toto Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Hi Don ...... your post beat me to it. I managed to get a screw driver into the screw that slackens the axle for the nose wheel. Someone has been a silly billy. When I removed the axle, I discovered why the nose wheel was losing its setting. the " flat " part of the axle that the tightening screw screws against was facing the wrong way so why you tighten the screw ...... it tightens onto the curved element of the axle .... massive schoolboy howler ..... ☹️. Also .... my instructor had mentioned that it looked like the axle was slightly bent backwards ........ another massive howler ..... because once you turn the axle to have the flat looking forward ..... low and behold the axle starts to point forward slightly as it should ....... complete prat ..... but now fixed on both counts ..... work done. cheers toto the prat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Harris Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 15 hours ago, toto said: You are correct from the point of view that I could have maybe picked an easier route in terms of trainer selection though ..... get a foamy , bung in a RX and a battery ...... and away you go ...... or at least in theory. I felt conflicted before I posted. I read the thread title and thought it was about learning to fly, but it is mostly about setting up planes. I feel you have been let down in some ways, though some of it is your choice- choosing planes which are not beginner planes! I'm glad you have taken it in good spirit. I think you have nailed the problem here: 'Weather has played a reasonable part throughout, inconsistency of instructors and availability, the fact I only have weekends to fly as I work full time, and then ...... technical failures ...... ESC's in particular, not being able to get reliability from IC units ( which for the time being ...... I have put on the back burner ) and now .... transmitter issues.' Because you have limited time, and calm weather does not always coincide with the time you have, you need a plane you can just put a battery in and go (I am biased towards Riots because I learnt on one and am on my third!) I was in no way implying you are a slow learner- I was recently talking to other novices, and we realised we actually have very little airtime to learn- probably 3 or 4 five-minute flights in a day at the field (too much time is stressful for learning anyway). And even when we have the skills to fly without a buddy box, our problems don't end- we have more time to practice but when things start go wrong (should I open the throttle and go around or just get it down?) we still have only a few seconds to decide what to do. (That's why I am on my third Riot!) People say about learning to drive a car- you only really learn when you have passed your test and are let loose on the open road alone. I believe that is true, but passing the test in the first place is hard. Those of us who are retired have the gift of time, we can just go out when the weather is clement, people with jobs are more constricted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Harris Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 14 hours ago, leccyflyer said: Agreed. I thought it was rather unkind as well. A number of members here did express concerns early on in Toto's journey that he was spreading himself a little thin by diving in and very rapidly acquiring multiple trainers, rather than concentrating on building his flying hours, but it was clear that he was never going to want to just buy a cheap foamy, a few batteries and do it himself. That simply isn't how he wanted to enter the hobby and, as you say, we are all different in how we approach things. Toto has been very thorough in how he has approached his start in the hobby and has taken it seriously from day one. He's had extraordinary bad luck, in terms of equipment failures along the road, which have been exacerbated by there being so much equipment involved and jumping in at the deep end. I think I mentioned a long way back that launching one's first electric flight participation with a multi-kilowatt, 6s system would be unusual and challenging, but that was the size of model that Toto was keen on flying- but it's his choice. I agree 100%. When I saw the title "First taste of the Sky" I thought it would be mostly about learning to fly, but toto has thrown himself into the deep end with complex IC and electric models. It looks like toto has a model-making and engineering background so is interested in these things. I worried about sounding unkind, but I'm sure toto will get there and disregards my view. Different people enjoy different parts of the hobby. I know people who are passionate about prop sizes, power ratios, RPM, wing-loading, battery bursts and milli-amps etc, etc. I don't have an engineering or electronic background and have little interest or knowledge about such things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 40 minutes ago, Arthur Harris said: I agree 100%. When I saw the title "First taste of the Sky" I thought it would be mostly about learning to fly, but toto has thrown himself into the deep end with complex IC and electric models. It looks like toto has a model-making and engineering background so is interested in these things. I worried about sounding unkind, but I'm sure toto will get there and disregards my view. Different people enjoy different parts of the hobby. I know people who are passionate about prop sizes, power ratios, RPM, wing-loading, battery bursts and milli-amps etc, etc. I don't