Stearman65 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 My nostalgia gene has been twitching & looking back at the mid fifties when I had a Keil Kraft Outlaw. I didn't build it but acquired it somehow. It didn't have an engine but I had an old ED Bee 1cc salvaged from a wrecked control liner & converted to a remote fuel tank. One Saturday I took it to our local field, Chadwick Dams, filled the 15cc tank started the engine, didn't bother how much fuel there was & hurled it skywards, more in hope, than expectation. It was a blistering hot day & the Outlaw circled ever higher until it was a spec in the sky. The engine stopped & I expected it to circle gracefully back to earth. It didn't, it must have been caught in a thermal & began to drift towards Stamford Park. So I set off at the trot to try to retrieve it. I reached the park about a mile away with the Outlaw still just in sight. Stalybridge was next & by the time I reached the railway viaduct, I was knackered, with no sign of the Outlaw loosing height, eventually, I gave up hope & returned home thinking it was lost forever. Two weeks later, I got a message from the guy I bought the Outlaw from, It had finally landed on a tent where a couple of campers had pitched at Coombes Rocks, which was at the Buxton side of Glossop, at least 10 miles away from where I launched it. His name & address had been in the plane & the campers had returned it to him, he paid them 5/- for their trouble. So a couple of days later I collected it, paid him the 5 bob, with a few holes in the covering, but still flyable. I was thinking it may be a suitable subject for electric power & have been doing some searching to see if anyone does a kit or plan. The only thing I've come up with at present is a plan of a 50 inch version in the USA. I don't suppose anyone has an original kit or plan they want to pass on (sell) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearman65 Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 Posted by Percy Verance on 24/02/2019 12:15:15: I think the plans are available on Outerzone Stearman. Yes I saw that one but it's a smaller version. 45 inch I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMc Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 It can be downloaded as a pdf file from here. Then either printed as a number of tiled pages or better saved on a memory stick & taken to a copy shop & printed off at full size. PS the 45" span one is the later rc KK model of the same name but bearing no resemblance. Edited By PatMc on 24/02/2019 12:21:12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 That's right Pat, there were two Keil Kraft Outlaws, if you can believe it! This is the later r/c version: **LINK** but I suspect that your's looked like this. It was built by my Uncle Ivor, my father's brother. One day I'll get round to restoring it, id I live that long that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearman65 Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 Posted by PatMc on 24/02/2019 12:19:22: It can be downloaded as a pdf file from here. Then either printed as a number of tiled pages or better saved on a memory stick & taken to a copy shop & printed off at full size. PS the 45" span one is the later rc KK model of the same name but bearing no resemblance. Edited By PatMc on 24/02/2019 12:21:12 Thanks PatMc. Done that. It looks as though that was the kit plan as the details are a bit sparce. Thanks anyway, it's a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearman65 Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 Posted by Percy Verance on 24/02/2019 12:58:25: Could be the camera angle or a trick of the light David, but there looks to be warp in the starboard outer wing panel......which perhaps isn't all that surprising given the age of it! I can't recall the name of this type of wing configuration. Polyhedral is it? Very Graupner Amigo....... Edited By Percy Verance on 24/02/2019 12:59:57 If you blow the picture up it looks like the s/board wing tip has less dihedral than the port & the fuselage is banana shaped unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Davis Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 I'll check it out Perce but that will be after I have repaired my Baron and WOT 4XL, and after I've completed my Flair Harvard and second Baron, then built the Big Guff and that Hawker Hurricane I made such a fuss about acquiring. Between times I'll have to repair my foamy trainer and assemble that ARTF Acrowot which has been sitting around for a couple of years. Then there's that DSM pattern ship to restore... See what I mean about living long enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piers Bowlan Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Yes Percy, by convention that is what is generally referred to a a polyhedral wing; a centre dihedral break with two more mid-span. But infact a polyhedral wing is just defined as having more than one dihedral break so any wing with a flat centre section and turned up wingtips is also polyhedral. Many second world war aircraft are polyhedral for this reason i.e. Bristol Beaufighter, Avro Lancaster, Hawker Hurricane, to name but three. The Outlaw is not sitting