Hobby King Import Charges

[Phil 9]

Posted by Tony Smith 7 on 27/05/2011 10:53:46:

Posted by Pete B on 27/05/2011 09:30:22:

Not the model size, Phil - Ben means the customs declaration from HK. The percentage relates to the declared value HK print on the customs label, ie if you elect for them to declare 30% on $100 worth, they'll put $30 on the label. Customs are likely to be less interested in a lower value, so you take your chance on making a declaration other than the true 100% value.

Pete

That sounds completely illegal, although I'm not sure whether it would be the customer or Hobby King that's the perpetrator.

 

 

Not sure about the legal implications here either. But the postage label is an item value and not purchase price. The value of an item is always a subjective matter so there may be some ambiguity there.

ie value could mean insurance value, trade vale, retail price, a value of what you mat be able to sell the items for ect. Does anyone know the leagal deffinition of the packet value?

[Erfolg]

A false declaration is the responsibility of the importer. That is you, if you under declare.

 

Taking a moralistic stance on this issue is probably pointless, as with most things. as JC said "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

I've never been charged VAT or import duty for items from Hobbyking....but my orders are usually relatively small & delivered by Royal Mail. I would agree that when a courier (DHL or UPS being the worst in my experience) is involved they often charge. I used to get samples sent over from the USA for work & as part of the customs declaration they always put the "value" of the items on the paperwork....the courier then charged me VAT & import duty (based on what the paperwork said the goods were...there are hundreds of codes!!) plus an "admin fee" of around £12.

 

I used to put these charges on my expenses & my company would then claim the money I'd been charged back from HMRC.....!!! So imagine how many times that happens & how many people they need to administer it......now you know where your tax goes!!!

[Erfolg]

Steve

 

The point you make is the reason, a acquaintance I knew well, with a senior position within Customs told me," the objective is to recover taxes due economically, that is why unofficially we discourage personal imports, they take to much time, relative to what is gained, far better to deal with import agents, for containers of stuff". He went on to say that is why we try and push the charges to the individual as much as we can achieve, over and above what would reasonably be levied, it dissuades personal importing.

 

At that time they were seeking ways of preventing purchases from within the EU, where other the markets pricing made personal import attractive. Apparently the situation which occurs in other EU countries, where populations close to borders, did their shopping across a border to save money, was viewed with disquiet. The channel was seen as the savior and strong approach to individuals, was seen as the way forward. Apparently then a common market was favored at a commercial level, not at the individual level.

 

Now if I had been a close friend, I wonder what he really thought.

 

This was before Internet shopping etc. But I bet the preferred status remains the same.

[Derek Stevenson]

There seems to be a lot of talk about the need for the LMS. Over the years I've bough little from them. My first purchase was a model, engine & radio set - the radio gave a problem so I left it into the shop, when on holiday I asked my mature son (it was his) to see if it was ready for collection. When he went they gave it back to him as said there was nothing wrong with it. I then called with the shop when home and found he didn't want to pay the postage to return the item to the supplier! I paid & posted it to the main supplier. They phoned me in a few days informing me what the problem was (& stating it was unusable in its condition). It was repaired under warranty and I received it in a couple of days. The main supplier was excellent the LMS service chronic. He has since closed.

Years latter I decided to support another LMS and ordered a Cougar2000 - thankfully I didn't leave a deposit. Four months later, still no model and then it was closed down. I could have got it in a week mail order.

I think it would be great to have a large model shop where one could browse and waste a few hours dreaming but we only have small model stores. If you want to help them you first have to see how much it costs mail order and then ask them to price match. They appear to have to pay postage on small orders so they don't want to order until they get a quantity which means you wait much longer for delivery! I am aware that to trade in the UK is very difficult due to rents, rates and all the other systems the government can dream up to make it difficult for a small retailer.

Thankfully in the last 15 years I've had no problems with mail order either from the UK or abroad.

Perhaps this would have been better under a LMS thread of its own?

 

[JayCee]

Hi

There ia another HobbyKing thread running Here which is interesting!

My views stated there are :-

<I would like to emphasize my view on the LMS. Having been in a 'Self Employed Business' all my working life I know how important it is to have local customer support, as I said earlier I use mine regularly...once they're gone they're gone! If I want a particular item I research it on the web and ask my LHS if they will price match, if they can they do, at least that way they get the chance of making the sale.>

 

However keeping on thread, I have used HK for three years and have only had to pay VAT once, the VAT amount was small but as stated earlier 'Royal Mail' charge a fee for paying this charge in advance for you the total was about £20.00..

 

Anyway keep the LMS going! when you want that 'Push Rod' or that odd bit of Balsa you want it now not, in three weeks!

