Nightflyer

I agree in part with you Percy on the quality of the Skyleader gear. The original Clubman set gave pretty good service for me even with it being second hand. At the time I started flying the Clubman Super (27 AM) was very popular and when the 27FM set was released we had a set fairly early on and it did have to go back twice (first time was a recall as they had identified a problem with the stick potentiometers (and showed how good they were communicating to owners via model shops and I think model press). That said though I think Futaba were starting to take a lead in quality come late 70's and start of the 80's. I think with 35 FM the Courier did look more appealing and did perform well. I certainly miss Skyleader as a manufacturer as I do think thy did much to develop rc flying in the UK and also with the Skyleader team were very entertaining in their day. I certainly like seeing the retro 2.4GHz transmitters.

Looks great hope you have many enjoyable flights. From memory with a Cirrus they do float well when looking to land they do seem to glide forever.

Love it Brian and yes don't give up. I have found that the occassional clean and tidy of my workshop often yields marvellous goodies such as: Nuts and bolts that sometimes are sufficient for engine mounting or control horn fitting. Servo screws including the lesser spotted servo head screw. Modelling pins - I wondered why I was struggling to find sufficient - went and bought some and then found more around the workshop. A few useful offcuts of balsa or ply. The occassional anti-social plan that has re-filed itself away from other plans. I could have spent money (and possibly have in the past) replacing these parts that amazingly have disappeared often when I have needed them most.

Some great pics of the Spits and 109 and yes I can imagine they are quite good as PSS models. I have liked the funfighter sized models since as a teenager they started to make an appearance either as Cambria products or the Micro Mold /Rojair range of models or even as some of the plans that were published in RCM&E (Ian Peacock) for the Spitfire and ME109, and before them the Mini Sea Fury. The size is handy for the car, launching and flying fun, and the fact that nowadays they make a good electric conversion or PSS model provide a lot of enjoyment. I certainly agree the P51 and FW190 were easy to build.

Nice models. I had the P51 and FW190 from Cambria which were both I.c. One had a Enya 19 while the other was Irvine 20 powered. The Irvine was a good choice as the Enyaxlacked grunt. I am looking to get a Cambrian Spitfire for electric to see how it compares. It will be good to hear how your Spit performs.

Good point Cuban we have seen some massive changes over teh years and so finding the next new start turn is harder to come by. Some valid observations of those things that impacted at the time (and not necessarily physically impacting the ground or another model). Regarding the Pulse Jets, yes ever since I saw Jo Coolen (excuse if spelling is wrong) at Plumpton years ago. Most memorable knowledge aside form occassionaly scorching the grass was when one of his models was gliding in to land clipped the top of a tree and we watched as model continued in to land hardly affected, and top few feet of tree fell to the ground. From a flying perspective it is hard as shows have upped the ante over the years with firsts that become commonplace. Think of the points Cuban made, also things like large scale models, large scale B29, electric powered B29 and Jetex X1, Dambusters Bouncing Bomb, Flying Lawnmowers etc. Maybe the way would be to have a survey of modellers as to what they want to see at shows. Tricky as previously mentioned different type shows might have different slants on flying programme.

Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 02/07/2019 15:14:51: Posted by Lima Hotel Foxtrot on 02/07/2019 13:16:56: Posted by Jon - Laser Engines on 01/07/2019 16:19:23: So what you see fly is what you can buy at the stalls behind you. As i have mentioned before (this same discussion last year) there is a problem here as people wont pay money to watch an acrowot fly. For a start it would be small at the safe distances we have to fly at and then if you wanted to see an acrowot you would just go to the local field and there will probably be one or something similar there. Its a balance and they are working on it. Maybe not an Acrowot singular, but I'd pay good money to see 50 or 100 in the air at once! You could have a competition to see who actually lands after the carnage! And who will finance said carnage? Its a great idea but you again rely on the pilots to supply and pay for their own models. Even a foamy acrowot is 100 odd quid and i wouldnt want to be throwing that away. Remember that each slot runs twice a day, so that could cost you £400 in foamies alone if you were unlucky. Very valid point Jon, I remember the days when the Ripmax Team were flying Rapiers and can remember at both Sandown, Plumpton and Hastings show weekends a high attrition rate on models on the Saturday and some frantic searching for replacements to fulfil the Sunday show slots. IIRC the models were supplied (but still costly weekend for Ripmax). It can look great to have these slots but can be very costly be it to modeller(s) or manufacturer(s). Added to that the fact that a number of the pilots, manufacturers and their models support multiple shows it can be quite a challenge - especially if you have to repair or build replacement models! Similarly, we as responsible people should consider how we want to promote our hobby/sport. Lots of crashes and mid-air collisions may look entertaining but does not necessarily promote model flying in a positive light to the public and authorities - especially in this day with the high visibility that social media provides. I am not sure if this helps boost show visitors or jaundices public opinios of model flying. I daresay there are others better positioned to have a view on this.

