Electric Round The Pole

[Nightflyer]

I thought I would start this thread off the back of a weekend of fun with my family flying electric round the pole models in the garden, and the realisation that I have been on and off for nearly 40 years now and got to thinking how many either still do, or have in the past, or what had become of RTP flying - certainly in the UK at least.

I first became aware of RTP flying as a boy when there was an article in a Keil Kraft catalogue about RTP and converting rubber models to RTP written by Harry Butler. I was intrigued at the time as I was into control line and just starting to develop an interest in rc.It was when in 77 that I went to the Model Engineer Exhibition and witnessed it for the first time and then at Sandown Model Symposium that I started to become interested. Nothing more happened until 1978 when I went to the Modelmakers Festival at Brean Sands where Harry Butler was demonstrating it and you could have a go, that I bought a profile Spitfire model, and built and flew it there, that myself and my dad became hooked, bought the gear to set us up and started flying models in our back garden and in halls with the model flying club and at some exhibitions and indoor events local to Hastings at the time.

So for most in Britain, it was Harry Butler (from Clacton as I recall) who managed to develop a range of products suitable for a commercial sale and led to the growth of the hobby. There were kits available and plans (some from Aeromodeller), and information on converting some of the rubber scale models for RTP. From memory it was about 1980 that Harry Butler then sold his rights to Keil Kraft who continued to promote RTP for a number of years. It was a while later that I learnt that Ballards in Tunbridge Wells then had acquired the rights and up until a few years ago you could still get RTP goods from them, but sadly I do not know what the situation is like in the UK now.

So what was RTP? Much like Scalextric you had a power source, a hand throttle to control the DC power. Power was fed out to the Tether Pole which supplied power via ballraces to thin tinned copper wire flying lines which served the double purpose of providing power to, and tethering the model plane. Models could be prop driven, ducted fan, or even autogyros. Models could carry some lighting, or have retractable undercarriage, flaps, or bomb release, and even be aerobatic (loops and wingovers) depending on model type/motor/flying line length. BUt some of the best fun was either flying combat - streamer (and sometimes tail!) cutting or racing (Gee Bee racer models were excellent).

Anyway it would be nice to see if others remember RTP, or fly still, or can add to the history or know what has become of it. Are my children the last generation of RTP pilots?

[Martyn K]

I remember it well although I never took part. There were articles in early 70's aeromodeller magazines that covered it quite well..

It could be brought up to date except using micro RC for control. In fact if EASA have their way, it may be all we can do..

Good winter activity. Doesn't need a big hall

Martyn

[KiwiKid]

I came upon this site a couple of months back when looking for something else - looks quite intriguing. I guess you could fly indoors when the weather was poo. **LINK**

[David P Williams]

Did this with the after-school engineering club at the local primary a few years ago. They had a great time.

[Dave Hopkin]

Did this in the late 60's at a club organised by the LMS on Oxhill Rd Handsworth we flew at Cherry Orchard School, in Birmingham - kielcraft rubber powered kits as I recall with a small electric motor in the front - wires led out to the wing tip - wires back to a couple of ball races on the central pole with a wiper arm on each, control was via a train set controller - all very heath robinson but it worked!!!

[Rob Fairweather 1]

I introduced RTP flying to 2 different ATC Squadrons some 16 years ago.

Great fun, though one squadron was interested in the aerodynamics of it all, the other just wanted to be the crash-combat masters !

[Stuart C]

Indoor RTP Jetex speed events were quite exiting in the 60's. As the speed built up, the pole would start to wobble on its base, and onlookers would move cautiously back towards the doors. The acrid fumes after an evening session were impossible. Health and safety? Ha! Ha!

[Simon Chaddock]

I not only remember RTP in the 60s well but I still have quite a few of my planes - getting on for 50 years on!

My specialism was to use the = &- wires as control lines as well. The center pylon is a bit more complex but it meant flights, especially the landings! could be very gentle. This in turn allowed delicate 'super scale' planes to stand a chance of surviving more than one flight!

The ultimate in this line was my 17" Fokker Triplane

.

'Stick and tissue' with virtually scale construction using only 1/32 (0.8 mm) balsa...

The 12V 'slot car' motor is geared 2.5:1 to turn a scale diameter carved balsa prop. The 9cyl Oberusel rotary goes round with it too!

It weighs 2.25 oz (64g), Now retired but it did fly very well in my parents sitting room on 6 ft (1.8 m) lines.

