Gary Manuel

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Progress? It's the first time they've referred to the reversing alarm as a separate entity to the AVAS system. Not holding my breath. ***************************** Dear Gary Manuel, Thank you for your question. We can confirm that we are seeking clarification on the question of the reversing alarm which you raised. This has had to be raised with a different team but we will be in contact with you as soon as we have further information. Thank you for your patience while we work on the matter. Sincerely, Jeet Customer Services Nissan Motor (GB) Limited Opening Hours Mon-Fri: 08:00 to 20:00, Sat: 08:00 to 14:00

Yes, I've thought of that. There's also the motor ombudsman and the press. I haven't made a formal complaint yet either. Plenty of options but that means letting someone else of unknown competence take over control of the situation, which will slow things down and won't be as focussed as my efforts. At the moment, I think I'm best trying to convince the people at Nissan that they have a problem. I think they are in denial - or more likely not admitting the problem due to the work / cost involved. They should have just fitted my car with a switch to silence the alarm like I asked for in the first place.

It's a 3 year lease, so I've got plenty of time.

Just an update on my complaint to Nissan about the reversing alarm. So far, it has just bounced back and forth between customer service "experts" and myself to establish which standards / legislation is applicable. Now it has been escalated to their Technical Department for further clarification. They have not acknowledged that there is anything wrong with their reversing sound, but I have repeatedly called it an "illegal reversing alarm". Thank you for raising my concerns with your Technical Department. Could you please confirm that the further clarification you are seeking is with regards to finding a mechanism for silencing the illegal reversing alarm rather than just providing further information about the AVAS system which I don't need? I am 100% clear on the requirements of AVAS and I perfectly understand how Nissan have got themselves into this UK specific situation. As I understand it, in simple terms; The Nissan Leaf type approval is based upon AVAS being implemented in accordance with EU540/2014 as amended by EU 2019/839. The sound generated by the AVAS system must be a continuous sound which is similar to the sound of a vehicle of the same category equipped with an internal combustion engine (EU540/2014 Annex VIII III.3.(a) refers). The sound of the Nissan reversing alarm is an intermittent metallic noise which is not permitted by EU540/2014 as amended by EU 2019/839 as a specific form of AVAS compliant sound. Where a reversing alarm is fitted to a vehicle however, it is not necessary for the AVAS to generate an additional sound whilst reversing (EU540/2014 Annex VIII II.3.(a) refers). In countries where reversing alarms are legal, Nissan appear to have a legal working solution. Reversing alarms are illegal on non-commercial vehicles under 2000kg at any time within the UK and on all vehicles between the hours of 23:30 and 07:00. The illegal reversing alarm cannot therefore be used as an alternative to AVAS within the UK. If the reversing alarm is silenced on UK based vehicles as I am requesting, another problem will be created. There will be no sound produced whilst reversing and a suitable AVAS compatible sound will be required whilst reversing, and this will need to be tested. I am sympathetic to the situation that I am putting Nissan into, but I believe that I am correct that Nissan are producing an illegal vehicle within the UK. As the number of Nissan electric vehicles of this vintage increases, the noise nuisance will become more apparent and the number of complains and possible legal actions will rise. Imagine a blind person in a supermarket car park with multiple Nissan Leafs reversing and the confusing / hazardous noise this would create. This situation will require correcting at some point in time and surely it is better to address it sooner rather than later in order to minimise the number of vehicles which will require recalling for retrospective firmware alterations. Could you please confirm your plan for making my Nissan Leaf legal for use within the UK. Regards, Gary Manuel

Exactly. Hopefully good for another 32 years and the amount of pollution caused by 5k miles of running you do is not worth losing sleep over.

Hi MattyB. I'm sure that your research is very valid, but I think you have also missed Don's point. He is not comparing the environmental impact of a new petrol car against a new electric car. He is comparing the impact of a new electric car (or any other form of new car) against hanging onto whatever car you currently own until it is life expired. I have always believed that the most environmentally friendly car available is the one you already drive. The amount of damage caused by burning fuel in a car is insignificant compared with the cost of manufacturing / transporting / sourcing materials etc of ANY new car.

Oops

Swann Morton blades take some beating but I find that the open scalpel Handles are a bit of a hazard to leave lying around on a work bench. Yes you can slip a cork or similar onto the blade but I find that the Swann Morton Retractaway handles are the ideal solution. Just get into the habit of retracting the blade when not in use. https://www.scalpelsandblades.co.uk/handle-detail_166_retractaway-premium-knife-swann-morton-product-no-2806-9206-.php

You could always just get on plane and fly to Aden for the winter if you like it there so much. I'm quite happy here in Britain, dark cold winter month's n' all.

Switch position is available and it's right in front of the AVAS module behind the dashboard. Easy to find with Google. I'd be happy if Nissan offered to fit this but TBH they should completely silence the illegal reversing alarm at all times, not just with a switch.

Good idea. I know it's not a big deal but as things are going, it will start to affect more and more people. Things like this need to be harmonised (pun intended) across all brands. A publication like Which might help. I'm an eternal optimist (with a hint of realism), so I'm hoping that Nissan will sort something out. The prospect of litigation and losing future custom is what will concentrate their minds, not what 1 customer thinks.

That comes later on my list. At the moment, I am giving Nissan Customer Services a chance to deal with it. PS. It's not just using it at night that's the problem. It's illegal for any vehicle under 2 Tonnes to have one fitted at all in the UK. Can you imagine the sound of Asda car park in a few years time if all cars sounded like this? The poor old blind person wouldn't know which way to turn. That's why it's illegal and that's why Tesla's, BMWs etc don't have them fitted.

