Ross Clarkson Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Hi, I've been setting up my Yak 54 control throws/rates today and i have noticed that the manual gives different recommendations for up and down rates for Ailerons and Elevator!!What i mean is, on low rates the recommended movement of the Aileron up is higher than it is of the down movement, same for the high rates!Also, its the same for the Elevator throws! Why, and how do i do this?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 hello ross---i'm not 100% certain what you mean...but there are high rates...lot's of movement's on the control surfaces.....makes the model ultra quick in responding...and can be uncomfortable for some if you have too much movement........so you have high rate(a lot of movement)......low rate..half as much...more sedate and nicer to fly.... the other what you are describing (i think) is aileron differential...more up than down.....makes for a better roll..... me..i would have high and low rate to start with and take it from there---see what it feels like on both settings and adjust it to your taste....the roll's the same...high and low and adjust that as well... hope that's helpfull for you... ken anderson ne..1.Edited By ken anderson. on 08/12/2010 19:21:49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Clarkson Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 Yes Ken, i know what you mean and this is how i have been doing it from the start, but i think the Yak 54 might be a bit different than my other planes. As you say, a better roll which is what it is designed to do! I am used to setting up low and high rates, because aileron up and down has always been the same value on my previous planes, however the values up and down differ with the Yak. Let me try and explain better. Yes, there are recommended set-ups for low rate (First flying/standard settings) and high rates (Aerobatic/3D flying) in the manual. This is quite clear in the manual but, take the low rate settings for e.g. Aileron up is 19mm and down is 14mm.Elevator up is also bigger than elevator down but i can't remember the exact numbers! High rates:Aileron up is 25mm and down is 19mm or thereabouts. (Cant remember specifically at at work now) I have set them up at the minute so both aileron and elevator travel the same distance both upwards and downwards for both the relevant low and high rates, they just travel further on high rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken anderson. Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 ross--unless you're going in for competion's -i wouldn't worry too much about having the setting's exactly the way they tell you--it's like the recommended c of g's...the're normally on the safe side(nose heavy ) also...set it up and fly it and adjust to what you feel happy with......... ken anderson ne..1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Clarkson Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 Ken, i am happy with what i have set-up and will fly it like that to start off with.I was more intrigued as to why the aileron and elevators should have different amounts of travel upwards and downwards!!! I was always under the impression they should move equal amounts up and down!I was just wondering if it is a mistake with the manual?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 If you have something like a Piper Cub ,I can assure you that differential is essential on ailerons .On a low /mid winger it's a matter of personal choice to get a clean roll if you want that . As has been explained before,the down aileron produces drag on that wing which can make the A.C even turn in the wrong direction that can only be compensated for with the rudder .Not much fun I can tell you .Don't ask me how I learnt!Edited By Myron Beaumont on 08/12/2010 20:27:23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Clarkson Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 Ok, that makes sense Myron, but how do you make the control surface move more upwards than downwards??? Using the Tx, when i adjust the throw, it effects it both up and down!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Ross I used to do it by either altering the swept angle of the servo arm plus horns that weren't on the hinge line of a control surface join .I found that easier than using my Tx's However,if you plug in your ailerons to channels 1 & 6 (Futaba in my case) you can programme the travels electronically .The manual explains it all .It took 'er indoors to do it for me 'cos I'm a dumb head when it's not mechanical Myron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Clarkson Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 Ahhhhhhh, it has clicked!!!!I am using a y lead at the mo so that is what is stopping me doing it!!! If i plug the ailerons into different channels, then it will be possible to adjust each one separately up and down!!! I know how to do it on the Tx, i just couldn't figure out why it wasn't doing it.I think i am going to leave them as they are for the first few flights though. I feel a bit silly now!! Cheers guys, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myron Beaumont Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Ross Proper job ! Actually . with a Yak I wouldn't have thought that you need much or any at all differential .I havn't any on my Extra .In fact I do use a "Y" lead . Myron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Aileron differential is most commonly needed on Bipes and some high wingers. As Myron said its to allow for the extra drag caused by the down going aileron as opposed to the up going up. Its not so much that this will actually turn the plane the "wrong" way. What usually happens is that the plane turns - but sticks its nose out of the turn! This is known as "adverse yaw". In a standard turn its just inconvienent and those used to flying scale bipes actually consider the skillfull application of the necessary co-ordinated rudder to bring the nose into the turn actually part of the fun of flying them and eschew the mixing solution! But in a precision aerobatic model it would be a pain - making rolls very "barrelly" as the nose points off-centre all the time the ailerons are deployed! In a good aerobatic model all the controls should be decoupled - that is they need to act independently. When you have this problem that's not the case - as ailerons don't produce pure roll, they produce roll coupled with yaw. I've not come across this being a major issue on Yaks etc. But personally I don't have a lot of experience with this aprticular style of model. But as control surfaces increasingly approach "barn door" proportions on these models I guess these effects are starting to rear their head. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Todd Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Differential on ailerons simply as stated above cleans up the roll response and prevents unwanted barrelling. Pretty standard practice in F3A some years ago when I was more actively flying in that scene. Not so sure why we would see the same in elevator though although might be associated with simply harmonising control sensitivity pending incidences or datums of flying surfaces. Lindsay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Clarkson Posted December 9, 2010 Author Share Posted December 9, 2010 Ok, cheers guys.So, should i just leave them as they are (Same distances up and down) and see how i get on?This is my first aerobatic model!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cotsford Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Same thing on my Wolfgang Matt Joker, IIRC more down than up, left than right rudder, + differential aileron to balance the control effect relative to the stick movement. I can't say that I can fly accurately enough to really appreciate the difference, but it's easy enough to set up on most medium and high end computer radios if they allow flaperons or dif aileron. Adjust the throw with the stick biased one way or the other (eg adjust the down % while holding in down), at least that's how it is on an FF8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Smalley Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 you will require a bit on the Yak Ross otherwise your rolls just look a tad untidy as for the elevator i have left mine the same both ways nearly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Grigg Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Im getting a bit nervous Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Clarkson Posted December 9, 2010 Author Share Posted December 9, 2010 Post deleted as i have started another thread in Spektrum.Edited By Ross Clarkson on 09/12/2010 21:25:05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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