New plan build suggestions....

[Mark B]

I'm 17 and only build off plans- no foamies at all. I get the model mag too late to enter any competitions and so wanted to put some ideas out for the free plans range. Here's a few ideas:

 

Pou De Ciel- 50inch span.

 

Avro Avis- 30inch span or 50inch span with working flaperons- My Dad has built a 30 inch version from the original plans but fitted full house controls and flaperons instead of just rudder and elevator as per original-1970. Only 2 full size were built, with 2 different motors. None survived.

 

BG12-16- My Dad owns the full size and wants a model of it!!!-80 inch or quarter scale?

 

P-51B Mustang with retracts, flaps, and original canopy.- 50inch span. This is a rare sight, I have found one plan for a 70inch version and a similar kit, but this is too big and expensive for a kid like me earning less than minimum wage. Must be as close to scale as possible and be of balsa construction. The new worm gear retracts would suit it well. - New challenge for Tony??? P.S. i've never seen a model or full size of this aircraft, but i've found that there is only 2 flying examples left from the war. Rare Bird.

 

A new slope soarer would be nice- Racer maybe?

Balsa DLG. Simple but also competitive.- Hard challenge.

Tigre Moth- Racer or Biplane version.

Comet- Twin electric could be fun.

Beechcraft Staggerwing.

 

If anyone is interested in designing one of these and submitting it as a free plan, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make it as near to scale as possible, as there is nothing I hate more than a nice aircraft being 'de-scaled'. Do the aircraft some justice and recreate it correctly.

 

 

Just a thought- If anyone knows someone who has built and flown a Hairy Gnome successfully please tell me. I've just built and flown one but everyone i've talked to shy's away from it. Very funny! I've flown for 9 years and learnt on a glider and switched between modes (1, 2, and 3)and this Gnome still takes all my skill to fly it. Motor is an S.C.12 and miniature metal gear servos, everything else is as per plan. Radio is Futaba 6EX- our only 2.4 set and only computer set.

 

Edited By David Ashby - RCME Administrator on 28/03/2011 07:50:32

[Tim Hooper]

Hiya Mark!

 

You know the obvious solution to your wish list, don't you?

 

Yup, have a bash at it yourself!

 

Just done a Google on the Avro Avis and found this 3-view;

Looks to be in the same ilk as the Hawker Cygnet that I'm currently modelling, so how about having a go at it and letting us see how it goes?

 

tim

[Mark B]

Hi Mr Hooper,

 

My Dad and I share the models we build with each other. - I'm his test pilot!!!

These I already have from the above list:

 

Hairy Gnome biplane

Avro Avis 30inch

Flying Flea 33 inch

 

The P51B is the 1 I want most but interested in the others if plans are available cause I don't have the spare cash to fork out on a model that doesn't fly. E.G. if I design it!!!

 

Thanks for your reply.

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Thanks for the suggestions Mark, much appreciated and 'noted'. Don't hesitate to pop some piccies of your models and design here on the forum, we'd all be interested to see them.

 

I've just removed your email address from your first post - the private message system is safer.

[Tim Hooper]

Hi again Mark.

 

So you've already built the Avis? As David has already siad, it would be great to see some pics!

 

tim

[Jimbo565]

Mark.

Just a bit off topic.the guy who designed the Hairy Gnome taught me to fly,the late Brian Park.

 

Had a Taipan 15 rear exhaust in mine same as Brian and it went like stink.

 

Jim

[Mark B]

Hello.

 

My Gnome is a one speed aeroplane- full speed ahead!!! Throttle is fitted, but as far as i can tell there is not much use for it! I'm putting some photo's up now, but as of yet i haven't fitted a pilot, canopy, or cowl. It has become a bit of an obsession to find a Gnome pilot so that the aircraft is accurate to its name. My Gnome weighs 3 pound approx. and sports an Super Custom .12 it originally had an 8x6 prop but never left the ground as i fly off a grass strip (for full size tigre moths, staggerwings, dominie, chipmunks, dragonfly, and a replica pither). see link: http://www.croydonaircraft.com/

 

Anyway, i found i had overproped it and changed it to an 8x4. It flew well from the start but i had to get used to it quickly as i've been flying an Eagle 2 trainer that i was given by a friend (modified to taildragger with 360 degree tail wheel) - used to perfect 3 point landings and tow canterbury sailplanes eraser 40s that both my dad and i own. Unfortunately, my first landing of the Gnome wiped off the undercarriage, but it wasn't major and was flown again the next day.