I think Doc's comment is true what we tend to see in flying clubs is not unique to our hobby but other hobbies and sports too, and I agree we all join for different reasons. I currently belong to a club that has a membership of some 36 or so, and we probably get about 8 or so at the field on a Sunday (although a couple of small groups fly on a Saturday or mid-week), and about half the membership at the monthly club meeting My previous club had its membership grow from about 70 to over 150 in the space of a few years. Despite its size and growth we regularly had about some 30 or so at club meetings and about 12-20 at the field on a Sunday morning, and about 10 for grass cutting duties. When doing any public displays we tended to have same faces as at the field on a Sunday. At the end of the day a club only exists on the basis of a collective group of people that have a common interest. There will always be some that embody all that a club requires in terms of commitment and support, and there will always be some on the fringes for various reasons.

Further to my earlier post. I was born n bred in Sussex and my LMS was in Hastings which I frequented for many years until I moved out of the area. I knew the owner (Roy Griffin) and staff well from a teenage lad to adult and it is fair to say that my family (as my dad and grandfather were also into aircraft, boats, and cars) spent money over the years but also had support back either with discounts (or even sponsorship in the case of my model car racing). As a teenager the owner saw some potential in me and said to my dad that I needed better cells and promptly gave me a pack of quality cells which transformed my racing. I have spent best part of half a century into modelling and certainly can say that those experiences really boosted my interest. While still in Sussex was when I first came across Al Senior of Al's Hobbies fame over in Eastbourne and he was helpful from day one. I also used to go to SMC and can positively recommend them. When I moved to Essex I was lucky to in my time have Radio-Active, Colin Bliss, Colchester A1, Balsa Cabin and also Hobbystore and Galaxy Models. Oh, and I came across Al when Hobbystore opened up and also when he started Al's Hobbies. Sadly, some are no longer trading. In all cases the staff tended to be more helpful than not, and fair to say that they all tend to be active modellers. Online ordering has a place, but call me old fashioned I think LMS are important for not only the service they provide in model bits and pieces, but in promoting local clubs (which is how many new members often join clubs), help, guidance and support, and can also provide a social environment at times.

I try to support LMS when I can because I know and recognise their importance, not least in servicing my needs but also the hobby industry and local clubs. It is a two way process of knowing the shop owner and him knowing you and and other customers so they can try to meet your needs. At teh same time it is true that the wholesalers minimum order demands can be daunting for LMS owners. Yes I do also buy things online because I cannot get them locally always but at the end of the day we as modellers play a part in the direction and shape of model trade. I have to say there is more fun in going to my LMS, looking and spending, and also finding other things that grab my attention to spend money then or next visit.

Wow it has been interesting seeing the posts over the past day. For my tuppence worth comments: First, I think it depends on the type of model show i.e.is it a big trade show as Sandown used to be, a fun relaxing weekend show like the old Plumpton show or something in between. The requirements and challenges can be diverse. Secondly, traders (if a trade show bias) will have some determined views about promotion of their products etc. That said, comments about how trading has changed is very true. Back in the 70's it was not so much about gettting those bargains as being able to get bits and pieces and kits etc that you might not get in your local shop, whereas in the 80's and 90's we saw a massive growth in product choice bulk purchases and bargain deals (all fantaastic times) but the retail world (and model industry) have all had changing times and pressures and now I think the real deal is you can save possibly paying for delivery by stocking up at shows with added benefit of some good flying and catch up with old friends etc. That said, traders these days struggle to have the stocks of parts and we should recognise there are some limitations these days. At the end of the day it is nice regardless of whether a trade show or family fun type show play an important part. Thirdly, flying I think is true that there is very much a high gloss high cost glitz which can be appealing and has a place, but again depending on the show type ther eshould be a good spread on the type of models be they jet, i.c., electric or scale, fun fly, aerobatic, kit, artf, or scratch built, and this is where organiser have to plan carefully for their target show visitors. Not necessarily having too much of the same thing. Variety is the spice of life and after a while too much of the same thing be it lots of jet models, or groups of Panics, funfighters, or kitchen sinks blasting around can also be detrimental. Some fun activities are always good to and sometimes fun activities such as balloon bursting, limbo or other light hearted fun competitions, can be fun for spectators and pilots alike and be entertaining. But as other posts have stated, most pilots build and own their models and often out of their own pocket are funding (albeit they have free entry) their flying, and if they lose their enjoyment you end up with fewer willing pilots. At the end of the day shows need to be entertaining. Flying, trading, demonstrations, fun activities (and some other distractions not necessarily flying specific), food and drink, chance to meet old friends and catch up, and not forgetting toilets, and favourable weather gods all equal a successful show. I like the idea of the train along the flightline at North Weald - a great idea.

