Chris's Vicomte 1916

[McG 6969]

Hello again everybody,

The Christmas decorations have been boxed, the reindeers are back home, Rudolf’s hangover is… ‘over’, so I thought this was about the right moment to start the Vicomte 1916 build.

Although Gaston is still having some ski holidays, we can have a go with a bit of history.

At the end of the sixties, the original Baron was designed on the edge of a kitchen table by Christian Chauzit as a trainer for one of his friends. It looked a bit like - very stand off, in fact - a simplified Fokker Eindecker but with oversized tailplanes for easier training purposes.

Christian was working for the French ‘Modèle Magazine’ and his boss, Mr Briot, allowed him to have his plan blue-printed in the mag. But there was no kit available at the time and everyone had to build it from the free plan and hundreds of them were built. Here’s the original published drawing.

The designer himself realized it really looked ugly, so some ‘alterations’ were planned soon enough.

Later Mr Briot locally produced a kit named ‘Baron 1914’. Here is a (bad) picture of the plans included at the time.

He also granted a licence to Belgian Svenson Models from Moerkerke (near Bruges) to have a kit - named the ‘Vicomte 1915’ - manufactured for international distribution.

An annual cup, named ‘Coupe des Barons’ is created, the Barons are still built in even more massive quantities and it becomes one of the most famous trainers in France and… in Belgium as well.

The Baron will have some ‘cousins’, like the Ferber with low wings or the Duke with parasol wing. Here is a Svenson Duke.

Many modellers built it at the original size, also at 200% or larger, sometimes smaller as well, like for indoor flight at 50%… sometimes with ailerons, floats or skis...

(to be continued)

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR History Control

 

Edited By McG 6969 on 07/01/2018 18:25:03

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

Good choice Chris, some simple bits to build confidence and enough tricky stuff to push you, good preparation for the Fury build.

Nice looking model as well.

John....get a move on Control.

[McG 6969]

Thank you, John.

Very kind of you to comment here.

Just as you wrote, some "simple bits" together with some more 'complicated' stuff, for me at least.

I was planning since a while to have a tribute to the Svenson family of kits and certainly to José's courage to bring this kit back to life. But very true that it will push my limits and hopefully give me some appropriate preparation to the Fury Class.

Thanks again & keep up the mojo, it's a good un, me thinks.

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR Progress Control

[Steven S]

I still plan on building one and will be following your progress. I have my plans unrolled and will be marking them up with any hints you pass along as you do your build.

[Levanter]

Nice one Chris!
​Will be watchin' ya.
Levanter

[David Davis]

I will be watching your build with interest. This is a picture of mine, modified to incorporate ailerons, as yet unflown.

I am toying with entering the Coupe Des Barons this year but as the venue is a five hour drive from La Creuse, none of my club colleagues are interested in joining me! I will have to make another wing as ailerons are not permitted in the event. I will also have to fit a pilot, dummy flying wires and a machine gun to be eligible. There are several light-hearted rounds to the competition including a pylon race, a limbo event, knocking over balsa or foam one metre high sticks and chasing a trainer towing a paper streamer and cutting it off with your propeller. The attrition rate is enormous!

[McG 6969]

Thank you for visiting and commenting, gents.

@ Steven > I hope at least there will be 'something' for you to pick up from my build. Please remember it's my first balsa build. When you have a go with the Outerzone Vicomte plan, don't forget that the scan is slightly 'warped' and, for example that the fuse longerons are not really straight. So, may I suggest that you should use a straight ruler to build your fuselage sides instead of just following the drawing to pin your wood.

@ Levanter > great to have you here. Are you going to have a build blog when you start the GTC?

@ David > I will build mine as a 2 axis trainer as per plan first, but as I have a second set of wing ribs the idea is to have one with ailerons as well later.

Aaah... La Coupe des Barons... I would like to sit in that event at least once, but it's a bit early time for now, I'm afraid.

Is it still in that little place (Sainte Marie d'Alloix?) between Chambéry and Grenoble?

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR La Coupe Control

[Martyn K]

Hi Chris

I would build with ailerons from the start. IMHO, aileron control models are easier to fly and are actually more sympathetic to less experienced fliers. R/E models can be a little sluggish. Just reduce the dihedral a little - just to make sure that it is still responsive enough without being overly sensitive.

[McG 6969]

Thank you for jumping in and for your advice, Martyn.

