Jon H

Further small update. Almost all of the engines i have here are now sold. I think only 70's are left although frankly i have lost track its been so busy. No more engines are going to be completed before i leave at the end of the week so now all sales will be through model shop leeds. MSL are accepting orders through their website for engines that are out of stock. Just be aware that its first come first served and the number of orders may exceed the number of engines available. Be aware too that lead times will be long as the remaining engines are to be assembled after i leave.

Just an update on spares. The O rings we use are all available as standard sizes. The codes are listed below but will be passed on to model shop leeds. Getting more is as simple as calling the O ring supplier and asking for a bag. BS004 - Slow run needle BS005 - Main needle BS008 - Pushrod tube and rocker shaft 0045-10 - Main needle jet assy BS011 - Small carb/exhaust stub BS012 - Large Carb/exhaust stub BS029 - Front bearing housing. The same is true of valve springs. The spec is going to be held by the company we buy them from. Getting more is as simple as phoning up and ordering them so there is no worry there. For reference again, bearings. 608-2rs - 45, 50, 61, 62, 70, 75 and 80 front bearing. Remove rear rubber seal 608 - Pinion drive bearing, all engines. 6001-2rs - 90, 100, 120, 150, 155, 120v, 150v, 160(all), 180v, 200(all), 240v, 300v*, FT310 front bearing. remove rear seal 6001 - 45, 50, 62 and 70 rear bearing 6002 - 61, 75, 80, 90, 100, 120, 150, 155, 120v, 150v, 160(all), 180v, 200(all), 240v, 300v*, FT310 rear bearing. 6201-2rs - 180, 300v, 360v front bearing. remove rear seal. 6202 - 180, 300v, 360v rear bearing. 61902 - Middle crank bearing for inline's. * newer engines use the smaller bearing. Old 300v's use the larger 62XX bearings. I mentioned there might be a few oddballs for sale. I have a small number of petrol engines available, but most are incomplete. One is complete, has been test run but thats it. It will run fine, but as already mentioned they are not fully supported for spares (theres another thread here somewhere). I then have 4 incomplete engines which will be available. The core engine is complete, but they are missing their fuel pumps and carbs. I plan to fit them with a standard backplate, and then sell them in one of two configurations. As the engine with exhaust and cdi unit but no carb. you can do what you want for a carb, experiment with whatever you like and basically use it as a platform for your own tinkering. Alternatively, i can fit them with a glow carb and sell them as a normal 'glow' 180 but with CDI ignition. If these are of interest to anyone please contact me directly.

No problem shipping down under 👍

Quite a scene i find in my inbox this morning. I will get the whinge out of the way first. Please stop trying to order spares. Its not covid times any more and i am not selling loo roll, relax, its all in hand. As already mentioned model shop leeds will be managing spares support and even after the factory closes spares are still going to be in plentiful supply as long as people do not hoard things they do not need. Things like valve springs are dead easy as someone need only phone up the company who make them for us and order a bag. 500 springs will set you back about 2 grand, but you will have your springs and can sell them to all. With that out of the way i would like to say a big thank you to everyone for their messages of support. A number of you have asked what i will be doing with myself and i am quite proud of the fact that i have been offered a position by the Martin Baker Aircraft Company and will be assisting with the assembly of their various aviation safety systems. This is going to be a big change but i am looking forward to this new position.

Gents Geoff does not wish to sell. That's it, end of story. No houses are involved, tax is not involved. Its his company, he makes the choices, and he chooses not to sell it. What anyone else thinks about it is completely irrelevant as this is the way it is. I have requested this topic be dropped and will not spend my last week with the company locked in yet another pointless forum battle. i will be asking the mods to remove the respective posts as they contribute nothing and i have far better things to do.

I knew it would need addressing.. Can i buy/is the business for sale? No. Geoff own's both companies and does not wish to sell. If we can avoid further conversation on this point it would be appreciated.