Hi Chris, My first set of gear was a second hand set of Skyleader Clubman which had the two 4.8v DEAC's which had a split to enable charging of each. I learnt as a Teenager having to replace the DEAC's. My dad had a set of Clubman Super 27FM and that had 4.8v packs. My understanding (if I was told correctly) was that while splitting to two 4.8v packs made charging off a 12v battery achievable was in part true, it also made it easier and cheaper for Skyleader in bulk buying 4.8v packs. As a professional engineer I would echo other comments about using the equipment now for models as the reasons about age of components are all true. That said, returning it to functional use is still nice. But if looking to use it for flying I would convert to 2.4GHz.

I think jumping onto Cuban and Jon's posts (and sitting on the fence at the same time) I would say the format has evolved over the years (and you can argue that the world changes etc) but if it changes and is not so appealing I agree positive feedback on what works and what does'nt is what organisers need from people. At the same time there is also the argument that if you don't change things to cater for changes (because you might have the view that change is not necessary based on prior history) then that also can lead to shows becoming less appealing. That said, having been involved in model and full size shows there can be a miriad of constraints that affect what you can do, aside from legislative changes, health and safety, or site operating restrictions, sometimes other factors such as general direction of modelling direction (i.e. think of ARTF's vs scratch, kit or plan built models) pilots own interests, and also model trade itself (and lets face it traders have their own headaches to overcome to achieve sales, etc. No one is ever going to please all of the people all of the time, but maybe there should be some useful universal thread or forum for model shows for reasonable positive feedback to show organisers, trade and even pilots, that allows them to formulate plans for future shows. Posters must post sensiblly, as if people want more shows, better shows, more trading, traders want to maximise involvement and sales, and pilots opportunities or thoughts on what to fly or routines. Lets face it there are small armies of people who work tirelessly to organise and participate in shows (thank you one and all), and the number and variety of shows these days has sadly shrunk from what used to exist. We all have a vested interest in the future of our hobby cum sport like never before.

In terms of rc equipment I have been an ardent user of Futaba since 1976 - so both 27 and 35 and 40 MHz, and the equipment has been extremely reliable over all those years for planes, cars and boats. I still use 27 and 35 but have from start of 2017 used Spektrum for planes (have used Spektrum in cars and model heli's since 2013). To date my DX9 Black has performed fantastically, and from what I have seen of others using lesser variants of Spektrum they are all good. My club used to be Futaba dominant, now it is very much Spektrum with only one or two members using Futaba. I endorse Cuban8's comments above. Spektrum is easier to use i.e. setup if you are not tech savvy, but Futaba with a little patience will give same result. My own reason for changing was in part driven by club majority ise of Spektrum, and the fact that Futaba has had a history of changing propagation formats over the years meaning you end up buying more receivers (this is in part what has led to a shift and the cost). Other manufacturers such as Jeti and Taranis etc have their advocates but at the end of the day it depends on what you require of the equipment, how deep your pockets are and to some extent the amount of use it will have. In ending I do not regret my switch over to Spektrum, but I do have a soft spot for Futaba for all the years of use and reliability (I have a FF8 still in use from 1998 and some even older equipment for cars and boats). Spektrum has now become established and is likely to continue so.

Some good comments for sure and yes aside from Brexit, the ridiculous restrictive registration legislation and of course exchange rates on world trade to the artf (and for that matter any other parts modelling related) it is disconcerting the current state of affairs. I was at my club's monthly club night last night and we were talking about future meeting chats/fun/knowlede sharing. One of the subjects that came up was 'what about building models from plans?' It was freely acknowledged that a sizeable number of the membership had moved to the ARTF camp, although a number of us were v much still build from plan, kit, own design, and 3D print models. It was interesting as looking at the membership I am possibly one of the youngest members (now approaching mid 50's) and most of the ARTF camp were those of close to, or pensionable age, which is also a sad reflection how we struggle to get younger modellers these days. Perhaps we should be less worried about getting ARTF's and more concerned about losing the art of building from kit or plan. I am not anti ARTF in fact it is fair to say there some excellent quality models to choose from, but it shows that people are losing some of their modelling skills.

Build as per plan. Having built J60 and also Black Magic with both starting as i.c. and converting to electric just build as per plan as far as wing dihedral is concerned at least, and of course CofG. They fly beautifully on electric power whether with a good old brushed Speed 600 and gearbox, or with brushless 3536 motor and 3s lip pack. The thing is they are great fun and great even using them to 'thermal soar'. Just remember to think how you will modify to access and hold the battery pack in so that connecting the pack is easy. One of the members in my club keeps taking the wings off every time to change, conect or disconnect his batteyr pack.

