Just another plank......

[Peter Miller]

Alastair: I never designed a Cessna Skymaster. Twin booms always put me off.
Terry: A friend bought that Seafury, I forget how many pounds of lead he put in the nose to get the balance right!
That Ta 152 H looks good but I would be tempted tto cheat and increase the chord for a first model fighter., also use washout. That would mean increasing taiplane area a bit too.
Another subject that has possibilities is the bell Airacrobra. Even has a trike U/C. It has a bit more area than most fighters for a given scale.
A good source of 3-views is Aviation News

http://www.aviation-news.co.uk/aircraftplansservice.html

[Terence Lynock]

Another subject that has possibilities is the bell Airacrobra. Even has a trike U/C. It has a bit more area than most fighters for a given scale.


Hi Peter,
I do have a plan for a P39 somewhere, a chap on eBay was selling ex-mag plans for 0.99p and 50p post and packing so I grabbed all the WW2 single and twin engined warplane plans I could including a couple of German experimentals the Arado 555 and B&V 208 both of them flying wings.

The one thing that has put me off the Mustang without u/c is that bloody big shovel of an air intake underneath, would probably find a rabbit or two in it after a flying session,

regards, Terry

[Peter Miller]

Actually the Mustang intake is not really that big and the bottom of the scoop is what hits the ground first.
I am particulalry fond of the Kawasaki Hein. That aircraft has perfect proportions for a pattern ship.
Another one is the Macchi 202 Folgore. The tail plane is small but it works well at scale size.
Have you checked out the Aviation News 3 views yet?

[Erfolg]

Thought of modding it as a high altitude variant H-1? wingspan was about 47 feet so would be even more like a glider at low altitude I should think, I have a plan file on my HDD somewhere of the long wing variant if you want it mate,prints out in 'Tile Print' at about 5 sheets,

The Ta 152 I have modelled is a long wing version, with reduced taper from 0.5 to o.66. I think that is why it is a lot slimmer than the 190, when modelled at a particular scale.

As I understand the versions made

E-2 High altitude recon/fighter 48ft 7.5"
V25
V26
H-0 High altitude fighter
H-0/R11 All weather fighter
H-1/R11 All weather fighter
H-1/R21 All weather fighter
H-1/R31 All weather fighter
H-2 All weather fighter
H-10 Recon. fighter

All used same engine, Jumo 213E, 47feet 4.5" wing,different armamant, many just Projects.

Regards

Erfolg

[Terence Lynock]

I am particulalry fond of the Kawasaki Hein. That aircraft has perfect proportions for a pattern ship.
Another one is the Macchi 202 Folgore. The tail plane is small but it works well at scale size.
Have you checked out the Aviation News 3 views yet?

Hi Peter,
I have magazine plans of decent quality ofr the Ki61-I and Ki61-II versions one of which is for a slope or powered version, also plans for the 202 Folgore and Veltro.
I have always liked the Ki-61 and if it had been fittes with a decent DB 603 the Yanks would have had a hell of a time with it, the Italian aircraft always had style and the MC 200-205 family were excellent aircraft, strange that the Ki61 and MC 202 had the same engine so I suppose we both like in-line engined aircraft.
The Ki61 plans I have are quite easy to build from so perhaps that will interest my mate, if he crashes it he can always take it home and fit a new wing or whatever (cant do that with RTF's) which is a bonus,

regards, Terry

[Terence Lynock]

H-0 High altitude fighter
H-0/R11 All weather fighter
H-1/R11 All weather fighter
H-1/R21 All weather fighter
H-1/R31 All weather fighter
H-2 All weather fighter
H-10 Recon. fighter

Ah so it was the H-0 with the long wing that went into production, must say with that long nose and extended fuselage plus the long wing it tended to look a bit fragile, also have the plans for the short wing Ta152 that looks very much like the 190D-9,

regards, Terry

[Erfolg]

It is not apparent to me what the (fundamental) differences are between the D9 and 152 other than wing span.

It is apparent that the D9 took a standard 190 airframe minus the engine and attachments, and inserted a section in the aft end of the fuselage. A Junkers engine was then attached (211).

The first Versuch (research) 152 airframes took D9 fuselage and engine and attached a new wing.

In the past I have read quite a lot to try and understand what was really different. At one time I thought they re-engineered the airframe to make it easier to make (just as Ford did to the Merlin) and improve efficiency. In the end I came to the conclusion it was just re-designated as Vickers did to the Spitfire when they gave it a laminar flow wing i.e. Spiteful.

With regards to the proportions of the 152, it is this what attacted me to it. One of the issues with some of the scale 2nd World War fighters, is that the bodies are big realive to the wing area. In addition pre ARTF most scale aircaft were heavy. Difficult to fly especially dead stick. The 152 has proportions similar to a lot of intermediate trainers. It is easy to build light. I am sure that the sucess of the Ripmax Spitfire (brilliant flight charachteristics) is its light weight. I have sen many of these aircraft perform at least as well as a IC plane on Brushless

Regards

Erfolg

[Alistair Taylor]

This seems to suggest that they had to do quite a lot of redesigning to incorporate heavier armament, cockpit pressurisation, additional fuel storage and different methods of manufacture enforced by the shortage of aluminium (e.g. the use of stainless steel spars). See;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_152

I don't think they've got the correct three-view for this article, but the rest sounds plausible. Confronted with the possibility of the B29, you'd want a high-altitude interceptor pronto, and for that you'd need pressurisation.