Hi Guys. Thanks for the comments so far. After 13 years here its going to be a bit of a fresh start for me but i am looking forward to my new job and a new challenge. I am sure there are questions, so here are some answers that i hope will cover most of them. When will production cease? No exact date has been set. We are in the process of manufacturing the parts needed to balance up components we have in stock so the engines can be finished. Providing everything works as planned I will be leaving the company on the 22nd March. In the meanwhile I will be working to finish as much as I can. This will continue after my departure until the component supply has been depleted. It would have been ideal for me to stay until the end, but things didn’t quite line up that way. Most likely the final engines will be completed in the early summer. What about warranty on these new engines for sale? Warranty support will be provided on all engines sold within a year of the final close date. I have agreed with the boss to do the work to support the engines in this regard after I leave the company. Parts will also be held back to cover our warranty obligations, and I will do any warranty repairs on my own time to support our customers. This is for warranty support only and things like crash damage will not be covered irrespective of the age of the engine. What about spares? Provision for spares support will be made and the most common spares will be available into the future. Once production of the engine themselves is finished and total remaining parts is known a final production run of spares will take place to give a good stock for future years. There is no need to panic buy spares so please don’t. Will I be able to get my engines serviced? Effective immediately we can no longer accept engines back to the factory for service. Other companies offer rebuild services and they should be contacted for your servicing needs. An exception will likely be made for Laser inline engines as I am the only person who knows how to assemble them, but I will discuss this with their respective owners as we go along. How many new engines are coming? And can I pre order one? Batches of most sizes of engine are currently underway or planned. Batch sizes vary and are not yet confirmed. The exceptions are the inline engines, petrol engines, and all 160 size engines as there are no plans to make more of any of them. There may be a few 160v’s towards the end, but that is not clear at the moment. We will not be able to accept any direct sales after my departure and will not accept pre orders for items not in stock. After I leave, all engines and spares will be purchased through Model Shop Leeds. In the meanwhile I do have engines here which are available for sale. Once you leave the company can you still offer service and technical support? No. With the closure of the company I am back to being a modeller again and the assistance I provide will be in line with that status. I will post on Laser related topics on the forum when I see them, but I am no longer a direct point of contact for servicing or tech support. So I think that’s it. If there are any more questions post them below and I will answer as best I can. I will be posting other details here as they become available. There may also be some odd bits for sale that are here at the factory. Sadly the Frankenstein FT200 twin prototype was dismantled, but there may be a few things for sale for those who are interested. There will also be a bunch of random parts left at the end like odd crankcases etc. These may or may not be sold off on ebay or similar but that is also unclear at the moment. As Geoff has already said, we would like to thank all of our supporters over the years and I would like thank all of those who have supported me personally during my time here. I am sure I bump into you all again at shows in the future.

To the Laser Engine Community, It’s with a heavy heart that I must inform you that AGC Sales/Laser engines will be closing in the near future. After 40 years of developing and building Laser Engines it’s time for me to retire and close AGC Engineering which produces the many components required to build a high quality Laser engine It been an incredible journey with an invaluable learning curve and we leave knowing we have created a quality product. To our customers and supporters: Thank you. Your belief and trust in us has been the driving force behind our every step. To my dedicated team: Jon for your design creativity and Chris for turning the idea into reality. Your passion and hard work have been the core of our journey. I am grateful beyond words for every moment. While this chapter ends, the bonds and memories we’ve created endure. We are dedicated to ensuring a smooth transition for our customers in the coming weeks. For any queries you may have we have created a list of FAQs that may assist you which will be released soon. I’m eternally grateful to everyone that was involved, especially my father, Reg Gross and Neil Tidey who by chance in 1982 met to create the Laser 61 engine. I’d like to take this opportunity to wish my team of suppliers and customers all the best in the future. Geoffrey Gross, Director AGC, Engineering and AGC Sales

