Keith Berriman Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Having followed this thread I can see some flyers like expo some prefer rates. So the original question expo for beginners should be down to the instructors if the trainee can smoothly control a model then go with rates if the trainee is a little twichy then try a little expo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Woodroffe Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 I taught myself to fly(badly) and when I started I didn't even know what it was so everything was set to default 100% rates 0% expo. But that was a very doctile leccy glider. Now my current plane is a different beast so sensitive without expo and reduced rates. It's totally dependent on the plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone_Wolf Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Very interesting and thought provoking thread. I passed my "A" in 2012 and today I still consider myself a beginner. Lately I've been practicing for the "B" as I know I still need to improve aspects of my flying. What better way than to use the achievement scheme and a good club instructor? The funny thing is I’ve found doing a good figure 8 manoeuvre to be quite difficult. Last weekend I decided to play around with my rates and expo settings. Didn’t help much in the end. After reading this thread I think I need to revisit this for all my models. I may be using too much expo. I also think I have too much surface movement meaning my stick movements are very small. Am currently a thumbs only flyer, but am about to try a tray and long sticks as I’m not convinced that for me “thumbs only” is the best way to control a model. One of our best club pilots is a finger and thumb man. By the way I’m practicing for the “B” with a Wots Wot (arft) with a Saito 82B for power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Flying a really good figure 8 that ticks all the boxes is far more difficult than many realise! That's why its in there. It's one of those things that it's quite easy to do "OK", but hard to do really well - especially in a bit of a wind. Keep practicing - we all are in the hope that one day we'll crack it! Re thumbs etc. Well I've seen absolutely stunningly brilliant pilots that use thumbs, and I 've seen absolutely stunningly brilliant pilots that use finger and thumb. So, there is no clear cut "better way". Personally I am a finger and thumb flyer. By all means try with both and find what you are happy with. Just remember to give each a good long trial as it takes time to get used to it and truely evaluate it. I tried a tray about 2 years ago. Interesting. In some ways I felt it was better, but I can't have been that convinced (for me anyway) as I've reverted back to a neckstrap! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Im a thumb and finger man myself. I feel more in control of the model and feel i can be more accurate when i fly. I also find it handy when inverted as i position my finger so that the stick pinches it slightly. This reminds me which way the elevator has to go when i want to pull 'up'. Personally not a fan of a neck strap though, i feel too confined for some reason and find it uncomfortable. Wolf if you change your settings (not sure what you use now) you may find the model more responsive and yet it might also feel more solid and locked in. If you want to try changing the setup i would start by working out roughly how much stick deflection you use in a roll (for example) and then land, measure the actual deflection of the control surface at that stick position and adjust the rates to give you that deflection at nearly full stick. Then wipe out all the expo and start again. You can do the same with elevator in say a loop or sharp pull up. I set up most of my models this way and my warbirds often need the elevator almost back to the stops to recover them from a loop. My La7 especially needs a firm yank as turbulent wash from the idling propeller on the loop downline takes a little of the efficiency off the elevator. I tend to sent ailerons to give me a scale roll rate and i then add 10% to that setting to give me a little more control. I then have a higher rate set for use if its a bit gusty on a cross wind landing and i need a little more power from the ailerons. That sort of thing. Once its all reset fly it for 4 or 5 flights before you decide to add more expo or change something as it may take a little while to get used to the new feel of the model. Im sure the other guys will have their own methods for setting up models but i find that the above works well for me. On the rare occasion i loan a model to someone they often comment on having to really move the controls around but they also comment on how precise the model feels so im pretty sure that means they liked it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone_Wolf Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Thanks Jon I like the sound of that. I'll give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Posted by Lone_Wolf on 04/07/2018 14:23:08: Thanks Jon I like the sound of that. I'll give it a try. nice one, let us know how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 It’s interesting how this thread is slightly moving away from the original question... I started with thumbs because my instructor was a thumb pilot, but at some point in time I switched to thumb and finger, although if I’m relaxed enough I go back to thumbs unconsciously. As for the tray, I’ve been using it for the last 15 years or so, although now I’m flying just with neck strap and the kids have heritaged my tray: their hands are not big enough