More on the Camel onboard sound system

[Bruce Richards]

Timbo I think you are a much more experience pilot than I am and the fear factor left you a long time ago. It is still quite fresh for me.

[Pete B]

From the video, there's plenty of airspeed even allowing for downwind leg, so definitely no question of a stall. Doesn't even begin to look like a candidate for 'finger trouble' either.....

 

At 1.22 does anyone else notice a bit of a rightwing down twitch immediately before the final roll to the right starts? Looks very 'aileron-y' to me

 

I rather suspect the elevator has parted company post-crash as a result of the impact travelling through the servo-tray, along the pushrod and then out to the elevators. Any sign of deformation of the clevis pin, Timbo?

 

None of this is particularly conclusive, I appreciate. I have to say it does look a bit like an uncommanded control input. When my P-38 went in a second time, I really didn't think I had been flying it that badly and have suspected that it may have been a consequence of the unusually long Battery to ESC leads or a glitch in the UBEC (reported elsewhere). I've still got every faith in Spekky gear so it could be worth having a very close look at the component reliability of the rest of the electrics.

 

just my tuppence worth.........

 

Pete 

[Lew Weaver]

Timbo

 

Sorry to read of the Camel crash it was flying really well.

 

The scenario is very similar to the crashes my son and I had in 2008 to which you contributed in the "Gutted" thread.

 http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=13639&p=1

 

We never found the causes and I have since converted to the Jeti Duplex system which should give me a warning before the model goes in

 

 

[Dusty]

Tim, sorry for the loss, it happened all very fast, elevavtor flutter, servo or radio as the conspirisory goes.. not a great day for a maiden though, would have got the parkjet out imo..

 

I hope you can resolve the mystery to why it went in! The sound module worked great, the start up is fantastic.

 

 keep on the horse you have lost 2 good models, happier and faster models in 2010!

[Tim Mackey]

Thanks both.... no worries, its just been a bad year, so 2010 can only be better eh

I have almost settled on a Corsair as a replacement for the Camel and have even had a genuine Corsair engine recording loaded into the chip in prep

Meanwhile, the replacement for the flyfly hawk is waiting its turn on the bench - still in her box, but getting further up the queue....should have both done by summer I hope.

Im not sure we will ever know for sure what caused the camel crash, and I reckon its best to just move on and forward to the new year, and new models.

[Dusty]

Tim I agree, you have worked hard on all your models and been slightly rewarded... Get the hawk going; you need to feel the love for a jet again!!

 

Could you not do a FW-190 or Me-109, NATO planes are SO common? Just my 2 penny, Tim regardless of insigna on the bird something with a different shape... what about a modern day reno racer sea fury with sound? rear bear engine runs

[Dusty]

I contradicted myself mentioning the Fury...

[Tim Mackey]

  Hi Dusty, well I could indeed, as almost any engine sound is available for the module, and easily loaded in to the system, along with the correct matching armourment, and I did say almost settled on the corsair. One aspect to be careful of with this sort of project is weight ....and its distribution. The speaker(s) add a fair bit of ballast, and for optimal sound need properly housing and baffling etc. One advantage of the big radials is the nice large cowl which on the Camel I utilized to house the ring of A123 cells, helping to spread the overall extra weight of the system around the right areas.

I do like the look of the Corsair also.... I reckon its a mean and sexy looking beasty

I am certainlky open to all and any suggestion  - especially if accompanied by a picture or two for inspiration..... but it does need to be a fairly big beast for the reasons above, and to further complicate things, my car is limited for space, with no folding rear seats or hatchback. I struggle with a 70" span model, and the wings just fit inside the car, as long as the wife keeps her head down or stays at home

I dont want another bipe - not had much luck with bipes TBH

[Klippy]

Bad luck Tim, commiserations, I too have watched the Video many times, forced to say it looks like total loss of control to me.

[Tim Mackey]

I know, it does doesnt it ? However as I say, unlike many people in this risky hobby of ours, I am not one to immediately blame a radio problem - especially on my 2.4Ghz stuff, never having suffered any other issues since converting 3 years ago. I suppose I should at least do a full range check of the radio now, but of course, if it does show a problem, then I would wonder whether it was the crash that caused it of course

[Model Solutions]

Hi, folks, I'm David Harrison, CEO of Model Solutions of Canada Ltd. and designer fo the SFX6 sound module. Congrats to Tim for making the video of the SFXPC3 GUI. Well done!!

 

I'd like to reinforce, though, that the module is completely plug and play right out of the package. All you have to do is set up the max. and min. throttle settings using a simple push button procedure. You do not have to use a PC at all to setup and use it if you don't want to. But if you are so inclined to add your own sounds or modify any of the many configurable settings, then you install the SFXPC3 application that comes on a mini
CD-ROM with the module.

 

Thought you also might all like to know that we are having a January Sale on for the SFX6 sound modules and loudspeakers. The SFX6 Sound Module is going for 20% off at CAD$159.95 (about £96).

 

If you want to get one of these amazing high performance sound systems, order now!!

[DAVID CLIFFORD]

Shameless plug David, shameless.

 

Got any free ones we can review?

 

David

[Lew Weaver]

I have just installed the Model Solutions module and am looking for advice on the best way to mount the 2x4ohm loudspeakers.

 

At the moment I have them fitted in the front cockpit (of a Bucker Student) and  was wondering if they should have some sort of cover over the back of them to maximise the sound volume?