I can confirm that Petrol development has been abandoned that the development engines sold are not fully supported for spares. The core engine is supported as its parts are common to the glow version. The parts that are no longer available are the bespoke petrol parts in the fuel pump and carb. The initial run of engines depleted my supply of pump parts. Some carb parts are left but testing revealed a need to redesign both the carb and pump as they were not as robust or consistent as i wanted. However progress was slow due to low customer interest, increasing final retail price and our work on low oil glow fuel making the project a bit irrelevant. It is unfortunate nothing came of this project, but the engine requires far greater development time and resource than is available to get it working to my satisfaction. Also in its final form it would cost nearly 800 quid and that is simply not a good value product to sell. With absolutely no interest from customers now the whole thing has become a bit on a non starter so was abandoned. In the event that the pump or carb does fail the engine is not a complete loss and a glow carb can be fitted. The engine can then run on methanol with CDI. While not an ideal solution the engine would be fully functional and live a long life in that form.

You have 2 sticks, 2 hands, and a computer between your ears. Some models naturally climb with power and/or speed and sometimes there is no other choice than just to fly it. I have very few models that maintain their trim through the speed range i fly them and holding a good shove of forward elevator is not at all uncommon on a fast pass. However, you do need to make sure the model is at least as sorted as it can be first. I wouldnt be diving into a mix of any kind before getting the basics sorted.

More or less as the others. CG issue, Rates issue, definately expo can be a cause, and also pilot skill. Pilot induced oscillation is a big thing for full size pilots to deal with. However, porpoise can mean a number of things. Where does this occur? In normal flight, takeoff, landing, high speed, low speed? My P39 becomes more and more unstable in pitch as speed increases. I need more and more forward elevator pressure but my elevator effectiveness increases with the speed. Beyond a certain point the model becomes very hard to control due to the high sensitivity of the elevator resulting in a PIO situation. My solution is simple, dont fly that fast! If i keep to a scale sort of speed its no bother, i just need to be careful on high speed passes as this wobbliness develops very quickly. In any case, the ultimate root cause of the problem comes down to when/how the problem develops and how it manifests.

I take a sheet of 200-400 grit (whatever is handy) wet/dry paper and fold it in half back to back. I then smear it up with glue and stick it to itself so its gritty on both sides. once dry i cut 'washers' from it and install them between the prop driver and spinner backplate, and between the spinner backplate and prop. I have also used this on smaller engines with plastic spinners and nylon props. Works a treat in all instances.

I run my 60cc laser V's with a single middle bolt and never have any issues. I am not a big fan of multi bolt hubs personally but engines in the past have used knock pins in the prop driver and these can sometimes be helpful.

I got some of these for the flying engine test bench wot4xl here at work. I used them for about 3 minutes on the bench before chucking them back at ripmax. They had very lumpy output, and i was able to send them into a feedback meltdown just by twanging my tx stick accidentally. They would sit there having some sort of seizure until i stopped them as i was getting that whiff of magic smoke. Each one was really hot, clearly this servo epilepsy was sucking down some power. not impressive at all

I wouldnt touch them with a 10 foot pole. Obviously no brand is 100% perfect when it comes to reliability, but you are stacking the deck in your favour sticking with known brands like Futaba, Savox and hitec. As there appears to be no significant saving when it comes to cost either i would simply walk away.

https://www.kingslynnmodelshop.co.uk/savox-sg-0351-standard-size-digital-4-1kg0-17s/ Same price, better servo. Normally i would agree the 311 is fine, but they arent £5.99 any more and do not offer great value.

digital servos hold slightly better, are slightly more accurate etc so can give a slightly more crisp feel. Its pretty subjective mind you and i only use them as they happen to be good on the price/performance ratio while still being a known brand rather than a no name from ali express. Using 4, 5, 6.5, 9 and 11kg analogue and digital servos over the years i cant tell the difference in the air. The models i fly, my flying style etc. Generally i just dont notice the difference. Admittedly my acrowot xl with savox 352 digitals is noticeably crisp and responsive, but as i have never flown it with other servos i cant tell if its better/worse. On the power useage, its not a concern in a model like this. If you had 10 high power (10kg plus) digi's and were slapping the controls about like an animal it would matter, but i use 6v nimh batteries and have no issues. For the model you have digital is no advantage, but if you are buying 4 servos for X cost and you can get digital then i would do so as you can use them later. The savox also share output splines with Futaba and have the uneven number so you can mechanically centre the arms with ease. Hitec do not have this and i have stopped using their servos because of it. I had 4 hitec servos going in a model and they all had wonkey arms which required a bunch of sub trimming and faffing about. This was impossible for the ailerons as i wass using a y lead, so i swapped in some futaba's instead.

