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Mixing rudder in with aileron on a DX6i


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Can someone please advise this 80 year old aeromodeller how to mix in some rudder with aileron to get a smoother turn and stop my aircraft  from dropping its tail when I turn. Tell me in words easy to understand.

 

My radio gear is the black one and is 6 channel.

 

Thank you.

Edited by Handyman
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I don't often get involved with this sort of discussion but this time I will.

 

I 100% agree with Jon, use both sticks fully - if you are inhibited in this (disabled?) then please ignore the whole of this comment.

 

Creating a aileron / rudder mix will NOT cure the issue you are having.

There is something else going on with the tail dropping which you need to resolve.

Neater turns - solution - fly more often and focus more on flying one model until you get it right and feeling right.

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Thanks to the people who took the time to answer my query. My memory is a bit duff sometimes and at 81, some of this modern technology gets the better of me at times.  I have a J3 Cub, which was always skidding out of turns, and I remember being advised to mix a percentage of rudder in with the aileron, which cured the problem and made for a smoother turn each time.

I have taken on board what John of Laser engine fame has advised me, regarding the use of rudder as well as the ailerons, and I also want to thank Andy Gates for his input.

 

Weather permitting this Sunday, I intend to try all of the suggestions, but I may well still end up with the aileron to rudder mix to make my life easier. I hate sloppy turns, but my reactions tend to be a lot slower now than when I flew faster type models. These days, I prefer low and slow and steady flying. Does not raise my blood pressure.

 

Must not forget EarlyBird for his video which helped a lot.

 

Thanks to you all.  Handyman.

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Best of luck with it Handyman. Cubs are often viewed as easy to fly trainers and this is not the case. They can be a handful at times and do require a good bit of rudder manipulation. 

 

TO clarify my earlier post i do not recommend mixing as the rudder you need will only be applied while the ailerons are deflected. There are also many occasions where you may need the ailerons in the opposite direction to the rudder. 

 

If for example you want to turn right you move rudder and aileron together to the right. Once in the turn you hold the right rudder, and maybe even add more to keep the model turning as you want it. This is balanced with the elevator to give the turn you want. In this condition though the model may want to roll into the turn so you need left aileron with your right rudder to keep everything straight. WHen it comes time to roll out of the turn you leave the ailerons left as they are and just bring the rudder to the left to match them. 

 

My WWI Nieuport behaves the exact same way and i fly it exactly as i mention above. Indeed i sometimes deliberately use opposite aileron as the drag of the down aileron acts like a parachute on that tip and it can really help whip the nose round. 

 

This might all sound very complicated with sticks in all different directions but it is a worthwhile skill to learn and you can work up to it slowly. Dont be afraid to experiment and if it all gets out of shape just let go of the controls and then recover once stabilised again. 

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Hi Handyman,

 

Like Andy, I usually steer clear of these discussions as they tend to degenerate into lots of 'Mansplaining', but I thought I'd echo Jon's comments from a particular aircraft I fly.

 

I have a small own-designed spitfire that flies well, but it does exactly what you describe; it drops it's tail in the turns. My first thought was to set a mix, but on further thought, it wouldn't have worked. The reason is that the model was quite neutral in roll, so once in the turn, the ailerons would then be centred and elevator would pull her around. The tail would then drop. So I apply rudder in the direction of the turn AFTER the ailerons are centralised. To complicate matters, I need very little turning left, but a fair bit turning right! That would make setting any mixer a bit complex. Not too sure of the cause, but I enjoy flying the model based on what it's doing. To be honest, isn't this what we all aspire to?!

 

So, after all that, I concur with Andy and Jon, try to correct with your thumbs.

 

Good luck

 

Graham

 

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Thanks again Jon for your input regarding the mixing or non-mixing of aileron to rudder. I have just been doing little drawings on my pad just to let me understand more about the reasons for not mixing aileron and rudder, and in doing so, it brought back to me something that my flying instructor demonstrated to me when doing my PPL, and it was a demo of side-slipping when there was a side wind component to add to the approach to land. That involved raising the into wind aileron, and then applying top rudder to keep the aircraft on the centre line. If I remember correctly, the art here was in getting the aircraft almost to the threshold, and then taking off aileron and kicking the aircraft straight with rudder.    Mind you, that was a good many years ago when I was a member of Shropshire Aero club based at Sleap aerodrome.. Goodness, I feel even older than I do now.  Still life in the old dog yet.  Thanks.

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Thanks to you too Graham. Its funny, but an old dog can learn new tricks. Going to have to experiment at the club on Sunday afternoon, weather permitting. It's my reactions that I am going to have to improve. The trouble is that my gammy left knee lets me down sometimes, usually when I am hand launching. The least said about that the better!!!

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Handyman I wish you well for your practice / experimentation Sunday and I hope it goes well for you.

 

Your cross wind approach made me smile as I was having exactly those issues a weekend or 2 ago.

We have a north / south runway with the pits to the east and we had a 10mph wind coming from the east so I was crabbing in to land with the plane aimed at the pits which seemed weird and wrong.

 

Going back to the rudder / aileron separation discussion, I have a plane in my fleet which will almost not turn using the bank and yank technique. Yet if I give a bit or rudder prior to the application of the ailerons then a beautiful scale type turn is executed. I believe the full size machine was much the same although only one corroding frame exists but similar machines from the period by the same manufacturer are reported to follow the characteristic.

 

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Graham - Its probably engine/motor torque aiding in left turns but opposing in right. I think all of my warbirds behave in a similar way but i use the rudder without thinking about it so barely even notice. I mount all of my engines dead straight though as i simply cant be bothered with right thrust any more. 

 

Handyman - Your full size experience is spot on and is another example of why i recommend learning cross control as we deal with cross winds too. If im honest, it sounds as though you already had the knowledge and experience you needed and all we have done is jog the memory a bit. If you do remember all your full size training then trust it and use it in your model flying as full size practice is generally a better way to go in my experience. 

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Handyman, I agree with all the comments from others here re the cub, but we do have a few members who find manually mixing rudder in difficult so a 2nd best option is a rudder aileron mix. You can put the mix on a switch so you can test how having coupled aileron and rudder will "assist" your cub. But another reason for adverse yaw is the drag from the down going aileron, so another option to lessen the tail dragging maybe to increase the aileron differential, i.e. reduce the amount of down going aileron movement, if you have set up dual ailerons on your transmitter then you can program this on the Dx6i, if you don't have separate aileron channels, i.e. ailerons are on a Y lead, then you'll need to offset the aileron servo arms to get the differential movement, some info here https://www.rc-airplane-world.com/aileron-differential.html

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