AlistairT

[Peter Miller]

The late and sadly missed Royal Kits did a nice Hein but with a thick symmetrical wing. Saw one in the club and there is an unbuilt one in the club but we haven't seen the member for about a year.

[Erfolg]

Alistair

I would be suprised if they used stailess steel for two reasons

a) Stainless steel contains nickel in the region of 18%, does vary dependant on type (Austinitic, Martinsitic, Feritic). As nickel is very useful in making high temperture alloys, Nimonic etc. and being in short supply, I would think it would go into Jet Engines.
b) The properties of stainless steel are not that different to some Carbon Steels to make benefits debatable (UTS, Youngs Modulos etc.) Does work harden nicely though. Should not rust in a Oxygen environment.

It is of passing note that many of the aluminuim and magnesium alloys used extensively in Britian (after the 2 nd War) came out off the Germans need to find high strength low weight materials.

Regards

Erfolg

[Erfolg]

As I was wandering to the newsagents for my daily paper, a sudden shudder ran down my back, I had just made another mistake, re stainless steel.

The principal alloying element is chrome at up to 26%, I think the max for nickel is about 10%. The point I was trying to make all these materials were in short supply, for the Germans during the war.

Point of intrest it is a chrome oxide film which makes stainless, rust free. Therefore remove the oxygen, damage the film and let corrosion begin.

Shamefaced

Erfolg

[Myron Beaumont]

Erfolg
You're just a bit rusty
don't worry British Leyland never got the proportions or the "ingredients" right either !
Grumpy Myron LOL

[Terence Lynock]

Germany wasnt too hot on glue manufacture either, did it not occure to them to analise the glue in a Mosquito to see what D.H were using to stick their toys together?.

Is the pending Typhoon plan in a special edition of the mag or Novembers issue or whatever?,

regards, Terry

[Malcolm Fisher]

Erflog, Re stainless steel.

I served my time as a metallurgist and once was given a very rusty piece of steel to analyse.

It turned out to have 13% chromium and was classed as "stainless".

There are many so called stainless steels which will rust in certain conditions.

I know of washing machines which had "stainless" drums which produced rust marks on the laundry and some organisations went back to machines with enamelled drums because of this.

[Graham Ashby 123]

Terry, the Typhoon is for the 'Special' which is due out on the 28th September. Assuming nothing changes between now and then, there'll be CNC parts, plus a vacuum moulded cowl and canopy. Time's getting on though so keep your fingers crossed for some good weather. We still need studio and flying shots. If anyone other than Tony was behind it I'd probably be a little hesitant. In truth I'm quite confident that it'll make the issue.

[Erfolg]

As I was saying reducing conditions are a favoutite, in addition are chloride attack (washing up liquids , any of the Halogines), intergranular corrosion, galvanic corrosion.

I had occaison to be involved in sentancing, a significant quantity of Stainless Pipe that had been left for years by the coast. When the material was drawn for fabrication, it was all scrap, pitting corrosion, chlorides in the sea air.

I also noticed that my mothers stainless steel cutlery was showing pitting corrosion where the handles were welded to the fork, dished portion. Clearly showed the effect of disruption in the grain structure from the welding process and washing up liquid causing the pitting.

Its good to know there are others out there, who have an intrest in Millers indices, Weibull modulus etc.

Regards

Erfolg

[Terence Lynock]

It turned out to have 13% chromium and was classed as "stainless".

Dont know if you are aware of the Bristol 188 research aircraft but the sole example is in the collection at Cosford, it was to have been Titanium but the cost was way too high so they used stainless steel which has rusted in the past but I think it has now been coated to stop oxidisation,

regards, Terry

[Terence Lynock]

We still need studio and flying shots. If anyone other than Tony was behind it I'd probably be a little hesitant. In truth I'm quite confident that it'll make the issue.

It always helps to have someone you can rely on at the wheel, I think I would attempt to build the cowl for that bird just for the hell of it, may have to do one for a Tempest V for my mate yet!,

regards, Terry

[arthur bishop]

Mike,Salutations ! I always found the Oxford was the main first trainer for twins,there were Annies of course but for ab initio twin engine training the Oxbox was it. I didnt like the Oxford myself,I loved the Anson, (providing I was not detailed to wind up or down the undercart!)oh by the way,it was advised not to look at the tailplane too often on the older Ansons,..it moved in an unsettling way!!

[Terence Lynock]

,it was advised not to look at the tailplane too often on the older Ansons,..it moved in an unsettling way!!

So you didnt take a look at it on landing with a heavy load then?........;-), there was a nice Anson 19 (?) at Cosford that was flown in and wheeled straight into the hanger so should have still been flyable as the wings hadnt been removed to road it in.

\unlike the TSR2 which wouldnt go under the railway bridge near the main gate so they had to literally saw one of the wingtips off and stick it back on during reassembly using lumps of Dexion...

regards, Terry