 

Don't lets put all our eggs in one basket and be totally reliant on cheap 'Off Shore' goodies

 

JC

[andy watson]

I don't know where you are doing your online shopping, but I never wait 3 weeks for something I need.

 

If I am organised and need a bit of stuff I might look at HK, but if I need something quickly then delivery within a couple of days is the norm from a UK based supplier. Obviously there are ethical issues re.HK, but UK mail order gives just as good service in many cases and still means the LHS has to raise it's game.

 

A quid postage on a pack of clevises might seem a hefty premium, but multiple puchases are often less, and my (very well stocked) LHS is a 20 minute drive away- petrol costs would be more than the postage.

[Erfolg]

I am at a loss with respect to ethical issues with respect to HK.

 

Particularly when the majority of purchases owe their origins from outside the EU, never mind the UK. The charges for importing any goods, varies, dependent on many factors, be it charges for import agents, container hire, customs dues, or for the individual P&P and any duties/taxes to be payed,

 

There is very good news with respect to delivery times, the last three purchases all small items have been less than 7 days, including the date of placing orders.

 

Additionally I have saved about £3 to 4 in fuel (after deducting P&P), treating insurance etc as a fixed cost of car ownership and therefore not included, I have reduced my Carbon Foot Print, and finally internet shopping has allowed me to do things which I prefer to do rather than spend half a day journeying to the LMS.

 

Very recently on my way to Ilkley, I decided to go a model shop Nr Haslingden. I wanted a prop strut, for a boat. Although selling some boats, they did not stock "prop struts". It is not unusual for MS to have limited stock and it is unreasonable to expect that they can. That is a major limitation of the LMS, when competing with the internet, particularly one as well stocked as HK.

 

The up sided of the MS and the Haslingden shop they had a good stock of Depron, ply and Balsa. Is this enough for a viable business is another matter

[andy watson]

Erfolg, was the shop you mention RC mods?

 

They do have a very strange set up regarding stock. I think they are planning on doing much more via the internet, but as you say there seems to be some very large holes in their range.

 

Having said that as they are about 2 minutes from my house I do often pop in, and try give them my business- but often leave empty handed. They seem to have their hearts in the right place though- so time will tell.

 

It is interesting to compare them with the very well established Blackburn models. I know their location gives them issues with opening on a Saturday, but my partner refuses to go into the shop to buy me birthday/christmas presents as the door is always bolted. She finds it an intimidating place to go. Also the opening hours are very short- even allowing for the Saturday issue. Opening at 11 and closing at 4:30 smacks of a hobby not a business to me (the aforementioned RC mods is open till 6 on a wednesday). Lucky teachers get so many holidays, or I could never go! However, if you do get in they are very well stocked and knowledgeable.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

Blackburn Models is my local....a great shop & well stocked with interesting & useful everyday items plus an excellent selection of wood. I can kind of agree with you about the opening hours but I know Keith also runs Balsamart as an internet based shop & obviously needs time to pick & pack the stuff for this business. He kind of has a foot in both camps......

 

The locked door policy is a shame but was brought about by some kids doing a runner with some stock...you have to ring for admittance......a sad refelction of the times we live in now I fear....but children often seem to be unwelcome in such establishments these days, unless accompanied by an adult....very sad.... I recall spending many a happy hour in Boydells Toyshop in Bolton looking at all their aeromodelling stuff & saving hard to afford a can of Nitrex 15 glow fuel.........

 

I know they don't open at weekends because of their proximity to Ewood park (Blackburn Rovers FC).....you simply can'y move around there when Rovers are at home....the whole place is best avoided (unless you like Blackburn Rovers of course!!)

[Erfolg]

Andy

 

Yes it was RC Mods, I was reluctant to name them on the grounds, that my comments appear to be negative and I do not believe that the shop should be viewed in that context. It probably is attuned to the developing world of new modellers, whilst attempting to cater for old fahts ( as in German, to travel), who build from scratch.

 

I have been twice to Blackburn Models (a bit out of my way). I was unaware of their opening hour policy. It was a locked fold up counter when I visited. Their stock of raw wood materials was impressive. With respect to things like kits, Steve Webbs models has a more comprehensive stock.

 

I am afraid when it comes to bits and peices, electric motors and Lipos, it has to be HK, by a country mile.

[David E]

Just thought people might find it useful to know that the low value exemption threshold on imports has been reduced from £18 to £15 as of 1st november.

 

In my limited experience of shipping via EMS (arrives via Parcel Farce) recently you are more likely to get stung on VAT (£20 order prior to exemption change) and you get hit with a filthy £13.50 handling fee, which is completely unjustifiable in my opinion. With normal air mail orders, I've not been hit on orders up to about £23, despite declaring the proper value. I suspect that will change now though with the new threshold.

