play in them. I am monitoring them and will replace when I think they are becoming unsafe. Given that control surface sizes, deflections and loads on warbirds are quite small good quality cyano hinges will be just fine if you use enough and install them correctly. For a 3d model of the same size they aren't much good as you not only cant get the travel range you need but control surface loads are quite a bit higher So how do i define good quality in a mylar hinge Jon , are the black horse mylar hinges good quality ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stainforth Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I don't like to say it, but the worst "mylar' hinges I have had came with a Black Horse model - an Edge. They starting breaking up after just a few flights. They seemed very brittle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Like the 2011 Galloping Ghost crash. Things were changed that contributed to the crash. Although a long video, it is very interesting and kudos to the NTSB for a thorough investigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Smith 1 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 To honest with you John, I would ditch them and invest in some Robart pin hinges. Better not to risk a plane like that for a pound or two extra. I must admit anything over 30cc that I have bought in the past has had Robarts in and so I am a bit surprise the BH one has Mylar hinges. Belt & braces mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marsh Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Also use a twin battery system, a suitable rx, such as the Spektrum AR12100 Powersafe and 2 6v 3300mah + plus NIMH or Lipo's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Posted by Paul Marsh on 22/01/2017 10:56:08: I would use pinned hinges on a model this size/ Mylar hinges are fine in a model upto a .40, but not bigger. You get a bit of a flutter then the whole lot is finished... If you have flutter occur it wont matter what hinges you have, but flutter is only a problem normally with badly set up linkages/inadequate servos. As for quality I admit that is tricky to test but tell tail signs of naff ones would be if the mylar has another layer of 'fluff' attached on top of it. You can usually tell as the edges are rarely stuck down. If in doubt, sub the great planes ones, or use the robart type if you feel more confident. There is a tendency to over do the spec on models of this size. Yes its big/powerful but its not monster size and if you have the ability to use two batteries then fine, but if not don't worry. All of my 80+ inch models use 1 rx with a single 3000+ Mah NiMh sub C cell battery pack through a heavy duty futaba switch. I then use unremarkable servos (usually savox) in the 4-9kg range. Some are digital, some are metal gear but its not really that important. if you have 6.5kg on each aileron, and 6.5-9kg on elevator (depending on elevator size, twin or single servo setups etc) and 9kg on the flaps you will be fine. My La7 has a 4kg servo on rudder as does my Sea Fury. My P39 has a 4.5 as the rudder is quite big. I have never had any trouble with blow back, flutter or any other control issue and the 3000+ battery is good for at least 10 flights of 10 minutes although this will of course vary model to model My only word of caution is that my setups are intended for those who will fly their model within its performance envelope and in a scale sort of way. For those looking for full throttle power dives and attempts on the air speed record then some changes would have to be made. Edited By Jon Harper - Laser Engines on 22/01/2017 12:31:41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josip Vrandecic -Mes Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 @Hi Paul Marsh, impressive video , and I learned something important again . Thank you for sharing indeed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Never had a fluffy one fail myself, i like them, it's about what feels right to you though when all's said n done. Warbirds and scale like flying ? only ones flying smooth and gracefully where the ones getting shot down the rest where wringing every ounce of performance out of them in an effort to stay alive. John Edited By john stones 1 on 22/01/2017 14:17:03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Posted by john stones 1 on 22/01/2017 14:15:32: Never had a fluffy one fail myself, i like them, it's about what feels right to you though when all's said n done. Warbirds and scale like flying ? only ones flying smooth and gracefully where the ones getting shot down the rest where wringing every ounce of performance out of them in an effort to stay alive. John Edited By john stones 1 on 22/01/2017 14:17:03 you know what I mean. no 3d spitfires were ever made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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