Erfolg Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I have just received my February "Proffessional Engineer", within is an article "F1 gets a boost" I n short it is about the Renault 2009 F1 car and the new F1 regulations. It seems that this car has Lithium _Ion batteries, powered by the cars brakes. The batteries in turn can be used to drive an electric motor, which can deliver 60kw for 6 seconds. This suplements the IC engine, for overtaking. It is possible that the drive for high capacity batteries at low weight, high C rating, in conjunction with a powerful, low weight electric motor, may have some spin of for us? I live in hope, I do not know what you guys think, any thoughts. Erfolg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Hailey Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Hi Erfolg I have sean on you tube that volvo has bean working on a electric car with in weel motors, and this is a very efective way of getting the power to the road, as the motor's also do the braking by returning power back to the battery, when slowing down so lots less parts to wear out, so nearly no servicing will be needed, and the lipo is all packed round the car so there is very little space taken up buy the batterys. Electric is best Owen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Harris Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 It is a good thing that F1 development has benefit for the wider world. I believe they should have fixed fuel limits and then open up the other regulations. In this way the car that makes the best use of the fuel wins. The variety of approaches to the problem will create interest and variation in the cars. Green and fuel efficiency would be properly 'on message' for F1 in these current times. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultymate Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 God forbid that F1 should become an economy run It's already become a political three ring circus as it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Owen One of the very first cars designed (and built) by Porsche, had electric motors built into the wheels (all 4). It worked, but as they say "it was not the way of the future" or "There is now't new under the sun". I feel the same as some, in hoping that this is not yet another example of "political Correctness". I cannot help but have a lot of disquite, that eco warriors, can usefully burn 100's of tons of fuel oil to save whales. Yet my pleasures all destroy the planet. I dialagently sort my rubbish, for recycling. Yet without subsidises, it is not econonomical. Bankers are all stupid, greedy and should apolagise, yet the government has played no role in the debarcal. I just want better motors and batteries at a price I can afford. Erfolg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Foreman Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 The all electric TT race this year might help as well, A123 technology appears to be the battery of choice http://www.ttxgp.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 what about the toyota hybrid car you see out and about--wonder how it perform's in the cold-read an article which said the true mileage of one if your lucky is around about 44mpg!!--the best for mpg is the citroen C3 1.4 diesel which can achieve 60mpg+ no bother--and the other problem is how to get rid of the toyota batt's when they are dead and the cost of replacement's................you can tell it's snowing outside when i'm here posting this on a site dedicated to flying model aircraft-sorry one and all......... ken anderson........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 how big a hole to bury them in---somebody reading this must know the answer? put us out of our misery ken anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Rieden Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I've often thought it could be veery interesting if each driver/car was given a fixed fuel budget FOR THE SEASON. Could make for some interesting races in the second half of the year, and could also allow a car to get some benefit of it went offthe track (or blew an engine) in an earlier race... PDR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 Le Mans, in the past had fuel limits. I just do not rememeber the excitement. You are probably going to see some incremental improvements on "lean burn" or "stoichmetric combustion". We will see if these latest changes improve the specticle of F1 racing, I hope so. I want another Nigel Mansell, you know, the type that pushes all the time, really tries and not a calculating Prost or Schummacher. Outstanding thought they certainly were/are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Tee Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 How green are battery cars, how much fossile fuel is consumed to charge the batteries and make/dispose of the cells. Best green car/motorcycle i've seen to date don't use batteries but instead use a hydrogen fuel cell. No charging just fill up with hydrogen and go, emissions; water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chaddock Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Fuel Cells, great, but how do you get the hydrogen? From water? but it takes exactly the same amount of energy to extract it as you get back when you burn it. The real advantage of fuel cells is not their efficiency but the fact that you can use big, heavy renewable energy sources to provide the energy for a small light power plant, but at high cost in materials & energy to do it. Go too far down this route and you end up thinking like Private Fraser in Dad's Army "Doomed, we all doomed!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Why not cut out the big, heavy renewable energy sources, and go straigh for a nuclear reactor. Perhaps a Fusion type. Now you could use the Sun, but what about the night. Better still one in the Reactor compartment of your very own car! On the politics show on sunday a Green Euro MP was interviewed, air travel for her is ok, as she is saving the planet, the rest of us have to many cloths, consume to many non essentials, TV, toasters etc. I will wait with baited breath to see what the un-green F1 motor season brings, I still hope for better batteries of some type. But Lipos are ok by me. Erfolg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I recently saw a documentary about the manufacture of Solar Panels, the sort that are placed on roofs to generate a certain amount of electricity. The factory was enormous and the temperatures involved in making the silicon slices and melting the glass for the basic structure were extremely high and obviously consumed a lot of energy... so I wonder just how 'green' these panels really are and how long it would take to recoup the global cost of manufacture. (Bearing in mind that one panel will not run any major home appliance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Being Seroius Once upon a time during my academic studies, we were presented with various processes and cycles. One thing became very clear, what ever you do consumes energy, it is extremely difficult to recover energy and the more stages in a process, generally it will be less efficient (unless part of a cycle). Which recently made me change my practice of boiling a kettle if I needed to heat a largish quantity of water. As the power station turdo/generator set is approx 30% efficient, then there are the transmmision losses. Approx. 25 yeras ago, my farther stopped me in my tracks when i told him that the electric kettle was about 85% efficient. I could not care less about that, he growled, how much does it cost per therm of energy? I still do not know because I am lasy i have never bothered to find out. But the government tells me it is better to heat the water with gas, rather than by my kettle, for the environment. With respect to growing silicon crystals, cutting, mounting etc. I was taught that the sequence will never generate more power than was used to fabricate them. Again that was about 25 years ago when Southern Bell Laboratories produced the first commercial solar type panels. There interest was to drive the phone system in remote parts of the USA, where the expence of laying a pwer supply was not attractive. I guess like the rest of you i have seen fads come and go. The doom mongers telling us that we ran out of oil about 20 yeras back. I just know if recycling is effective, you would have the private sector in there making money. As the scrap metal industies etc. The fact that we the tax payers are paying subsidies in varoius forms, ie part of domestic rates, that it is not cost effective. No amount of so called pump priming ( as the goverment likes to call the present sytem) seems to change that. The good thing about fornula one etc., is that it appears to be one of those enterprises that does generate new and better equipment. Totally reliant on the sponcers, the paying spectators. So iam hopeful about better batteries and motors. By the trickle down effects. |Then again perhaps nothing, but it cost me nothing. Erfolg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Tee Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I believe private Fraser was correct, we are all doomed. I think the best type of solar panels are the kind that heat water which you can make from parts bought at your local DIY and plummers, not sure if you can recoup the investment in solar cells over a lifetime. Fuel cells look like the future for transport cause waiting at a service station for 3+ hours while batteries charge is not very practical. Though capacitors maybe an option, one power tool manufacturer is using them, 30mins working time 45secs charge time. Though for larger apps the power needed to charge them in a short time maybe a bit high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 i want the same sort of car that fred flintstone has-appear's to be simple to maintain and run etc................................ ken anderson........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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