 

I'm having trouble at the moment with a couple of parcels from HK which seem to have dissapeared to add insult to injury! Now they'll be the wrong side of the exemption cos of the delay if they do turn up too!

Edited By David E on 14/11/2011 12:44:27

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

I received a parcel the other day from the States - an special exhaust. Interestingly there was no request for duty despite the fact that I expected it as it was, I believe, over the limit. Just shows there is not necessarily consistancy on this.

 

BEB

[Erfolg]

I was looking for information on personal imports, as they are being changed as from the first of April. I think with respect to the Channel Isles.

 

It does seem that there are a few other caveats added to the regulations, dependent to the nature of the import, if a gift, the threshold is higher. I think it said that if the Duty is less than £9, it would normally be waived.

 

Perhaps BEB's exhaust (I hope I will not be admonished and censored) was sent as a present. I guess it was for the Uni?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

No, it was a purchase for me. The Uni doesn't normally have a need to purchase OS91FS after market exhausts!

 

BEB

[Codename-John]

I ordered a little indoor foamie 3d plane with servo`s, batt`s etc for a clubmate without internet the other day, about £60 worth from hobbykings international warehouse, he also had ordered another plane a delta pusher jet thing a few days before with another clubmate again about £60 worth, this time from the german warehouse, my order arrived as normal no import charges but the one from germany was stung for nearly £20 extra in duty and the royal fail charges, i thought all this common market malarky was supposed to be beneficial to us where we were free to trade within europe, no wonder the chinese economys doing so well

 

 

 

[David E]

Shouldn't have had to pay any VAT from germany. Not sure about import duty. Are you 100% sure it wasn't ordered from Hong Kong by mistake.

 

The handling charges are £8.something for Royal Snail and £13.50 for Parcel Farce.

[Codename-John]

defo from germany, and it came in a couple of days not the usual 2 weekish from hong kong. It must have been duty but he said it was around £20 extra including the £13.50 parcel farce charge plus having to drive the 30 mile round trip to go and collect it from the depo, where mine came to the doorstep no extra charge lol

[Erfolg]

I think you are correct David, although there has been a court case which found that duty is payable on a personal import (when not personally accompanied) from within the EU, where local duty has been paid for "Alcohol and Tobacco". These do attract full UK duty, not just the difference between local and UK tax.

 

Reading the Customs web site, with respect to this issue, I thought duty was payable, other forumites assured me that this was a misinterpretation of a poorly structured piece of text.

Edited By Erfolg on 14/11/2011 17:10:40

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

Posted by neil whilding on 14/11/2011 17:07:36:

defo from germany, and it came in a couple of days not the usual 2 weekish from hong kong. It must have been duty but he said it was around £20 extra including the £13.50 parcel farce charge plus having to drive the 30 mile round trip to go and collect it from the depo, where mine came to the doorstep no extra charge lol

Thats mad Ted! is he going to challenge it. I think he has been had

Edited By Seamus O'Leprosy on 14/11/2011 18:18:21

[Codename-John]

im not saying a word to him its worked out better for me, he wants me to order things for him from now on, he pays the postage and i can add my stuff in on the order and get it delivered free muhahahaha

 

 

[kc]

Surely the items were exported from Germany free of VAT and therefore UK VAT would be charged on import here? And Duty would be on the country of origin ( China etc in this case ) as it did not get made in Germany or EU. Note that VAT is charged on the whole value including carriage & duty ( at least it used to be )

[David E]

I don't reckon that's how it works. You pay VAT on the purchase, and not on import.

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/index_en.htm says:

"No frontier controls exist between Member States and therefore VAT on goods traded between EU Member States is not collected at the internal frontier between tax jurisdictions."

If the guy was really charged VAT on a parcel from Germany, I think he was robbed.

[Steve Hargreaves - Moderator]

My understanding is that if you import from within the EU then you will have paid the relevant VAT to the government of the country you imported it from hence no VAT to pay once it reaches the UK.

 

Thats why the items bought from the HK German warehouse are more expensive than those bought direct from China.....the Germans are not known for their laxity in collecting taxes after all....

 

As I understand it anything bought within the EU is just the same as if you had popped next door & bought it & shouldn't attract any VAT or import charges....this is one of the few advantages of being in the EU....

 

If I had to pay VAT & duty on an import from Germany I would definitely challenge it.....

[kc]

As far as Duty is concerned it was not an import from Gemany but from China etc. It's where the goods are made.

 

As for VAT were you charged German VAT? Probably not.