Many companies not just in modelling but other industries are in a similar vein. Part of this is the impact of Brexit or rather as a consequence of the delay in Brexit. Some organisations built up buffer stocks to cover a period of a few months while others delayed making decisions on placing orders to await what impact on costs Brexit had. I suspect things might settle down by September ahead of the next planned Brexit - oh and there goes summer for another year. When all else fails DIY - build from a British kit or plan.

Firstly, as one of the 'small' number of flyers who have responded I think it is a shame that more have not. Weight of numbers really does count - especially where anything political is concerned. Just look at the US and the progress (or not) in banning firearms because of the National Rifle Association membership lobbying! I remember issues around frequency allocation and regulation and also some sites, and support from bodies such as the BMFA are vital for protecting our hobby (or sport). As it is the weight of numbers is not massive even with all of the membership responding, but if we are slilent - then we have ourselves to blame almost as much as the irresponsible and criminally minded people that the changes being outlined are supposed to prevent. Although I for one can see absolutely no impact at preventing said criminals from indulging themselves - unless they were foolish enough to register of course. I do wish the BMFA luck in the negotiations as I regrettably can foresee an impact on model flying. Not only necessarily older modellers who are on a pension, but more worryingly the impact on encouraging younger modellers who are not only the future of the hobby, but also Britains aerospace industry, or even RAF, Fleet Air Arm or Army Air Corps, or Air Training Corps, as many first got their interest from model flying. I have a son who does model flying arising from my interest, and also involvement in aerospace, who after completing his studies wants to join the RAF. I know of a few others who through Cubs and Scouts introduction to model flying have then gained more of an interest and have also joined the RAF or Army Air Corps, and have either been in the ATC or are currently. Food for thought for those who might not have become involved yet?

Fantastic seeing the Cumulus it looks fantastic. A few years back a mate of mine had a Cirrus that he had originally from the late 70's early 80's that he dug out and overhauled it - complete with his old Futaba M series and with new batteries that model flew superbly off a bungee. Graupner produced some very fine models that were quality definitely in their time of the 70's and 80's - not just in aircraft, but in boats and cars. I loved flying the Cirrus and it smacked of quality.

Love the conversion job Simon Chaddock the model looks really slick and hopefully will fly well.

One of the guys in my club has been 3D printing a number of his models the past couple of years and include Spitfire Stearman, and currently a decent sized Corsair. I have been quite impressed with what he has achieved, and when he re-kitted his Spitfire ... he just set the printer to work again and installed everything inside it. I believe his only comment has been about the type of cyano used being important for strength. This certaainly is an interesting area that will slowly take off and become established practice possibly over the next few years. I like the sound of the P38, mind you a Mosquito would be good.

That looks really nice great job done, and enjoy many hours flying it.

Hi Gordon Both Piers and Percy have valid points with the fact that the brushless equivalent of a Speed 600 is considerably more powerful, and that the fuselage is a good width. At the end of the day if you go for a sizeable power increase to what it was designed for, consider whether you need to strenghten the wing panel joins/braces or not. In theory the existing design should be adequate as after all the glider can be bungee'd. After my post yesterday it has got me very much planning on building another Sonata.

Hi Gordon, I saw your message about the Sonata E. I have built two of in my time. The first I built back in 1997 and that was Speed 600 powered with 7 cell nicad and later nimh pack. I made a couple of modifications at the time in making some lightening holes using a tank cutter in the tail plane and fin but also really shaped the rear fuselage to not only reduce weight but to streamline fuselage. I also made the wing two piece with a couple of tube and wire joiners to make it easy to transport. I had many many flights with it like this. A few years back I built another same modifications as above but for an outrunner. It is actually quite easy. I had a 2826 1400kv Overlander motor and 3S 1500mAh Lipo pack and all I did was make a new bulkhead that I mounted the motor on behind the existing one which was opened out to ensure no interference with the motor and fitted an 8x6 folding prop. The end result was a far lighter glider which still required some ballast. To be honest if you have a 2200mAh or similar 3S pack it will be better than adding too much ballast and is what I ended up doing. If it needs weight in the nose it might as well be useful. I would suggest you remember to make things light as possible with fuselage and tail aft of the wing. I really have a soft spot for the Sonata and might now have to pop in Balsa Cabin to get a third model. This time for my son.

It also shows how many of us are older modellers too and how good we are at hoarding. Yes the Kama Sutra was a lovely model to fly. Two of the members in the Hastings club back in the circa 77-79 had built them and they flew very nicely IIRC. One was Webra powered and piped and seemed to fly particularly nicely (might have been the pilot too). It would be good to see a pic of the model when finished on here. Good luck with it.