[Nightflyer]

Posted by KiwiKid on 10/07/2017 14:23:21:

I came upon this site a couple of months back when looking for something else - looks quite intriguing. I guess you could fly indoors when the weather was poo. **LINK**

Thanks for that, funnily enough I found the same site just before I read your post. I have had a look and yes this looks like they have taken over from Ballards and there are also some useful new items, kits and plans, so well worth a look for those into RTP.

[Nightflyer]

With some of the other posts about after school and also ATC activities all were certainly popular clubs or etc that got youths into RTP. It would be good to see it happen nowadays, but as usual there ae many other distractions these days.

[Nightflyer]

The model mags of the 70's and early 80's published a number of interesting designs from profile to scale models, ducted fan, autogyros, and some racing models. I think it was Aeromodeller had a fantastic profile Gee Bee racer that a couple of Elmbridge guys had tuned performance racing them at the Modelmakers Festival in 78 and I think in 79. It would be nice to track some of them down.

[onetenor]

Dad took me to a famous music shop in Liverpool, in London Road, Rushworth and Dreaper t his was when I was 5 so would make it 1948 I liked it but preferred F/F etc.to RTP

[Andy G.]

The club I was in during the late 70's / early 80's did rtp weekly in a local hall. We had a disproportionately large junior membership and they loved the simplicity of it, so did the senior members as well! The models ranged from simple sheet balsa combat wings up to superscale models. All flew beautifully and provided cheap simple fun. At that time the Model engineering show was being held at Wembley conference centre and myself and one of the junior members traveled up from the Isle of Wight by train with box of rtp models and flew them on the stage in the lecture hall there in front of a scarily big audience! Latterly our club dwindled and eventually folded, as a committee member I held onto some of the tangible assets. Many years later I was rewiring the local ATC hall and got talking to the commanding officer and ended up donating all the ftp gear and a pile of models and plans etc to them. A couple of weeks later he contacted me to say how much the cadets had loved the flying and a few were enthusiastically building models. Hopefully some of them went on to become fully fledged modellers.

[Nightflyer]

It does seem that some model clubs, ATC / Army Cadets, after school clubs or Scouts groups liked RTP. It is sad to see not that many get the opportunities for model flying these days. My sons Cub/Scout group when they found out my flying and model flying background all went after their badge. They all enjoyed building chuckie gliders having a go at RTP and going to Duxford.

[Nightflyer]

On the subject of model magazine RTP plans. MAP published a magazine called Model Maker for about a year if I recall correctly about 1979 or 1980. One plan they did was for a RTP Autogyro. I built two of these and they flew beautifully. I just wish I still had the plan to build more.

[Dave Bran]

Got a load of RTP stuff in the shed (No 2!). Now retired head teacher used to do it with 11-14 year olds, profile WW2 combat............

[Dave Bran]

Posted by Nightflyer 2013 on 10/07/2017 21:03:52:

With some of the other posts about after school and also ATC activities all were certainly popular clubs or etc that got youths into RTP. It would be good to see it happen nowadays, but as usual there ae many other distractions these days.

Well, I run an after school engineering club using RC. Mostly RC cars, Mardave V12 one design class. Recently and without warning I took to the workshop that usually does car tuning and repair (with some RC Heli and Quad flying at the end) a few sheets of thin correx. bamboo skewers, tape, Bluetac (ballast), etc.

Got them building chuck gliders, own design, NO plans or help on design until after they had a try. With minimal help (usually only on CG) all managed a flying "object" and over half managed in an hour to make a really decent glider. One made a full 3D fuselage high tail airliner lookalike that went dead straight the full length of the corridor in first test!

And these are kids used to RC, even flying FPV!

They really enjoyed it and the process would adapt to RTP.