square to the camera so perhaps it not quite as bad as first appears, however it does look like it has see better days! I think it should go to the front of the queue David . Edited By Piers Bowlan on 24/02/2019 15:43:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearman65 Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 After checking in detail the PDF suggested by PatMc, I decided to risk £15 on the original plan from the USA. It has 2 supplementary sheets showing the ribs & other items. I've put it in the to do queue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 1957, I would imagine, weekly wage, skilled worker, £15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearman65 Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 Posted by Percy Verance on 24/02/2019 18:30:02: 27 bob for the Outlaw. A veritable bargain....... Those prices look fairly healthy for 1957. I should imagine you could have a night out, and get fish & chips on the way home for the same price......... I started work in 1955 as an apprentice Refrigeration Engineer. take home pay about £1 18s 6p, by 1957 it had risen to around £2 18s 6p & I was running a Mobylette moped, times sure have changed. Edited By Stearman65 on 24/02/2019 20:06:47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff S Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 That was pretty poor money, Stearman. In 1957 I was a trainee radio/TV service technician. My wages were £3.10/- (£3.50) and just covered my lodgings. My dad subsidised me to the tune of £1.10/- per week and I somehow managed to run my 250cc BSA on that so I could go home on a visit every 4 weeks or so As you say times have changed - mostly for the better. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Fry Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Wage inflation was quite large in the 50s, 60s. But as you say, the likes of an Outlaw, and motor was a fair expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearman65 Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 The plan for the KK Outlaw arrived this morning from the USA, 7 days from ordering. It was however folded, despite having asked for it to be rolled. There was however, a note in with the plan saying he could supply them rolled at extra cost, also at any size. The plan itself is reasonable quality paper & the printing legible. But it was obvious it had been re-copied ad infinitum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I wonder why you didn't buy British from Ben Buckle plans? Plan is £6: **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearman65 Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 Hi Alan It is a smaller version on Ben Buckle plans, this is the original at 54inch. It's mentioned earlier in the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 No, Ben Buckle list all of the different sized variants: Outlaw, Pirate and Bandit. I have the plan from them and it's definitely the 50" Outlaw plan on the link I sent you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearman65 Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 Posted by Stearman65 on 01/03/2019 15:34:00: Hi Alan It is a smaller version on Ben Buckle plans, this is the original at 54inch. It's mentioned earlier in the thread. Hi Again Alan, I think I may have mislead you, this is a 50inch version also, I think when I looked on BB site I couldn't find it. Put it down to a senior moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gorham_ Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 No, the span is 50" if you allow for the polyhedral. If you build the wings flat on the board then they will be 54". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearman65 Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 Posted by Alan Gorham_ on 01/03/2019 15:40:41: No, Ben Buckle list all of the different sized variants: Outlaw, Pirate and Bandit. I have the plan from them and it's definitely the 50" Outlaw plan on the link I sent you. Hi again Alan, does your BB plan have the wing & tail ribs? I notice it has the full wing, this one only has 3/4 of the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearman65 Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 I've bitten the bullet & ordered the BB one as well, I'll see which is best when BB's arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stearman65 Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 With the bit between my teeth now, having ordered the BB plan & thinking about it overnight, I checked the BB site for the kit price, which is in my budget. I was however disappointed to find it was a printed kit, not laser cut. I emailed BB & asked them to add a kit to my plan order & left it at that. Then after I'd done my Pilatus blog I had a look at some vintage posts & found another cutter, but he does ribs only. His web site is almost closed but there was a link to his Ebay shop. Yes he does ribs for the Outlaw. So I'll wait until the kit arrives & if I don't fancy cutting out all those ribs I may order a set from him. This Outlaw is becoming a Bandit on costs!!! **LINK** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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