have an engineering or electronic background and have little interest or knowledge about such things. Well, I'm staggered with that post Arthur. Firstly, the IC engine that Toto started with isn't complex and nor are his other electric models. So how did you form that opinion? Secondly, one of the great aspects of model flying is that you get to learn so many new things. You don't need an engineering or electronic background to want to learn enough about your model and its equipment so that you are able to extract the optimum performance from them and yourself. As I understand it, you are keen to fly a model aeroplane but have no real interest in the topic. Is that right? Toto is showing a lot of interest in trying to understand what is going on. Good for him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 (edited) Hi Arthur, I wouldn't worry to much about sounding unkind. You're not. I would also not assume that I disregard your view because I don't. If either was true, I think that forums would be the wrong place for me to be. I realise that when posting on forums, you have to be prepared to be challenged by other peoples view and they may not always mirror mine. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion ( even strong opinions ) provided it is kept civil and does not turn abusive or get too personal. Your posts do neither of these things. I do appreciate the views of others .... I openly ask for it. I am also quite a strong character who wears his heart on his sleeve, what you see is what you get and I don't normally do things by half ( you may have noticed ). .... so feel free to carry on .... just remember ..... just like you .... I make my own decisions ..... and ultimately do things my way. I try to stress that I whilst I ask for opinions and help, I may not always take everything on board ..... I can't as there are so many opinions and many are conflicting ...... I can't please everyone. .... I would not like folks to think that I ask for their input then completely disregard what I hear. In some cases I might though and that's at my peril. Enjoy your hobby Sir ..... doing it your way and your posts are always welcome. Toto Edited January 22 by toto 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Harris Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 9 hours ago, Peter Jenkins said: Well, I'm staggered with that post Arthur. Firstly, the IC engine that Toto started with isn't complex and nor are his other electric models. So how did you form that opinion? Secondly, one of the great aspects of model flying is that you get to learn so many new things. You don't need an engineering or electronic background to want to learn enough about your model and its equipment so that you are able to extract the optimum performance from them and yourself. As I understand it, you are keen to fly a model aeroplane but have no real interest in the topic. Is that right? Toto is showing a lot of interest in trying to understand what is going on. Good for him. I admire people who want to understand how things work. I don't know the difference between a watt, an amp and volt. I also don't know how a touchscreen works or how a keyboard communicates with a PC via a single USB. Plug and play is a boon to people like me. There are many things I don't understand and have no interest in. Everyone is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Harris Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 On 21/01/2024 at 06:38, GrumpyGnome said: A Riot is most certainly NOT a park flyer....... I think the term 'Park Flyer' refers to EP foamies that are plug and play. The Riot fits that category but is a bit on the large size, certainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 15 minutes ago, Arthur Harris said: I think the term 'Park Flyer' refers to EP foamies that are plug and play. The Riot fits that category but is a bit on the large size, certainly. No, it really doesn't. The term parkflyer, which has been around for at least 20 years refers to small, lightweight, electric powered model aeroplanes suitable for flying in a park. Though many of these are foam, they are not necessarily so. Though many of them are ready to fly (RTF) or plug and play ( PNP), that is most certainly not the case. It's all about the size and weight and the Riot is far from a parkflyer in terms of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) The term Park Flyer means just that - a typically toy sized device to fly in the park (where bye-laws allow it and there is nobody uninvolved around). I think it's a US term but as they have parks as big as our counties, what they call a park flyer differs greatly. One of my club mates has a number of multi engine foam models that are plug and play, and considerably heavier than some of my ic models. To fly one anywhere other than a proper flying site would be madness. So plug and play foamy does not equal park flyer. Although you say you have no knowledge or interest in watts, amps etc. a basic knowledge would be useful even for your Riot .... what if you can't find a replacement prop of the exact size if you break it? What if you meed to replace the motor and there are none in stock? (Leccyfler beat me by seconds.....) Edited January 22 by GrumpyGnome Leccyfler posts quicker than me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 @toto I can't see how your blown esc can possibly have affected your transmitter.... just a coincidence so don't worry about that 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Harris Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 