Piper Twin Apache PA23 -150 74"

[Wolfie]

Looking good Danny,

 

I'm sure that once you get this laser cut that you will probably overtake my build.

Not wishing to stir things but what's an A123? I assume it's some kind of cell, will have to get googling...

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Hi Wolfie - "what's an A123?" blimey don't get us started 

 

Have a search in this forum's search box. There's a number of threads including this one of mine.

 

Basically they are a rechargeable cell which is a bit bulkier and heavier than a LiPo but they have numerous advantages. Such as intrinsic safety, the chemistry means they don't catch fire if you abuse them. They can be charged in 15 minutes. They will give a good 60A or more current if required. Unfortunately only available in 2300 and 1100 mAh sizes though. I have flattened them to zero and had them bounce back as good as new.

 

You can probably tell I'm a bit of a fan. They seem particularly useful in 40 sized planes, but as you can see Danny tends to push things a bit further, and very successfully too.  

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Posted by Ian Deary on 23/12/2010 23:10:34:

Ah it just wouldn't be a Danny build without the obligatory A123 / LiPo debate...  

Shall we put the cat amongst the Pidgeons? How about Lithium Titanate Danny?

Seriously, has anyone ever heard of these? Wikipedia has! Some say they will power the next generation of electric cars. Unfortunately West Wales lost my interest when they start talking about connecting them together with oxygen free copper..

 

Sorry, getting off thread now. The drawings are plenty big enough Danny and look stunning. Well done. 

 

 

[Tim Mackey]

Yeh, well-old technology nowadays those things Chris - 5C chargeable Lipo mate - thats the way to go.

We must get a big spoon smily

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Yep Lipos finally have come on and caught up. I'm still not convinced about safety and how long they last. So if you don't mind I'll still keep using the same A123's as long as they keep going. And keep going they do

 

PS I do actually have 4 of the Tipples now, but only for tiddly little models. 

Edited By Chris Bott on 24/12/2010 08:59:04

[Danny Fenton]

lol you can trust a lipo v A123 discussion to stir things up a bit

 

We could do with more smileys tis true

 

Hi Wolfie, I would love to get it lasered, even if it is just to see how it comes out. Can you confirm that the laser cutters like cut lines in black and labels in red? And what format file do you send? DXF??

 

Cheers

Danny

[Wolfie]

Obviously put my foot in it there, sorry....

 

I've never done any laser cut work myself but I've heard that .dxf or .dwg files are quite common. Depends on the machine/software of the company you use.

[Danny Fenton]

Okay great Wolfie, thanks for that.

 

No problem with the A123, it has been the source of some friendly banter for a few years now

 

I did correspond with a cutter in Cornwall a year or so ago about cutting a plan I did some work on for the Klemm35. I think it was Greenair?? anyway they were very helpful. Maybe i should pick that exercise up again and get something cut.

 

Cheers

Danny

Edited By Danny Fenton on 24/12/2010 11:33:58

[Danny Fenton]

Just found the emails sent to Mike Black at Greenair back in early 2009. He was extremely helpful but couldn't quote until I sent him a cut file, and that never happened because the Klemm was just too small and my enthusiasm for the project dwindeld. I will send the Apache file to him and we will see what the price is likely to be for a partial kit.

 

Mike recomended sending him a DXF and confirmed that the laser will not cope with Splines

 

Got to finish a few models first I think though

 

Cheers

Danny

[Tim Hooper]

Posted by Danny Fenton on 24/12/2010 13:09:15:

 

Got to finish a few models first I think though

 

Cheers

Danny

 Prioritise, man, prioritise!

 

tim

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Tim, I know I need to prioritise, but on what

 

The only thing I seem to prioritise on is starting something else before I finish the last project

 

Cheers

Danny

[Tim Hooper]

I bet you're one of those multi-tasking kind of men, aren't you?  Just not natural, if you ask me.......

 

tim  (not even single-task;  semi-task at best........)

[Tim Hooper]

I bet you're one of those multi-tasking kind of men, aren't you?  Just not natural, if you ask me.......

 

tim  (not even single-task;  semi-task at best........)

[Danny Fenton]

Not much done, but have found the wing seat is all wrong and needs to move up a quarter of an inch. This will throw all the formers out so they will need redrawing.

I wonder if it is easier to order cut parts and do the work on the bench? Probably not  errors on the drawing are cheap to correct, just cost time

 

Anyway plodding on, have got the EFlite retracts and battery box slotted in

 

Cheers

Danny

[Ton van Munsteren]

Danny ,

 

Do you know where it went wrong on the wing seat and is it so much work to correct it.

 

Its better to do it now than let some parts cut that will not fit.

 

 

Ton

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Ton, I am pretty new to this cadding lark and I think I made an assumption on where the wing sat in relation to the fuselage outer skin based solely on the side view and photos. It doesn't show me the wing position relative to the fus outer skin so I approximated. I guessed wrong. I can correct it, a bit of work but has to be done

 

If its worth doing its worthing doing right, well as right as i can do anyway....

 

I was never happy with the wingseat as it needs to be an inch thick to accomodate the curve of the fus. Will adopt your method (from your Fiat G50) and have an internal wing seat.