I was planning to start with some lightened wing ribs which are not suitable to integrate ailerons as there is not enough material at the right place. I'm also planning to use the plain ribs for a later build including ailerons -probably building a 'shoulder' mounted wing instead of 'on top' - and with reinforced spars following the later Super Baron design. But I really have to learn to walk before having a run...

Aside that compatibility problem and after reading a lot of reviews, it doesn't appear that the Vicomte is 'lazy' at all with R/E only. Very probably due to XL rudder.

Thanks again & hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR R/E Control

[McG 6969]

Hi again,

(continued)

After Briot ceased his activities, Baron Models took over the die forms and later Svenson sold his licences to a Spanish manufacturer, which has apparently ‘disappeared’ as well.

Obviously, original Svenson Vicomte kits became extremely rare and are quite expensive nowadays.

Early 2016, a small group of Belgian modellers bundled together and recreated a CAD drawing, .dxf files & a laser short-kit following the original Svenson Vicomte 1915 drawing.

As there were 4 of them to ‘participate’ to the project, they initially called their product the ‘Mousquetaire 1916’, the French translation for Musketeer. Unfortunately, the group got split after only the two first prototypes were on their way to be finished, but one of the Musketeers, José, decided to proceed with the kit nevertheless.

José is a carpenter from the Liège area, also running a laser engraving and cutting business. He also decided to ‘redraw’ the Svenson plans as their Outerzone copy isn’t very accurate - read distorted - probably due to an uncalibrated scanner. José drew both fuselage views in ‘shoulder to shoulder’ position and, even better, both half-wings.

He modified the basic kit to make it more complete, including a build up cowl, some sheeting for the wing & fuselage center section, a machine gun and a pre-bent undercarriage. He also took the decision to go back to the kit’s original Belgian name… and the ‘Vicomte 1916’ was born...

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR History #2 Control

[Andy Ellis 1]

I'd agree that they're quite expensive now - I sold my kit early 2015 for over £75. Looks like they're a good flier with a low wing loading.

[David Davis]

Posted by McG 6969 on 08/01/2018 13:09:45:

Aaah... La Coupe des Barons... I would like to sit in that event at least once, but it's a bit early time for now, I'm afraid.

Is it still in that little place (Sainte Marie d'Alloix?) between Chambéry and Grenoble?

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR La Coupe Control

Yes the Coupe Des Barons competition takes place at Ste Marie d'Alloix this year, 294 miles or 473 kilometres away from here.

As for the price of kits. a Belgian firm called Scale Dreams is selling them for 89€. **LINK**

[McG 6969]

Hello gents,

@ Andy > your buyer must be lucky then as in BE the original unbuilt & complete Svenson goes easily over € 200...

@ David > thanks for the link to 'ScaleDreams', but they're a bit 'strange' as they have nearly nothing in stock except for a few kits that the guy designed himself. If you place an order, they get one themselves and ship it over when it arrives.

Anyway it's a French 'Baron Models' kit - die cut and not laser cut - that you can find a bit cheaper in France. IIRC the ribs and spars are different from the Vicomte kit. Maybe I should write "could find" here as they seem to become rare in France as well. If I remember well, I think that it's the same kit that you used for your own Baron... ?

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR Baron Control

[David Davis]

My kit was produced by Baron Modeles and came in a simple cardboard box with a small printed label stuck to the left hand side.

[Martyn K]

That looks like a huge Fin/Rudder. Probably needed due to the dihedral and lack of ailerons.

Martyn

[David Davis]

Well a Junior 60 has even more dihedral but a much smaller fin and rudder!

[Djay]

I built the Svenson version many years ago powered by a OS 40 four stroke I purchased in 1987. It is still flying regularly today and is one of my favourite flyers.

It is 3 channel, on 35mhz radio and flies so slow and stable. In windy conditions it will just hover and even fly backwards. A real vintage style plane and really easy to build.

Darryl

[McG 6969]

Thanks, gents.

The ScaleDreams kit appears to be the same as yours, David.

It's a die cut 'Baron Models' one, but most of the dealers/shops still use the fancy coloured box on their webstores. The more recent kits came - as yours very probably - in a white carton box with a small B/W label on it. Trying to get the costs down, I guess.

I was wondering why a majority of French shops were showing the Baron 1914 "out of stock'. So I did a bit of research and discovered that the producing company went in receivership in November 2017... The recess isn't proper to UK modeling companies, it seems...

Absolutely, Martyn. That fin/rudder really is 'huge', but I guess that makes the bird so distinctive.

Somewhere you reassured and motivated me with your comment, Darryl. So you are still 'bathing' your Vicomte in "camel poo" now ...