Yes, I could have it silenced within minutes (I listed the options a couple of pages back), but then I'd become liable in the event of an accident and would invalidate the insurance, warranty and terms of lease. I want to silence it the proper way, by getting the manufacturer to fix what I consider to be a manufacturing defect.

It would appear that the legality of the reversing alarm is not a new issue to Nissan. They were forced to delay the sale of UK models back in 2011 for this very reason!!! I'm not sure what has changed since then, other than the recent introduction of the requirement for AVAS. I suspect that they have just shoe-horned the existing reversing alarm sound into the new AVAS system and run with it. My view is that if the reversing beeper was illegal in 2011, then it is still illegal today. Source: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/8880765.nissan-leaf-facing-delay/

Jon. Convince your boss at work that he needs an upgrade and then offer to dispose of the old one 😉

If you read my last post, they should be off at all times. Reversing alarms are reserved for HGVs, busses, plant etc. It is illegal for any car to have a reversing alarm AT ANY TIME!

They might ignore it but I won't unless they give me a valid answer. I don't know whether they are fitted as standard, but if they are, there is a legal requirement for them to be switched off at night (99.(1)(b) below) and in sensitive locations. Here's the complete legislation below. Note that according to (my) emboldened text in part 99(3) this legislation, the Nissan Leaf should not be fitted with one at all - BUT being an EV, it now introduces the new AVAS (simulated engine sound), which applies to reversing as well as forwards driving. This is where the confusion between the reversing beeper and the reversing AVAS sound is coming from. ************************************************************************************ 99.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs, no person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded, any horn, gong, bell or siren fitted to or carried on a vehicle which is— (a)stationary on a road, at any time, other than at times of danger due to another moving vehicle on or near the road; or (b)in motion on a restricted road, between 23.30 hours and 07.00 hours in the following morning. (2) The provisions of paragraph (1)(a) do not apply in respect of the sounding of a reversing alarm when the vehicle to which it is fitted is about to move backwards and its engine is running. (3) No person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded, on a road any reversing alarm fitted to a vehicle— (a)unless the vehicle is a goods vehicle which has a maximum gross weight not less than 2000 kg, a bus, engineering plant, or a works truck; or (b)if the sound of the alarm is likely to be confused with a sound emitted in the operation of a pedestrian crossing established, or having effect as if established, under Part III of the 1984 Act. (4) Subject to the provisions of the following paragraphs, no person shall sound, or cause or permit to be sounded a gong, bell, siren or two-tone horn, fitted to or otherwise carried on a vehicle (whether it is stationary or not). (5) Nothing in paragraph (1) or (4) shall prevent the sounding of— (a)an instrument or apparatus fitted to, or otherwise carried on, a vehicle at a time when the vehicle is being used for one of the purposes specified in regulation 37(5) and it is necessary or desirable to do so either to indicate to other road users the urgency of the purposes for which the vehicle is being used, or to warn other road users of the presence of the vehicle on the road; or (b)a horn (not being a two-tone horn), bell, gong or siren— (i) to raise alarm as to the theft or attempted theft of the vehicle or its contents; or (ii) in the case of a bus, to summon help for the driver, the conductor or an inspector. (6) Subject to the provisions of section 62 of the Control of Pollution Act 1974 and notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (1) and (4) above, a person may, between 12.00 hours and 19.00 hours, sound or cause or permit to be sounded an instrument or apparatus, other than a two-tone horn, fitted to or otherwise carried on a vehicle, being an instrument or apparatus designed to emit a sound for the purpose of informing members of the public that the vehicle is conveying goods for sale, if, when the apparatus or instrument is sounded, it is sounded only for that purpose. (7) For the purposes of this regulation the expressions which are referred to in regulation 37(10) have the meanings there given to them and the expression “restricted road” in paragraph (1) means a road which is a restricted road for the purpose of section 81 of the 1984 Act.

Nah, I'll just drive it. I don't like my neighbours anyway 😉

Alternative speech bubble "For heaven's sake Harold, that's the Nestles, not the Netflix"

As I see it, the UK legislation on using a buzzer / beeper at night in a built up area is clear. If Nissan have a get-out-of-jail-free-card to play, it won't be that the user doesn't really need to drive the car at night if he plans his life properly (and doesn't work night shifts). It might be that they argue that the sounder is not a horn, bell, gong or siren. It might be that they argue that it is a safety feature which is there to warn pedestrians day or night. It might just be that the product is type approved to EU legislation and that's that. The bottom line is that they have messed up, combining the reversing sounder and the AVAS into one module. The EU legislation has forced them (and other manufacturers when they catch up) to provide a safety audible tone which cannot be switched off. This is supported by UK legislation. Unfortunately, the non-mandatory reversing sound which needs to be disabled at night within the UK cannot be switched off / reduced in volume on the Nissan as it is part of the mandatory system. I doubt very much whether I'll get anywhere but I think it's a cause worth fighting. If it makes them consider it for future models then it will have been worth it.

PS it does have an option to set a speed limit.

It's a Nissan Leaf, not a Nissan Cinderella. It doesn't need to be home before the clock strikes twelve. My car is capable of exceeding the speed limit, but it is my choice whether I do this or not. Similarly it is my choice whether I drive the car after midnight. The car has lights fitted, presumably to allow me to drive at night. Problem is that I can't legally reverse it off the drive to do so.