 

The more of this I do the more in awe of you guys that CAN do this, and make it look easy. I really take my hat off to you.

 

Cheers

Danny

[Ton van Munsteren]

Danny,

 

I though that this would have been the problem, to be honest you have selected a difficult plane to start with specialy for 2D.

 

If I can help you with the wing seat let me know I can place it in 3D and make it like the seat on my Gloster design.

 

Ton

[Ton van Munsteren]

Danny,

 

 

Or do it like on my P51 go for the top as the seat from sheet and make the lower part from a fill block of balsa.

 

 

Ton

Edited By Ton van Munsteren on 30/12/2010 14:17:21

[Danny Fenton]

Thanks Ton, those that know me will probably tell you that I never do the things I should do, but enjoy a challenge and something to stretch me a bit, certainly never the easy way.

 

I thought that if you are going to design a model you may as well do the one you want, even if the reference drawings are a bit thin on the ground and it may be a bit awkward.

 

How difficult is it to take my 2D and do an overall 3D for a general construction view? Would it involve a lot of work?

 

Cheers

Danny

[Ton van Munsteren]

Danny,

 

Always good to go for the challenge there is so much to learn and to have fun with, there are no problems only challenges.

 

Its always difficult to say how much work it is it all depends on what to start with.

 

If the 3view is in basic clean lines and the formers are correct in hight and width than it will only take a few ours.

 

(Not to take over your thread just to show you how it work) 

I have been playing around with Miles M33 Monitor and here are some pics I have made from the 3D to show you how its done.

Most of the work go's in to cleaning up the 3View and make from the basic 3 poor formers a good set of formers wich are connected to the top , bottom and fuse width line.

From there you can make the first test surface, takeout some more crossections from that surface, correct them in shape and make a new surface until your happy with the shape.

 

Here some pics that hopefully give a clear view of how it works.

 

 

The basic lines needed to have the fuse good to shape.

 

 

The basic lines of the nacelle.

 

 

 

 Ton

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Ton, i think I may just be missing how to place things into that thrird plane. The bits you talk about as far as cleaning up the three views and making the bulkheads I have managed. I can also do the wings without too much grief. I may have a google and see if Turbocad will allow me to place things in x,y and z it is certainly a 3d package. its just my ability that holds me back.

How do you apply a skin to the 3D? is it an automatic function of the package?

 

Sorry if I am asking too many questions......

 

Cheers

Danny

[Ton van Munsteren]

Danny,

 

I us Rhino3d 3.0  and in this program and I gess with most of the programs there are several options to make a surface.

 

The program makes the surface over the lines you select and there should be no opening between the lines the web as a matter of speaking must be closed.

 

The program does the calculation for the surface over the lines but can not think for it selve the lines must be correct or it will not function or gives a soort of line explosion.

 

There are easy surfaces like the ones you click the 4 lines and you have a sheet or click 4 point and you have a sheet or click a cloced line in the shape of a star or what ever.

 

Take a look at the following link where you can download Rhino3d 4.0 to have a try and you can even save 25 times, after that you can play but not save only after buying.

http://download.rhino3d.com/rhino/4.0/evaluation/download/

Its good fun to have a go but be warned it can be addictive.

 

 

And don't say sorry just ask what you would like to know thats where the forum is for and if I can help its good fun for me aswell.

 

Ton

 

 

 

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Ton, I have visited the link you have sent thankyou. However can you tell me the relevance of the different versions, which would be the one to cover my needs. I am not saying I will buy it but it would be silly to get into a package without first knowing what it will cost should I want to keep using it.

 

As I already have Turbocad Pro 15 (which is 3D) I should really explore as to whether this is sufficient. rather than upset the settings I already have configured (probably irreperably) i will put TurboCad onto a spare PC and try the 3D functions on that system.

 

Thanks for all your help, it is really great that you are prepared to take the time to show us how its done.

 

Cheers

Danny

[Ton van Munsteren]

Hi Danny,

 

The only differance for me is that it is a newer version , don't know the differance between the two.

 

The older version works good enough for me and I will stay with that.

 

Did not know that the Turbocad Pro 15 is 3D and have not used this program so sorry can not help you on that.

 

Did have a look on the Turbocad site there is forum overthere and have seen some really nice samples of some renders in the 2010 competition.

 

Glad to be of help looking forward to some 3D pics and a great Piper Apache model build.

 

Ton

 

 

[Danny Fenton]

Well I must confess that I am struggling with the wing seat. I have decided to make the seat such that it will need a little tweeking during the build. the problem is the seat is really wide and not a straight laser cut as the wing dihedral comes into play.

 

I am perhaps trying to fix EVERYTHING on the drawing board which may be wrong?

 

Anyway a friend and fellow forumite has come to my rescue and kindly took the nose section (which I was concerned about) and checked that the curves were right. As you can see they are not correct.

 

Ian being a very clever chap, then massaged a bulkhead and produced this.

 

I really must learn how to do this 3d stuff..............

 

Anyway I am hoping that the bribery of a packet of choccy digestives might persuade Ian to check my rear sections, but I know he is a busy chap

 

Thank you Ian.

 

Cheers

Danny