Martin Harris - Moderator Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Posted by Peter Miller on 07/01/2010 18:42:51:Martin I am not sure why you seem to say that Ike Mike and Pete were developments of Brown designs. They were designed by Benny Howard and built by Gordon Israel helped by Eddie Fisher. Whoops, you're absolutely correct of course - that'll learn me to rely on my memory and a few visual similarities! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Peter Is your comparison based on straight line speed? or MPH per hp or something else? I have admired the Monocoupe, in all its guises as well DGA -6 Mr Mulligan. Mr Mulligan is quite large, compared with a monocoupe. There have been suggestions that Mr Mulligan had been conceived with the a possible place in the commercial 4 place market. What ever, they are all well conceived aircraft, with very high degrees of optimisation for racing. There was a time when I was a designer, it was second nature to look at what had been done previously. Access what was good about the other designs, the failings and what is now wanted. I would also consider the radical concepts and the tried and tested. Considering the benefits and risks for each option. No, I am not surprised at all that there are some similarities. Why most commercial airliners look very similar in concept, no wing only designs, canards, tandem wings, biplanes etc. Designers are often looking for incremental improvements, as risk benefit has to be heavily waited in favour of benefit. That is my opinion. Erfolg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 My comparison is based on the fact that these aircraft out performed others with similar sizes and power. IT has also been suggested by others that the cusped fuselage was one of the main reasons for this extra performance/ The Monocoupes were side by side cabin aircraft but were so successful in air racing that it was jokingly suggested that the National Air Races be renamed the National Monocoupe races. They even beat some out and out racing aircraft. One even won a six lap race while flying the entire race inverted! Mr Mulligan was big but was definitely inspired by the Monocoupe, Ben Howard said so. It was the ancestor of the DGA 15 which was a commercial aircraft. All Benny Howard's aircraft were built to civilian certified standard for strength etc. This allowed them to fly at airshows and State Fairs etc. References: Thompson Trphy Racers, Moniocoupes and Men. Paul Matt Historical Aviation Albums The Golden Age of Air Racing. To name the main ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Shailer Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hi all, just to let you all know, my Bootlace took to the skys one year ago and as had many flights and still flys today, whoppee, thank you Peter Miller. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 ALways nice to hear of a happy builder. Hope you have many more years flying with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Sorry I'm months late in reading this one, but if anyone is still interested in the subject I bought the Ian Peacock Miss Tangerine kit in about 1979 and built it . Originally I fitted a Fox 40 Schnuerle port and it was lethal. Then I used an OS30, but it was under powered with that. If anyone is interested It's in my garage loft with a Fox 36X still fitted, all intact but it finished up a bit heavy after numerous repairs. I kept saying that I would make up a new foam wing for it and give it another go, although it's flyable as it is. You will see from the Advanced Designs advert that it is actually quite different from the Pete Miller design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Shall eyelet you decide which is better or should we leave it as a tie? Possibly a knotty problem - but do they have a similar wing cord as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Groan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Sorry - I'm getting bored not being able to do anything constructive for a week or two - I may get worse!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hodge Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Ian Peacock designed the "Bootlace" in the 70's and kitted it as "Miss Tangerine" I made mine orange & blue, can't remember if I used a Webra Speed 40 or a Merco 49. Foam wing & turtledeck. Photo to follow, when I locate it in the loft! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 I've got two excellent colour photographs of my "MissTangerine" taken in about 1981. I still have the model stored in the garage loft. I'd like to attach the pictures for your interest, but I confess my computer ignorance in my inability to get them out of the pictures library onto this. If anyone can tell me how to do it I will gladly do so. It doesn't look much like Peter Miller's Bootlace, but it does look a lot like Ian Peacock's version RC1227. In fact I'd say it's the same model with a different name and perhaps Ian only decided to call it "Miss Tangerine" when he produced it as a kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Hi Colin, here's the posting photo's instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Yeap the IP model was a looker, and a good flying model. I built mine from a plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Thanks for the advice about putting photos on here. These show "Miss Tangerine" in my back garden in 1981. My daughter Katy adds perspective in both scale and time, because she is 31 now! i hope these are of interest. Edited By Colin Leighfield on 15/10/2010 22:40:05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Shailer Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 very nice looking plane colin, if thats that old it must have looked stunning next to other planes in 1981 Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leighfield Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Thanks Andy, That's why I've still got it. I'm a bit slow and take a long time to get things done (decades)? In fact after I fitted a new Fox 36X RC I never got around to flying it and the engine is still unrun! Next year I semi-retire (65) and then is when I plan to bring all of these long-laid plans to fruition.(You've got to believe it)! When I get time I'll put some more pictures into an album. I've finally found out how to do it, if I don't forget in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 A little way back, we had a debate on which plane the Ian Peacock Bootlace was based on. My own impression it was a an early "Shoestring". To which i was told that it definitely was not. I have just found an early goodyear racer which fits the bill, pretty much perfectly. It was N31 La Jollita , renamed Skeeter for the 1951-52 season. It has the turtle rear deck. I cannot find an image on the web to download. But then again Ian Peacock may tell us differantly!Edited By Erfolg on 21/12/2010 07:41:20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I have found a picture of La Jollita in one of my books. To be perfectly honest Miss Tangerine could be based on any number of similar aircraft of the era. Miss Nashville, Betty Jo, Mirage (A close contender), Lil Monster, And that lot is just looking at one of my Kinert books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 yep, the turtle deck is about right. It is the canopy that needs a little modding, to something smaller and shorter. lil monster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 The picture of Lil Monster that I have was taken at the 1951 National Air Races and the canopy is much closer to the Tangerine one. I suspect that Ian probably used an available commercial canopy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Shailer Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 just a few pictures of Bootlace in the air, still looking good over two years on Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erfolg Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Looks really good Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Nice pictures. Glad she is still flying and you are having fun with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Shailer Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Hi Peter, Thank you, yep still love her, and she looks so good in the air Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Hardwick Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hello Peter, I see that the last post on this is almost a year ago, so hope you manage to see this. Back in 2003/2004, having renewed my interest in the hobby after a very long break (marriage, kids etc) I spotted your plan for Bootlace in Jan 2004 edition of RCME and immediately fell in love with it. Having never built a model direct from plan before I thought that, before attepting it, I'd better renew my kit-building skills first (built a lot of planes from kits in my younger years) and also learn to fly again. So, during the years between 2004 (hell, is it really that long ago) and the present day, I've successfully built two Tony Nijhuis Sky-40s from kits of parts. These fly a treat - courtesy of my son who shares my enthusiasm in the hobby but more for the flying than for the building. In parallel, I have bought a couple of ARTF electric foamies (Apprentice and Radian) using which I am teaching myself to fly again (slow process)! So, the time has finally come to make a start on Bootlace - the model that kick-started all this off again. I have one question before I start - is the plan from the 2004 magazine accurate? Reason for asking is that I have a vague memory from reading somewhere that it may not be. But then that could just be my memory failing! Thanks in advance for your answer, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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