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR Poo Control

[McG 6969]

Hi to all again,

I thought there was enough history now, enough words, so let’s have a few pictures of the kit instead.

Normally there are the two sheets of plans - already shown - but as I bought a second set of ribs, José provided me a third one. The drawing shows the wings with ailerons, including both bell crank use - Peter would love it - and dual ailerons choice.

As I didn’t need another large cardboard box, I had the IDEA to take a large yellow/blue Swedish bag to collect the bits. Perfect as José packs all the kit sub-assemblies in individual plastic bags.

The wing center section & wing tips

The wing ribs / please note that as a real carpenter, José doesn’t like to waste some wood

The rudder & tailplanes

The main formers & u/c beam

The cowl, some fixings & the pre-bent u/c wires

… and finally the ply set of lightened ribs.

There’s is also some pre cut 1,5mm balsa sheeting for the centre section and top & bottom of the fuselage. In fact all one has to supply are the ‘longer’ strips like spars and fuselage longerons.

Of course, I have no experience at all with kits or short kits, but I’m quite happy.

Also pleased with the very ‘soft’ engraving of all the bits. I guess José might be a bit like me, slightly ‘autistic’ as well...

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR Kit Control

[Andy G.]

Hi Chris...

Loving the quality of those parts! This looks like being an interesting build. I have to admit the aircraft is not really my 'cup of tea', but luckily I can appreciate a good build when I see one..

[Robert Parker]

Hi Chris,

Just read through your build blog, certainly an interesting project and some excellent cut parts.

Watching with interest.

By the way I would go for ailerons, based on personal experience. I recently built a Etrich Taube by Balsa USA, this was my first three channel model in nearly 20 years, took a bit of getting used to, I ended up coupling the rudder and aileron channels so both work the rudder just to aid the old mind, and a few hairy take offs, now I'm used to her traits and she is great for those calm summer days and gentle flying, if I can remember that far back.

Regards

Robert

[McG 6969]

Thank you both.

I’m really impressed by the kit as well, Andy. Very nice work that JVM delivered indeed. And even if it’s not really your ‘cup of tea’, please just pay a visit once in a while.

It’s certainly not a model as ‘interesting’ as your mega Dornier, Robert.

But then - as a first one for me - I just have to make a prudent start with ‘balsa bashing’, I guess.

Regarding 2 or 3 axis - funny that you RC guys call it 3 or 4 channels - the main idea was to have some kind of revival of the Svenson kit of the seventies. Well, at least, that was the original aim of José and his friends.

Of course there are a lot of 'more recent improvements' to integrate. But, if I build a 4 channel first, I’ll probably never go back to a 3 channel. As I answered to Martyn, “let’s walk first before running”. The standard wing is less complicated to build as a first one but I’ll surely go to an aileron wing as well. Or just maybe I’ll build another Vicomte with the experience of my first one.

Also for me, the main thing is ‘building’ at this time, not flying. Since last late summer I only had a few ‘buddy flights’ with the instructor, so projectively, flying the Vicomte will have to wait, I’m afraid.

On a side note my Volantex Trainstar trainer is still in perfect condition.

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR Axis vs Channel Control

[john stones 1 - Moderator]

No wood being glued yet then ? here's me beavering away on mine n getting hurry ups.

John....where's gluing control.

[Steven S]

Pretty sure Chris showed the building of the vertical tail in his Ballerina build blog.

[McG 6969]

No, John. Sorry but, no wooden bits from the kit glued yet.  

But don’t let that be a valid reason for you stopping “beavering away” with yours.

Yesss... Steven is absolutely right - one extra house point there - regarding the vertical fin and rudder but the bits I used then were from the scrap box, not from the kit.

When I used to have a spray solvent/foam issue with my Bella, I turned away from it by having a try with some balsa lamination as a few Ballerina builders had done as well.  

A 6mm ply core, a few 2mm soaked balsa strips and a start made by using the ‘glue-less’ or 'wait for drying' method.

That choice was given by the fact that I wouldn’t glue the first balsa layer at first but to wait till the ribs were in too. That way, I can create a kind of ‘tenon & mortise’ joint instead of a standard butt joint.  

Following the red lines added to the drawing, I took the choice of using a triangulation for the ribs instead of the original parallel ones.

… and finally, the tail bits waiting to be lifted from the board for a sanding session.

Hakuna matata

Chris

BE - BRU / CTR Lamination Control

Edited By McG 6969 on 13/01/2018 19:41:39