Check out the savox 351. Similar price and marginally better spec as its digital. I use them all the time in my WWII stuff on ailerons/rudder up to 90 inch

The problem is, you want the negative expo as it is an aid to things like a landing flare as you end up with softer sticks at greater deflection allowing greater accuracy. However, the servo rotation argument is pretty meaningless if, like many, you fit a 2 inch servo arm and reduce the servo travel to 20% to get the required deflection. Very few go back and move their control linkage closer to the servo or fit a smaller arm. All of this can be achieved without the 5p approach. There is also a misconception about switch flicking as it is mostly confined to takeoff/landing for my warbirds, but hardly ever at all for sport/aerobatic models. I have them set to do all i want them to on a single rate for the most part. To be honest though switch changes are such a non event i am not sure why its such a concern.

Obviously i cannot speak for you but there should be very little workload associated with having a flying rate and a landing rate. Assuming you use the landing rate for takeoff as well its only two switch flips per flight. Admittedly i am very used to flipping switches as most of my models need me to flip gear up, elevator rates low and timer start all within the first 4 or 5 seconds of the flight. Landing is similar with switch flips needed for gear down, flaps half, elevator rate high, aileron rates as required, flaps full. I make my life easier though by flying a proper landing circuit with points of reference on the downwind for each action. This means each is spaced a few seconds apart giving ample time to keep up with proceedings. in either case, i have a practiced procedure stuck in my head and i never deviate from it. Its 2nd nature and i do not even think about it, i just flip 'em. While i can understand the desire to keep things simple you can degrade the performance of the model with this approach as the setup is a compromise. Having two sets of rates, or a flight mode for different phases of flight gives you enhanced controllability and hopefully, more enjoyment of the model. My Warbirds would be so difficult to fly/land without having the setup i do and i wonder if this is why so many folk struggle with warbirds. Its not the model, its the setup.

Its been done about a million times, usually causes a disturbance in the force once we all get going 😉

You do sometimes get engines that just dont work for some reason. I had a saito 180 that never ran as fast as the other one i had and behaved more like a 150. When you run as many engines as i do the differences between them become very stark, even when they have identical theoretical performance. I have test run batches of engines here where some run as expected, but others are just more 'alive' than their mates, while others seem flat and dead by comparison. They all do the same rpm at the top end, idle well etc and so all pass their test run. Its just they have different characters for some reason. I am probably the only person that would actually be able to tell the difference, but to me its very apparent. In the case of the NGH, i wonder if the cam was incorrectly installed due to the timing mark itself being in the wrong place. Had this on an enya 53 that a friend asked me to run in. It just didnt perform, so i checked the timing and saw it was wrong. The timing marks were correctly put together, but the angle of the cam was wrong. I spotted it right away as the enya and laser cam timing/cam profile are extremely similar and it just looked wrong. I compared it to my own 53 and this confirmed my suspicion.

Poor Flyboy didnt know that 😉 I use rates alot on the warbird stuff. I normally need more elevator authority for takeoff/landing and have a higher aileron rate to help me out when landing in choppy conditions. The high rate is also there to help me if an aileron servo decides to die as the increased authority will be helpful if i am down to one, and vital if the servo fails when it is not in the neutral position. If it failed at full deflection on low rate, i need a higher travel from the remaining one to stand a chance of over powering it. Sure its a very unlikely scenario, but its not impossible and its just another line of defence against a loss of control.

