TonyS Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Right. Fuselage complete. Be prepared to become close mates with your sanding block!! Sheeting the fuselage is a painstaking job! Finished at last though. The battery bay works well - just don't know how I'm going to fasten the hatch in so that I can get it on and off easily. The problem is that I don't want to spoil the smooth appearance of the fuse. I have seen a Yak 23 model with twin guns mounted just where the battery bay hatch is. I guess I could disguise the handle as a pair of guns! I've started the wings but ground to a halt pending a little advice from Ton. The instructions say cut the sheet from 1.5mm balsa planks per the plan. Then place the ribs and central stringer, glue and so on. The photos show that the trailing edge has been glued before the ribs are glued. Easy I thought - just fit the TE - problem is the parts list says the TE is 16mm balsa strip of 2mm thickness. This is what's supplied. The plan however shows a TE of 22mm ? As this affects both the wing area and the aileron size I'd like to know what the right measurement is before continuing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ton van Munsteren Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Hi Tony, The best thing is to align the main spar on the sheet at first and than check how width the ttrailing edge strip needs to be. Please keep in mind that there is at least 2mm sheet standing for the 2mm false leading edge that needs to be gleud infront of the ribs on the sheet. The trailing edge should go from the end of the ribs to the end of the planking, when its smaller no problem you need to send the trailing edge sharp so most of the strip will be sanded of. Looking at the pics it looks like the strip was 16mm width and that it was not as width as running from the rib to the edge. Ton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ton van Munsteren Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Forgot to mention, please don't do the guns thing its not my kind of thing. A 1mm pin will not show and works just fine. Ton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 Thanks Ton, Not keen on the guns myself - just thinking out loud... I think I can progress with the 16mm strip - as you say it gets sanded down anyway. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 One or two little niggles have arisen since the last posting. Firstly, the contents and instructions refer to a 400mm strip of 6x5 balsa to be used for the aileron leading edge. The plan shows each wings aileron LE is 210mm long so basically the part isn't long enough. This is annoying as, if I have to glue some extra on it will make it harder to cut out straight. I also found that the strip provided for the wing TE wasn't long enough either by about 15mm. Anyway - onto bigger problems - this time due to my inexperience. The plan says I need to make up a wing wash-out helpformer which I guess lay under the wing when sheeting up the top to ensure I build in some wash-out. The plan shows : Surely if it gets thinner at the tip then I'm building in wash-in? Anyone any ideas......? T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 Ok. Not too much progress over the past few days whilst I received some much needed instruction on washout and how the tapered wing affected the way it's built in. There's a thread on this entitled "Washout" spookily enough so I won't repeat. I have to say I did find the wings a challenge. I will post some pics below however the issues that I found a problem....... Firstly, building the base of the wings was a doddle. Make up the skin from 1.5mm sheet per the plan. Mark out and glue in the formers and Robert's you mother's brother as they say. Unfortunately then you fit the servo. This is mounted inside the wing (therefore inaccessible when sheeted). The servo arm sticks out of the underside through a slit in the wing sheeting. However, you need to sheet the top AFTER pinning the wing flat onto a board....with a servo arm sticking out?..... Easy. Take the arm off. Errrr, but then, when its pinned and sheeted - how do you screw the arm back on..... After much pondering I thought, stuff it, and I removed the arm and will slip it back on via the slit in the wing with a tiny dab of epoxy in the socket and hope it sticks. Plan B is cut a hole in the wing sheet and fix it properly. I could have cut a hole in the board to let the servo arm drop in whilst I was pinning and gluing it but impatience was getting to me. Secondly, the plan says to glue the 'prefabricated top sheet' onto the pinned wing (which is sitting on the washout helpformer). So, I made up the sheet to the plan but sadly didn't allow for the extra length required as a result of the skin going over the top of the ribs so one wing sheet is a little short and I'll need to cobble something together to fix this. Frankly, I don't think I'm very good with wings..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 OK. Where did we get to today.... I've fitted and shaped the wingtips and leading edge - I really am becoming best mates with my sanding block . I then cut out the bottom of the wing to allow for the fan and outlet tube, fitted the fan mounts and slowly but surely the light at the end of the tunnel is beginning to shine..... Things to be thinking about. As I said above, make the skins for the wings oversize so they can be cut / sanded back (actually this pretty much goes for the whole model. On the whole the fit is excellent - one exception seems to be the fan mounting bars. Everything fits together beautifully but, well the picture shows it well - the slots just don't line up. Odd, but I've tried just about everything. This means that either I mod the mount or, I build the fan and motor mount in from the start - i.e. I won;t be able to build the wing / motor section and then slot the fan in. Not sure which way to go yet. Normally I wouldn't worry but I fitted the Wild Beast motor to the fan unit and frankly I'm not happy that I won't need to pull it out and mess around with it later. For some reason I can't figure, when I put the nut on the motor shaft and