[gangster]

I recall at work one day with little to do we created a pole out of a length of conduit with an elaborate swivel affair at the top and a large block of wood at the bottom over the next few days we fashioned a model ,I cannot remember the details, but we fitted a telco co2 motor. Very fast short flights and the pole needed more and more weight to keep it down. The plan had been to try electric via a very expensive variable bench power supply but by the time we had found a suitable motor and out attempt to carve a prop was a disinter we had lost interest. Maybe the weather was suitable for control line again by then

[gangster]

I recall at work one day with little to do we created a pole out of a length of conduit with an elaborate swivel affair at the top and a large block of wood at the bottom over the next few days we fashioned a model ,I cannot remember the details, but we fitted a telco co2 motor. Very fast short flights and the pole needed more and more weight to keep it down. The plan had been to try electric via a very expensive variable bench power supply but by the time we had found a suitable motor and out attempt to carve a prop was a disinter we had lost interest. Maybe the weather was suitable for control line again by then

[Nightflyer]

One everlasting memory I have from flying RTP in my parents back garden when I was in my teens was the number of lost props from motors as a result of mid air contact with other models instead of streamers when flying combat or when doing some racing against other family members. My dad was finding lost props for years afterwards in some of the borders, or shrubs or hedges.

Even my mum got in on the act of building and also designing models. She came up with a delta that flew quite well - certainly looked good covered in transparent solarfilm.

[Pup Cam]

I remember being introduced to it at The Rotax Model Flying Club (subsequently amalgamated with Hemel Hempstead MFC) in the very early 70's.

We mainly used to fly own designs and converted KK and Veron Flying Scale rubber kits. Suitable types had retracting undercarriages operated by home brew actuators operated by reversing the power to the model and running the motor from an on board bridge rectifier.

My mate built an own design and beautiful PittsS2 in Rothmans colours ( THE colour scheme for the Pitts IMHO ) the design of which was IIRC passed on to Harry Butler who subsequently kitted it.

We used to go flying at the Model Engineer Exhibition when it was at the New Horticultural Hall (or was it Cental Hall - I can't rmember) where a flying circle was laid out above the trade stands on the ground floor between the two balconies. The circular "runway" was about 2' wide with netting inside to catch wayward models and stop them "going downstairs".

I can't rmember the name of the bods from MAP who ran it by I have vivid memories of their white polystyrene trays packed with the motor of the day, the Mabuchi FT36D.

Happy days!

Alan

Edited By Pup Cam on 16/07/2017 19:58:15

Edited By Pup Cam on 16/07/2017 20:00:44

Edited By Pup Cam on 16/07/2017 20:01:06

[Nightflyer]

Re: Pup Cam's post. Yes the Pitts was possibly my favourite RTP model I have a kit still to build in the workshop. I enjoyed my first one when in my teens with a geared motor for aerobatics.

Yes the good old FT36D's the life blood of RTP in the 70's and even today.

I loved RTP at Wembley and then for a while later at Earls Court IIRC and also Alexandra Palace for a year or two.

I think RTP was the young modeller's friend as models could be easily built i.e. sheet profile models, or built up, and there was scope to be inventive, which is why school clubs and cadet or cubs or scouts groups found it popular.

I do think from personal experience with my own children's local cubs and scouts that they can still get hooked on aeromodelling with the likes of gliders and RTP models, as they love something that stimulates them and can be competitive and fun too.

[Nightflyer]

Meant also to say that aside from the usual KK and Veron models that Guillows range also lent themselves to RTP conversion. The B25 and B17 were seen to be the epitome of RTP at the time. I really like the B25 that I have. Of course it was only a matter of time before we could get a Lanc which there is good plan available.

A couple of people built flying boats and I did see a Sunderland, and a Catalina a few times at the MEE and Sandown, although the ultimate I think was a Spruce Goose. Only saw it once as it needed long lines and some power too. Oh to have been able to build a B36 or Bristol Brabazon would have been good. Sadly I don't have the luxury of space to fly on 10m lines in my back garden.

[Stumps]

This takes me back... I was in the ATC around 1974/75 and we used to RTP in the drill hall. Now the hall itself wasn't so big that we'd fly the models so that the wing tips weren't that far away from several of the walls. I remember this goodly night when one of the lads was flying his fw190, to give it try just before another (richer) lad was going to hook up a 4 engine job. Anyway the FW is doing its stuff when the CO opened the hall door (which opened into the hall) and off came the right wing ~ crash and burn... Now our CO flew spits during the war, but this was the only (we think) FW he'd ever brought down

[Peter Miller]

. I went to the ME Exhibition for the first time in 1954. It was the Horticultural Hall then.

The RTP was done buy the RAF I think and they had Hunters powered by compressed air with thin hoses down the line. I also seem to remember that they had a system of little flaps on the "airfield" that could be raised and when the aircratf landed the flaps came up and guided them off the runway and back to parking area.

Come on, others must rmember that. it was only 63 years ago!!