18x8 should be very acceptable for a 30cc class 4 stroke. I recommend 18x8 for our 180/200 as more or less the standard prop and i would expect 7500-8000rpm ish depending on the engine and the brand of prop. Aerostar props run fairly fast, so i would be expecting near the top of that rpm range for our engine. Saito always seem to want their engines to rev like mad while spinning a tooth pick. Not sure why. The little saito 45 i have in my Nieuport is turning a 15 inch prop at 6400rpm flat out and i have no bother with it at all...as long as i do not use full throttle for more than about 10 seconds as it then it gets a bit annoyed with me as the temperature rises. As i never need to fly it flat out its simply not a problem. The saito 170r3 i recently worked on recommends a maximum prop size of 16x8 using 15% nitro fuel, but i ran it very happily on a 17x8 using 5%. In fact i wouldnt dream of running it on anything smaller or using more nitro. It ran fine, and even better once i tweaked it. In any case the manual says a 15x8 will run 9400rpm, which works out to 2.4hp calculated. My 17x8 effort ran at 7800rpm or 2.28hp calculated so the engine is still quite comfy in its torque band. Thrust was up by about 2lbs, max pitch speed down a bit, but the thrust increase likely negates this. Propeller tip speed was down by nearly 12m/s so tip noise would be reduced as well. In this instance, there is no disadvantage to the big prop. Incidentally, you can often run larger props with low nitro than you can high as lower nitro fuel slightly reduces compression ratio due to the leaner (number of turns not actual mixture) running of the engine and less incompressible liquid in the cylinder. The petrol radial here will be more tolerant of a big prop as the ignition will not advance with the increase in head temperature like it would in a glow engine. Personally, i would expect to see 7500-8000rpm on an 18x8 and went looking for rpm numbers on these engines as your 6500rpm target seemed low. Reading reports online of 18x6's on these engines running in the 8400-8800 range, then subtracting the 500rpm/inch broad estimate of increased load from the 18x8 vs 18x6, we end up at 7400-7800rpm which is in line with my own prediction. If you are only seeing 5000rpm on an 18x8 there is either a substantial mixture problem, or you are missing a cylinder. If its only running on 2 that would explain the big loss of power. In your earlier video it was running on 3, but you may have an intermittent fault on a spark plug or something causing a cylinder drop out.

How many RPM did you get? and on which prop? I know i have made mention of this a number of times during this thread but you cannot tune/setup/operate engines by fixed numbers. This many turns on a needle, so many rpm, this cylinder head temperature etc. Engines a more nuanced and at our end of the scale they vary massively day to day. As an example, if i say to a customer that one of the Laser engines should do X RPM of Y propeller, i know that anything +- 200rpm on that figure is perfectly normal. Unfortunately, trying to explain to customer A that his engine is fine at 8400rpm despite customer B reporting on a forum that his example of the same engine does 8800rpm on the same prop is very difficult and customer A feels he has a dud engine. But is it the same prop? Different brands will run at different speeds despite the same DxP. In fact i have two seemingly identical APC 16x8's here and they run 500rpm apart when tested back to back on the same engine. It seems APC changed the design somewhere along the line as customers have reported similar issues to me and even sent me their props to test. Also where does customer B fly? Is he in a hotter climate, colder, higher altitude etc. There's a customer in Austria who is half way up a mountain and his engines rev like crazy as the air in thinner. Power is down for the same reason, despite the higher rpm. Day to day variation can easily be 200rpm even here in the UK so the engine might have been fine. Clearly if you were 1000rpm down something is not right. Without observing your procedures for running the engine and having all the data its hard to say what the problem is. However i fear that inadequate adherence to tuning procedures, unfamiliarity with the engine, unnecessary fiddling and dismantling of the carb (in my view as blowing air through a pumped carb can ruin it), and an over reliance on numbers is likely to be the root cause of your problems. If Morris finds a dead otter in the carb or other problem then fine, i will gladly eat my words but i do not think he will find much. If there is a dead otter in the carb why is it there? Where did it come from? Always wash out your fuel system and check for otters (or more likely, grass and fluff).