to hold the radio and grab the sticks at the same time... The thing is that I feel more re comfortable without the tray now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Berriman Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Just a thought on this topic if expo is input in the wrong format it can lead to I don't like it syndrome Some systems use positive to soften the movements other and I can confirm Hitec use negative to soften the controls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 In Futaba, negative soften center movements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 I tend to use a bit of expo. Old habit. When I moved fron Futaba ( pre computer to when the DX9 came in, whenever that was), I continued as I was. With positive expo, i.e., harder round centre. Now, given I have a new TX, strange sticks, as someone above said, I just got to accept it. When I found out, a couple of years later, it was right strange, the machine seemed to wallow round stick centre when I removed the wrong expo sense. But the lesson learned was, apply when needed. And read the instructions, such as they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Posted by AVC on 04/07/2018 16:03:54: In Futaba, negative soften center movements I think they are the only ones that do that. Everyone else uses +ve to soften the centre. I'll tell you a stoy of a recent event that happened to me: A beginner comes to me and asks if I'll fly his new plane and trim it out for him etc. So off we go. Boy where the ailerons sensitive! The elevator isn't much better. I really struggle to land it - keeping the wings even approximately level on approach was a right handful! Anyway, get down, right we need to reduce the throw on these ailerons and maybe dial in a little expo. But the throws look OK - its a WOT4 and they don't seem excessive. So I look at the expo situation,...hey there is already expo in there, -35% of it, in a Spektrum! No wonder it felt a bit lively! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone_Wolf Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Percy, I'm about to transition from a JR XG11 to Royal Evo 16 and the MPX tray exactly like you have. I just added the long sticks last night and I need to change the gimbals back to the way it came out of the box. Only reason for canting them over was originally I was going to use it without the tray. I have not used it yet so am looking forward to the challenge. The first model I'm planning to use it with is a glider (Phoenix 2000). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 04/07/2018 21:46:20: Posted by AVC on 04/07/2018 16:03:54: In Futaba, negative soften center movements I think they are the only ones that do that. Everyone else uses +ve to soften the centre. -35% of it, in a Spektrum! No wonder it felt a bit lively! BEB That happened to me but I did it to myself I started on Spektrum and bought a second hand Astrohog from a local chap who was giving up flying. He gave me one of his Futaba transmitters and Rx as it was already installed so I went and adjusted the expo not knowing it was the opposite to Spektrum. I hated flying this plane for ages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 My first "computerised" radio was a Futaba 9ZAP. It is one of the best I've ever had, but the manual was thicker than "War and peace", and it included some sophisticated concepts like flight modes, programmable mixes, etc. So what I did (and it's something I do since, every time that I get a new radio) was to lay on the floor a receiver with a battery, and the maximum number of servos that I potentially would use: 2 ail, 2 flaps, 1 throttle, 2 elev and 1 rudder. Then I began to read the manual and programmed all possible setups, mixes, modes, expo, d/r,... that I could think of, and see how the servos reacted. This method helped me to understand the different inputs and outputs of the programming. Obviously when I programmed the actual models, I used hardy 20% of all these setups... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Berriman Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I trust SONNY is not put off by his questions (over 1650 replies) and resolved his shall I shan't I ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 AVC, good idea. Not sure what this transmiter is but it's a 35mhz with a Tm-8 module in the back for 2.4. Marked up Pcm1204, strange small PCB thing at the top with CAMPac on the cover near the old antenna. it says it's a computerised airplane system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Hi Trebor. Based on the description, it sounds like a 9C super, or maybe the old 10C. I believe that they were the last models to use CAMPac (now they all use SD cards for models storage and updates). The 9ZAP cannot be because it didn't accept the TM8 module, only the TM7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Does it looks something like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I have one of those. Still on 35meg as well as i have a bunch of pcm rx's and they work fine. I also use an 8j for my 2.4ghz needs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVC Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 It is a good system, Jon. Basically the only difference with the 9Z was that the 9/10C didn't include flight modes other than for gliders. But then again, you can perfectly live without them! I use now the 8FG 2.4, upgrades to 14 channels, and for the kids I have a 6EXA in 35 MHz which I want to convert to 2.4 with the FRSky "diy" module. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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