tighten it, the fan jams solid. I have therefore put it on as tight as I can then used threadlock on the nut. Given the power of the motor though this might all fall apart in dramatic fashion at full throttle so access later might be useful ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Looking good, make sure that edf is running sweet before burying it under the fuz! if you can make a access hatch now is the time! That motor is a beast! When guys going to make these kits or even ARTF in 90-120mm edf, models of this scale deserve preance! You doing a good job, watching with intertest, the edf scene seemed to quiet up, good to see guys are comming back with built up kits and not foamies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 Dusty, As soon as I can find the right ESC (at the right price) I'll be bench running this rig. May need to screw the bench down first though! I agree - there's a market for decent size EDF's - well, there's two of us at least....... Until then mon brave I fear it'll be up to us to build them. Can't wait to see this one in the air... PS If you're tempted by the motor, Hoffman make the fan and motor as an integrated unit which I'd recommend to stop you having to mess around with trying to mate the two together properly. That was a real faff as the motor mount holes in the fan were slots not holes - this meant that it was a real pain to get the motor fitted dead centre so that the fan didn't rub on the inside of the casing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Update. I've now fitted the elevator servo which mounts inside the fuse above the wings. Managed to glue it in well before I was ready and consequently it was in the wrong place and had the wrong servo arm on! The LH and RH elevators are separate hence the need for two cables. To connect I welded the wires by stripping some multicore cable down and using the fine wires to bind the two servo wires. I then soldered the bound section using my trusted pliers with a rubber-band technique! Seems to have done a great job. Care was needed to make the cables run smoothly as the snakes, which were built into the fuse quite early are parallel when they enter the fuse. This meant I had to put a bend in one servo wire to get rid of the 'V' created by soldering them together. I mounted the servo in Depron and glued a thin sheet of 1.5mm balsa over the top to hold it in. I've also fitted the outlet tube - this is a pain in the proverbial. You cut a section out of some supplied transparent plastic, roll it up and place it inside the formers. You then have to mess around cutting a slot for the motor wires and then cutting two further slots for the fan mounting flanges (assuming like me you want the tube to overlap the fan housing. Getting all the slots just right is quite a faff. I've taped the outlet tube which will be buried inside more sheeting once the model is complete. On a different note, I added up the spend on this model to date. Very scary. Model + fan + shipping £160 Motor £90 Battery £100 ESC £85 Receiver £52 Glass cloth and Skincrylic £30 Paints, sandpaper, glue, Model Lite c. £25. I really hope I get more than one disastrous flight out of it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Isnt it coming along well TonyS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Hi Stephen, Thanks. It's certainly looking the biz. Hope my finishing and, more importantly my flying, do it justice! It is getting a touch lardy though and I can't for the life of me work out why. It's built exactly according to plan, the battery is slightly less heavy that the designer uses and it's coming in at 1090g before the ESC and covering. Max all up weight quoted on the plan is 1200g - not much to play with . Well the motor should have no problem hauling it skywards (provided it lives up to the 4lb thrust promise...) but the flying speeds might be a touch on the high side . Just to show the start of the finishing (using Model Lite)....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Tony I know the Hoffmans are good, but also require beefy Lipos etc so end up being a dere project, in your case worth it! I have had success with the cyclone 64mm fan and lander 70mm. The Hoffmans are tempting but I must wait for the right model to be produced (I dont have time to build so am ARTF guy) then I would consider a "VERY HOT" setup. Great job, looking forward to your finnish and flight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Quick update. Battery arrived for the motor - A 3,700mAh 4S. I only had 4mm gold connectors which were way too small for the chunky wires so I ordered some 6mm from Robotbirds. The pack arrived today with 1 pair in it!! My fault entirely so a quick call and the other pair are in the post. Good service from Robotbirds by the way.... Anyway, I can't test the motor and the ESC's not arrived and therefore I can't finish the sheeting so I've filled the rest of the airframe and nearly sanded it all back. I've never glassed a plane so I don't know how well it covers hairline cracks etc etc so I've probably gone a bit OTT. The Skincrylic arrived yesterday with the lightweight glasscloth so I should be able to do a bit of covering tonight. I didn't want to start on the fuse but I need to (because the sheeting I can't finish is part of the wings). If there are any hints / tips anyone can give me I'd be really grateful. Don't be shy.... I know nothing so anything would be a major step forward. In the event of an info vacuum I'll cut and paint and hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David E Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Great looking build so far As I'm on my 2nd ever balsa build, it's interesting seeing the challenges other people are facing. I'm afraid I know nothing about glassing, but I did wonder about the weight thing - I've read elsewhere that CA glue leads to a heavier plane, but I don't know how true this is in reality. I guess it's a bit late for this (only just seen the thread), but on the problem with the slots for the fan, going purely from the end-on picture, from a totally uninformed point of view, it looks as though the