Aslan Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 It might be worth your while downloading the manual(if possible)for an Arising Star.I think this used wooden pushrods similar to the ones you describe.It might help you to get a rough idea of how things, in general, are put together on a high wing trainer.I think it would be better for you to buy one Shaun.It would get you flying sooner and will save you loads of grief.What you have sounds really dodgy to me for a beginner.How much have you put together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 I have not put much together. I been trying to gather information before I start. Last night I cropped off about 7mm from the end of fuselage so the horizontal tail would fit properly and the elevator could move. I have trimmed up the tail fin so this fits correctly..have not poxyed it yet. Trying to find a way of gluing on the horizontal plane so that it is square and in-alighment...fairly tricky as all the edges are curved, its difficult to get an accurate measurement. I still need servos and radio gear. Im on a very tight budget so I dont want to give up on it just yet. Its almost a bit of a challenge now. An experienced modeller would probably knock it up in an evening. I suppose a decent ARTF would just slot together easily so I assume this is closer to real modelling as I have got to cut and chop a bit. I try post some pics tonight of various bits and pieces for your scrutiny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aslan Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I know what you're saying Shaun but most shops do a special deal at a reasonable price, that would include tranny,receiver, servos,battery pack, charger,model,even field box with all the bits. Put it in the bin mate.......please.......you're learning nothing with it.If you were building it from kit form,then yeah,go ahead with it....but.......it's closer to real trouble.Will pass final judgement when you post some pics.I hope I'm wrong Shaun,I really do.It just sounds like you're not having any fun with it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 I will post some pics on here later. The kits usually dont come with very good kit (the ones I have found anyway)...basic radio gear etc. See what you think later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 Have posted some pics in gallery titled "Olympian 40 Trainer". Let me know your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Ainsworth Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Hi Shaun, I agree with Aslan, before he said it actually, didnt like to say so then but it does sound lke the best place for it is the bin. If you went to a decent model shop they would more than likely build the package up with the radio etc, not a kit that includes the radio. I think you said that the Irvin 40 was new and you only paid £40 for the lot, you had a good deal there actually as the 40 is quite a pricey engine and a good un too, so stick to that as it will power a good range of trainers, you could always build the trainer that was a free plan in the RCME recently, at least you know it flies well and you have all the building instructions and flying notes as well, just an idea and would be fun and a good experience to do. As to r/c gear choice thats easy enough at your stage as the last thing you want is a very complicated set of r/c gear, just good sound gear that does all you want, such as a Futaba 6 set, that will last you for years and wont cost a fortune. Give it some thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 Thanks Dennis. I am going to plod on with it because I have nothing to loose. I need servos and radio gear but they can go in another model. And the engine is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 I cant afford to spend on another model at present...and I dont need to spend money on this except for the re-useable stuff. Even that Im trying to get cheap...looking for decent kit on Ebay going cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Ainsworth Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 O.K see your point but would be careful about getting r/c gear off ebay, as prices are at the moment of uncomplicated r/c gear it would be better and probably cheaper to get the r/c gear from a dealer, the stuff from ebay is bound to be used and could give problems and you wont get any help if it is a bit iffy in use, you could end up worse off. The new r/c gear is not going to be expensive, its up to you, just consider this, that you can get the latest Futaba 2.4gig gear for about £144 so the less complicated gear is going to be much less than that and brand new with guarantee etc. I would leave s/h r/c gear alone at this stage, you have enough on your plate at the moment. You need to have gear that you can fit and forget. A further thought and dont mean to insult you at all, but do you have enough experience at this point to know exactly what s/h gear would be right for you, only trying to help. Be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Nothing here that cant be impoved without too much effort. It is a shoddy kit by the looks of it, but frankly it is not alone, and I have seen much worseSecure the snakes better inside the fus, fill the gaps in the mating surfaces ( remove film first ) using a decent thick epoxy ( add microballons or similar at mix stage ) get that rudder snake lined up better as it exits the tail area, and remeber its only a trainer, not a scale warbird ! If most trainers are any indication, it will soon be looking a little worse for wear anyway, and as you say, you have it now, so just do the best with it you can.Keep asking Qs on here, have an experienced modeller check it out B4 its maiden, and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 I get your point. I just missed out on 4 SRM-102 servo's off of Ebay tonight...they went for £14. I realise that I could have got brand spanking new ones for £40 so I think you are right. I have been looking at the Sanwa RD6000...comes complete with Radio Gear and Servos' for around £140. I may have to save some pennies and tell the Missus a few fibs and get it. As far as the model is concerned, I take all your points but like I said, havent got anything to loose so Im going to give it a bash...even just for the experience (at least if I get a decent kit I will find it easy after this one) ! The problem with the wing not fitting correctly...Im thinking of cutting small slithers of polystyrene out of the cross section of wing until the middle sections are flush with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 And what are microballons Timbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 Does anyone have any other suggestions on the wing problem? The wing is polystyrene with a thin ply veneer. I think the only way to flatten the