30 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: No, it really doesn't. The term parkflyer, which has been around for at least 20 years refers to small, lightweight, electric powered model aeroplanes suitable for flying in a park. Though many of these are foam, they are not necessarily so. Though many of them are ready to fly (RTF) or plug and play ( PNP), that is most certainly not the case. It's all about the size and weight and the Riot is far from a parkflyer in terms of both. Tower Hobbies sell these park flyers: RC Park Flyer Airplanes | Tower Hobbies some of which are bigger and heavier than the Riot. Edited January 22 by Arthur Harris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 minute ago, Arthur Harris said: Tower Hobbies sell these park flyers:RC Park Flyer Airplanes | Tower Hobbies Those are not park flyers. They include 1.5m span twin electrics like that Beech D-18. Most definitely not park flyers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Jenkins Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) Tower Hobbies is a USA-based retailer. In case you haven't noticed, we have different laws in this country. Still, as you can't be bothered to learn anything it's not surprising that you want to view the world according to your views. The rest of us are well aware that a Riot is not a park flyer. Edited January 22 by Peter Jenkins 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 The AMA definition of a park flyer is that it's a small model suitable for flying in a park, weighing less than 2lbs and not capable of flight faster than 60mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGnome Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) My definition of a park flyer is something that I wouldn't be overly concerned at being hit by. That certainly excludes a Riot. Even one flown by a competent pilot. Edited January 22 by GrumpyGnome 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Bowers Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 31 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: The AMA definition of a park flyer is that it's a small model suitable for flying in a park, weighing less than 2lbs and not capable of flight faster than 60mph. BMFA handbook paragraph 14.2 (a) doesn't use numbers, however alludes Park Fly = Ultralight. < Riot is pretty foreseeable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Harris Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Peter Jenkins said: Tower Hobbies is a USA-based retailer. In case you haven't noticed, we have different laws in this country. Still, as you can't be bothered to learn anything it's not surprising that you want to view the world according to your views. The rest of us are well aware that a Riot is not a park flyer. 52 minutes ago, GrumpyGnome said: My definition of a park flyer is something that I wouldn't be overly concerned at being hit by. That certainly excludes a Riot. Even one flown by a competent pilot. I never said a Riot should be flown in a park. I just used the term park flyers as it is normally understood: usually EP foamies that are simple to operate, and I was referring to club flyers. (Having said that, I think parks in the US are a lot bigger and emptier than in the UK). 1 hour ago, leccyflyer said: Those are not park flyers. They include 1.5m span twin electrics like that Beech D-18. Most definitely not park flyers. You should take it up with Tower Hobbies, not me. They call them parkflyers in huge letters in their advert. This forum is like a court of law: "what exactly do you mean by "walk"? A walk is no less that 2 mph and no more than 4mph. I submit to you sir, you were traveling at 5 mph and getting dangerously close to a stroll!" Edited January 22 by Arthur Harris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leccyflyer Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 21 minutes ago, Arthur Harris said: I never said a Riot should be flown in a park. I just used the term park flyers as it is normally understood: usually EP foamies that are simple to operate, and I was referring to club flyers. (Having said that, I think parks in the US are a lot bigger and emptier than in the UK). You should take it up with Tower Hobbies, not me. They call them parkflyers in huge letters in their advert. This forum is like a court of law: "what exactly do you mean by "walk"? A walk is no less that 2 mph and no more than 4mph. I submit to you sir, you were traveling at 5 mph and getting dangerously close to a stroll!" No,, you didn't use the term parkflyers as it is normally understood. You searched out the Tower Hobbies incorrect listing of a group of models which included several which are most definitely not parkflyers. I own some of those and there is no way that they are parkflyers. That Beech D-18 weight five pounds, far in excess of what the AMA defines as a parkflyer. The appearance of a model in an advertisement is no indication at all as to what that model is in reality - they are just trying to sell as many as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 (edited) Hi Arthur, I get your comment with reference to Tower Hobbies use of " park flyer ". They may use this term but I would say that common sense dictates that these heavier and faster models do not constitute a park flyer. I am going to start a new thread later tonight when I can access my shed and I will post up a couple of pictures of models that I would term a park flyer. It can start off a debate should you wish to participate. Some retailers dont make it easy as I think they stretch