left hand bar is simply upside down. However, I realise that you may have to put one upside down to get the fan centred right if there is a problem with the kit design, or that there may be other features of the part that I can't see that show that it isn't upside down at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 David, Thanks for the post. I'm afraid the concern over the glassing stage has made me forget to keep the thread up to date. The slots do match up now - rather strange but I flipped the motor over and it seemed to fit which makes no sense at all as the flanges are centered on the circumference and it shouldn't have made any difference. One of those odd things I guess.... I think I've said that the kit has been very good and accurately cut. Most errors have been down to me. The weight is going to be a problem though once I've finished the glassing if the 1200g per the plan is critical. The only option I'll have is to swap out the motor for something a tad less power-hungry and pop in a smaller battery. This one os 490g ! if it does fly it'll possibly need to be bungee launched. This is very puzzling as there's nothing different from the original design / parts other than say, choice of glue and even then the plan calls for CA. I think that the flying weights quoted of btw 900g and 1200g are optimistic to say the least. The nightmare I'm currently living through is glassing the model with absolutely no prior experience and, for the first time ever, no assistance form other forum members (maybe nobody glasses their models?). I'm overlapping the sections on the fuse and just hoping that I can sand the overlaps flat after it's finished. The Skin-crylic I'm using is easy to apply but I don't think will harden quite like a two-part resin would. I guess I'll soon know. I believe it's exactly the same product as Poly-C. On the plus side it doesn't stink the house out. On a different matter I e.mailed Hoffman Magnetics about a problem I was having with the fan/motor fit and they replied promptly by e.mail with the solution so a big thumbs up to them for service !! By the way, what are you building? Is there a build blog running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David E Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Cool, glad you got the problem sorted. I just read somewhere else that CA can be the lightest glue, so perhaps it just depends which thickness and how much you use? I'm building an Orion-E glider from West Wings. I've posted some photos on a thread here: http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=32842 but I should start a proper build blog really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Right, Back again. Glassing begun. I've decided to cover the fuse but not the tail. This is because in all my flying experience the tail is usually the last bit to get broken - usually everything in front of it is a total write off though . As I don't need it for strength and I desperately don't need any extra weight I'll just give it a few coats of the Skin-crylic and sand it nice and smooth. Finishing with a hi-build primer should sort out the finish. The fuse was done in several pieces to contend with the curves. I have a bit of a problem with the battery hatch cover which wont fit now as I've lapped the glass cloth around the edges of the battery bay to get a nice edge. A bit more sanding ....sigh. I have no idea how to trim the cloth along the TE of the wings. (The LE is easy as it's an overlap). I'll just cut it on the edge and hope it all sands cleanly. Pics for those interested.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klippy Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Coming nicely there TonyS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 Well chaps, I have to tell you all I'm gutted. The disaster I expected to happen has happened. Having had no experience of glassing, well, you have to just dive in somewhere and, this morning I inspected last nights work only to find.... The above doesn't really do justice to the horror. Don't have a clue what to do next. Can I get the cloth off and start again - don't fancy giving the wings too much grief - it's only 1.5mm balsa sheet. May go buy an RTF - anyone want a half (badly) built Yak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David E Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Bummer Don't know *anything* about glassing myself, but perhaps the sanding block will be seeing some more action, followed by filler?? I would get some advice from someone who knows something about it first before doing anything at all, though. If you can't get any help from this forum, I can recommend another where I'm sure you could, but I'll give people here a chance first. Maybe try posting a thread in another one of the forums here as maybe not everyone will be reading all the build blogs. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyS Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 David, Please don't be shy about suggestions for other forums. Apart from Ernie I've had nothing at all back on glassing here - I don't think that there are any regular contributors who glass their models. Either that or they're all as good as I am . I'm expecting not to have much time for building after this weekend so whatever I need to do I have to do today / tomorrow and, Tempus Fugit as they say in Wigan... T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 How about pricking with a pin or does the glass cloth go hard,then you can or not press the air out.Doesnt look to good at the moment does it.Bit worrying.Andy Watson has been glassing hid Stuka he may be of help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Member Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 [This posting has been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klippy Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 How about taking a razor plane with a new blade and shaving the excess off. Then fill the resulting hole with Spackle as suggested by Polly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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