left hand wing until it is level with the other (see pic) is to remove slithers of polystyrene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Ainsworth Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Actualy Shaun they are called microballoons and they are usually made from glass or phenolic resin but they are so small they look like powder and you can mix them with epoxy or cyano etc and the idea is to give the adhesive more body for gap filling, they were originally used in furniture repairs etc to fill in wormholes etc. But you do have to give a thought as to what adhesive you are going to use for the mix as some adhesives will melt the job such as cyano on your foam wings so epoxy is right for them or get cyano specially for foam.Your wings seem to be what are called foam wings (funnily enough) and are a standard type of wing nowadays and what you describe is wrong with them is what you get with poorly made ones and you usually have to end up with a compromise as the main fault with them is that each wing blank are not identical in section. The best thing I can advise, dont know what the others might think, but if I were you I would cut them in half down the centre join and start again, band saw or fret saw job but watch it because if there is epoxy there the saw could run off, but when you have them parted it appears that the centre join has not been made to fit each other. Best way for this is to get a block of wood, deal or similar 2" x 1" x 6", and wrap round that some medium sand paper or Garnet paper, now get the wing blank centre where you have sawn it at the edge of your board and prop up firmly the wing tip to the correct dihedral height for one wing, make sure the wing blank is square to the edge of the board and just sand the join making sure that you keep the sanding block vertical, then do the other wing, the join should now be as good as you can get it without using a sanding jig. To join the two halves together, lay some plastic sheet or cling film on your building board, needs only to be where the centre join is and then get some masking tape and tape one wing blank down firmly, get something to prop up the other wing tip up to the height of the total of both the dihedral measurements, use 5 min epoxy and join the wing halves together, should now be better than it was. Before you actually glue together have a dry run to see if when the wings are at the right dihedral the join is neat in the middle, if not, just sand one again till its O.K. Hope this helps, easier to do than describe. Dont forget if you do have to go to this trouble the join in the middle will have to be reinforced with resin and glass tape. If you are paying £40 for 4 servos then you are at the wrong shop, good standard servos can cost less than that, try the Servo Shop, i.e. Steve Webb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Miller Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Before you start buying on eBay you really must check prices. I have often seen things go for far more that you can buy them new from a shop, For example, Als Hobbies sells sets of S3003 Futaba servos for £24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Ooops typo on the micro balloons Shaun - sorryIf your wing halves are already joined, and use a bracing joiner ( they usually do ) then I would leave it alone, and just fill the gap as described. The veneer is probably obechi, or even balsa rather than ply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Dennis: The wings are not actually joined yet...I just put them in place for the picture. Yes Timbo..there is a brace between the 2 sections to glue in. Both sides match up but its just that left half of wing that is higher than the right half. What is the correct meaning of dihedral? If Im thinking correctly, is this the angle of the wing halves??? I wasnt sure if the wings should be totally flat when joined or if there should be a slight upward angle on both halves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Peter: Thanks for the Servo advice. I will order a set of these. I assume any Futuba 4 ch or more receiver will accept the connectors from the servo's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Dihedral is indeed the angle of wing halves relative to each other as it were. The usual metod of joining wings which are meant to have dihedral ( and your trainer most certainly WILL be meant to have some ) is to hold the one wing half down flat on the board, offer up the other wing flush to the mating surface, and prop it up at the tip whilst the glue sets. Once set, it is also quite common practice to reinforce the joint area with a "bandage" of either fibreglass / or even medical bandage stippled with resin. ( remember to remove the covering in that area first, being careful not to cut through the skinning) This may well be the reason for your apparant "gap"and I am kicking myself for not realising this soonerPS yes pretty well any servo will work with any receiver with one or two rare exceptions, just watch the wiring colours / pin designations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Cheers Timbo. Is there a rule of thumb for the dihedral? The kit provides and 'iron on' strip to put all the way round the joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Not as far as I know......but I would suggest that if the face angles have been cut correctly, with one half flat, the other tip will be around 2-3 inches up from the surface.Dihedral helps to "self stabilise" the model, and will tend to bring the model back to straight and level after a turn. More advanced planes and aerobatic ships have NO dihedral, as it is generally desired that they "go where pointed " without a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Thank you for that. That is a very important piece of knowledge. I still think the wing problem is down to bad design. When the 2 halves are offered up there is a slight dihedral...but the left half of wing is still higher (fatter may be a better word) than the right side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 I have ordered the Futuba servos...for some reason I got it in to my head that the SRM-102s were the only thing for the job! Do servos generally come with rubber grommits to cut down the vibration or do I need to find something to do the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mackey Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Most full size ones do, but the smaller and minis often do not, as many peeps simply attach these with sticky pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Clarke Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Just when I think im making progress...the Irvine 40 doesnt fit on the nylon engine mount! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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