[Tim Mackey]

I did mention in the full review that normally, loudspeakers should have a baffle - and preferably it be formed into what becomes an infinite baffle by enclosing in a "box".  A lot depends of course on location limitations etc. There is some useful info on this matter on the modelsloutions website. HTH

How about some pictures of the project Lew

[Phil 9]

It is always a sad day when your model goes in. particularly such a nice one. There is always the post crash inquiry about what happened. Was it pilot error or something failed one the model. Maybe one-day models might have a black box that will give us some clues (just an idea).

 

[Lew Weaver]

OK - here is the model that the sound module is fitted in - it has a fairly low wing loading so should be able to take the extra weight.

 

 

And here are the loudspeakers temporarily fitted facing out from either side of the front cockpit.

[Model Solutions]

Posted by Phil B on 11/01/2010 13:29:16:

It is always a sad day when your model goes in. particularly such a nice one. There is always the post crash inquiry about what happened. Was it pilot error or something failed one the model. Maybe one-day models might have a black box that will give us some clues (just an idea).

 

Phil, there are already flight data loggers available from companies such as Eagle Tree Systems (no connection to me) that can record battery voltage, current, temperature, airspeed, altitude, motor speed and, with an optional GPS receiver, location throughout the flight. While not the complete equivalent of a "black box" they are pretty close.

 

Regards,
David

[Tim Mackey]

Hi Lew.... I think you may need to not only enclose them, but also perhaps isolate them from one another as the sound prssure waves from one may well cancel out the other,

You should be able to do it easily enough, but will have to sacrifice the cockpit interiors realism. Maybe David above, will have a different view.

[Phil 9]

I know about the data loggers. I was thinking more in fantacey land where you can find the answer to all thoes questions. But no one flys a model expecting to crash and when it happerns it can be a big let down. But I guess it does add to the hobby. An Rc car for example you dont get the same feeling from.

[Tim Mackey]

Posted by Phil B on 11/01/2010 13:29:16:

It is always a sad day when your model goes in. particularly such a nice one. There is always the post crash inquiry about what happened. Was it pilot error or something failed one the model. Maybe one-day models might have a black box that will give us some clues (just an idea).

 

 I do have an eagle tree inflight logger, although it was not fitted on that particular model. Post crash testing revealed nothing untoward with regards to battery levels, or UBECs etc, and we dont ( and probably never will ) know for sure what happened. Those who witnessed it, and also those who have seen the video of the last circuit say it did not stall, as the flying speed was still plenty high enough...so I dont think it was pilot error either.

The two favourite theories so far are...

1) Radio failure of some form

2) Elevator failure.

I cant say I favour either, as I use the same Tx for almost all my models, and it gets a LOT of use in different places etc, all without any other incident whatsoever. The Rx was anew AR7000 unit and a agin, I have never had any concerns about these in my other models.

As for elevator failire, well yes they were both out and hanging on the control rods only at the scene, but the model didnt exhibit that sort of behaviour before rolling over and going in, and of course impact damage could have broken the hinges out.

[Model Solutions]

Lew, you should try to mount the speakers in a completely enclosed box, for better volume and better sound quality and, of course, make sure there is plenty of holes in FRONT of the loudspeakers to let the sound out. Ideally, the loudspeakers should be mounted in a place where the entire loudspekaser cone is exposed to the outside.

 

Often what works well is mounting one speaker facing down in each wing and cover it with a light weave fabric to let the sound out.

 

Multiple speakers in the same enclosure are alright. They won't cancel each other out as long as they are wired in series (so they act together) and not in anti-phase). See this article on my web site about how to wire multiple speakers. See here

 

- David

Edited By Model Solutions on 11/01/2010 14:34:49

Edited By Model Solutions on 11/01/2010 14:37:41

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 10/03/2011 15:10:35

[Tim Mackey]

Had to delete the original post earlier oin the thread as U tube is playing silly for me - so this video is somewhat out of sequence with eralier posts....but you get the idea.

 

I went for many years with no incidents at all, and then two rather special projects both get totalled inside 6 months. In both cases I think I did all I could do on "all facets of building and prep etc".

This maiden flight session was done mainly for the stills photographer to capture some flying shots, as printed in the magazine article. On the final leg of the circuit, I am just starting to input a left turn to come on to base leg, and although its not too clear on the film, she rolls over to the right and goes in. As I said earlier in the thread, I did exactly the same maneuver at the same sort of speed many times during this flight, without a problem.

I do recall feeling I had no control over any aspect of the model as she rolled over.

Ah well, as I say, one has to be philosophical in this game

Here is the video - I haven't done any editing - its just one of a collection of "outtakes" from the original that my wife did on a cheapy stills camera with simple video facility, so the quality is not good.

[Matt Halton]

Looks to me like an aileron lockout there Tim, but also appreciate I could be way off mark. Only just read about this Camel whilst perusing the forum, so sad when things like this happen to a new and much prized model..

I have in the past flown real old banger models over and over for seemingly forever.

Weird how the models you don't much care for live forever and the ones you love don't..

 

Comiserrations mate, I remember the FlyFly Hawk incident very well too...let's hope your luck improves for this season.

 

Cheers

 

Matt (about to use DX-7 for the first time)

 

Edited By Matt Halton on 10/03/2011 17:14:06

[Tim Mackey]

I was using my DX7 on both the Camel...and the Hawk

Nah...seriously, I have complete faith in my DX7 - we will never know what caused the Camel to get the hump so soon as the crash was severe - and the post mortem revealed almost all control surfaces broken /loose/missing etc.

It used a full range twin AR7000 rx, and there's no real reason to suspect that either.

I reckon I was shot down by a Fokker !

The Hawk of course was elevator failure - a fault now rectified on the JEPE version via a decent single servo and AMT pivot arrangement.