the boundaries of what a Park Flyer actually is. I think they do this on purpose as there are folks that dont have proper flying facilities available to them ( or dont want to go to the bother ) but would like to fly a model. Now ..... there are proper park flyers but the retailers are trying to " open up " the choice and therefore start to stretch the boundaries by selling these bigger models and suggesting that these models are capable of being flown safely in your local recreational area. ...... a bit misleading and dangerous. But more appealing and expensive to the buyer. One further thing I would say is ..... as far as the forum being a " court of law " I suggest you have a think about that. It's just what I have been saying earlier ..... folks will have an opinion .... nobody is forcing you to agree with them .... dont take offence just because your comments are being challenged or criticised. It's all part of opinion and debate. Toto Edited January 22 by toto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban8 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 3 hours ago, Arthur Harris said: I admire people who want to understand how things work. I don't know the difference between a watt, an amp and volt. I also don't know how a touchscreen works or how a keyboard communicates with a PC via a single USB. Plug and play is a boon to people like me. There are many things I don't understand and have no interest in. Everyone is different. What a shame. How about giving this a chance ? https://www.n5dux.com/ham/files/pdf/Electronics for Dummies.pdf It's an amusing read if nothing else, and the cartoons are good. Read it cover to cover or dip in and out as you fancy. The Dummies books have been around for donkey's years, in fact I'm sure I still have a couple of them covering stuff that I found useful when I was studying electronics part time at college back in the 80s. Three evenings a week for five years to get my full tech cert - don't know how I did it. Even if you learn how to correctly select the value of series resistor to power an LED nav light for one of your models it'll be worthwhile. Just basic knowledge of a subject if used correctly can prevent you being bamboozled by 'experts'. If your car repairer says "you need a new battery" it's nice to be able to know how to do a few very basic checks with a multimeter and be able to make sense of its readings before paying out on someone's say so. Edited January 22 by Cuban8 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Harris Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 10 minutes ago, leccyflyer said: No,, you didn't use the term parkflyers as it is normally understood. You searched out the Tower Hobbies incorrect listing of a group of models which included several which are most definitely not parkflyers. I own some of those and there is no way that they are parkflyers. That Beech D-18 weight five pounds, far in excess of what the AMA defines as a parkflyer. The appearance of a model in an advertisement is no indication at all as to what that model is in reality - they are just trying to sell as many as possible. I only looked up the term park flyers when someone started quoting statistics. I am sure toto knows what I meant, and other hopefully others as well- I was suggesting toto was making his approach overly complex when a simple parkflyer-type plane would give him more airtime. I was trying to be helpful- toto has a job (which recently took him abroad), which means he relies on having an airworthy plane, decent weather, and an instructor being available all coinciding - which can be rare. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHN MOSLEY 2 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 16 hours ago, toto said: Hi John, It won't let me select Unusable model .... the cursor simply skips over it. toto Have managed to delete the (Unusable model ) Toto ??? if not be careful about importing other models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Harris Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 minute ago, Cuban8 said: What a shame. How about giving this a chance ? https://www.n5dux.com/ham/files/pdf/Electronics for Dummies.pdf It's an amusing read if nothing else, and the cartoons are good. Read it cover to cover or dip in and out as you fancy. The Dummies books have been around for donkey's years, in fact I'm sure I stil have a couple of them covering stuff that I found useful when I was studying electronics part time at college back in the 80s. Three evenings a week for five years to get my full tech cert - don't know how I did it. Even if you learn how to correctly select the value of series resistor to power an LED nav light for one of your models it'll be worthwhile. Just basic knowledge of a subject if used correctly can prevent you being bamboozled by 'experts'. If your car repairer says "you need a new battery" it's nice to be able to know how to do a few very basic checks with a multimeter and be able to make sense of its readings before paying out on someone's say so. Thanks. I agree more of an understanding would be helpful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Hi John, The only other option is to replace the sim card S it will definitely not allow it to be deleted. The cursor will not highlight it at all. Cheers Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 I have started a thread on Park Flyers in which to let the debate rage. See you in the arena. Toto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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