 

This is a seperate topic but if you want to read my view on aeromodelling at the moment here it is.

 

One of the drawbacks of nowadays ARTF's and fewer people not building and flying from scratch seems to be people's lack of knowledge with how to trim aircraft properly, otherwise known as de-bugging. (Case 1) Modeller turns up to strip with EDF. (He only flies ARTF's) crashes it. The main worker in the club gets it out of the bin and fixes it in ten minutes at home. Gives it back to original owner to fly, guy wont touch it. Worker gets new EDF for $5 of glue, complete with servos motor and ESC.

 

All ARTF's i've seen have a steerable tailwheel or trike layout, and this in my opinion seems to have prevented some modellers from learning how to take off properly. ie straight!!! (Case 2)

A few times i have taken my trainer out to a club strip, and recieved comments such as:

Your tail wheel is broken!

Do you want an instructor? and

Is it new?

 

Usually i try to be as curtious as possible but sometimes it gets annoying and i hand over the transmitter as innocently as possible, and tell them to taxi out. 9 out of 10 don't get to the strip without groundlooping multiple times or nosing over.

 

Admittedly it does have a small elevator and rudder and a swivelling tailwheel, but i can do it, so why cant they?

My answer: Don't Know how to take-off. They don't hold up elevator when rolling and can't co-ordinate rudder and ailerons to achieve a straight take off.

 

Their answer: Doesn't track straight, wheels too far back, broken tailwheel, control throws too small.

 

My CG is correct and wheels 12-15 degrees ahead of CG as per full size design. The wheels are 3 1/2 inch mains for long grass, (originals 2 1/2) so no excuse for nosing over, and controls are mechanically maxed out.- no computor radio, just 40mhz futaba 4ch. I have taken off in 15 knots of cross wind and still stayed straight but very few i know can do this even with their own models.

 

I won't go into stereotyping model flyers by their aircraft, but this is one case that shows it definitely happens.

 

Sorry if you don't agree with my views, but i think it should be put out there.

 

My suggestion for a new article series in RCM&E is "How to fly as per full size practice"

I believe this would promote safer flying.

[kc]

Can I believe my eyes? You flew on 40 Mhz?????? Strictly against the rules in Britain and dangerous. Or did you mean 27 or 35Mhz?

 

40 Mhz is surface only = boats or cars.

Edited By kc on 29/03/2011 12:44:00

[Mark B]

Hi all,

 

Sorry for the confusion, i live and fly in New Zealand.- 40Mhz is legal here.

27Mhz is cars and boats for us, although most use 2.4 for everything.

 

To give you a rough idea of where I am, I live near Christchurch- The earthquake city.

 

Just a thought...

I'm honoured to have talked to the Ed. and Mr Hooper. Never thought that would happen!

Mr Hoopers observation aircraft is on my "to build" list as an unusual model.

 

I built a DB Double up (small biplane/monoplane) a while ago but never managed to make it fly. Has anyone built one?

[Mark B]

More pictures up now of the Avis and the Gnome.

I will try to get the construction details and photo's on as well.

[Jimbo565]

Mark,

I agree with you regarding Tim Hooper,I thought i built a tidy model until I saw Tim's models

Felt like burning my gear,

If your interested check out the BVRMC web site,this is the Blyth valley club here in Northumberland and under Yesteryear you will see a picture of the late Brian Park,the designer of the Gnome,the lovely lady standing next to him is my other half

 

These pic were of a time long ago

 

Jim

[Mark B]

Thanks Mr Carss. Will do.

 

Have you still got your Hairy Gnome? I don't usually set up models with the control throws stated and was glad i didn't as the Gnome seemed to be quite slow in the roll even with maxed out throws. Problem was solved by mixing rudder to cancel the adverse yaw, but the roll rate is still slow compared to other models i have flown. The stated 5mm throws each way on elevators would have prevented me from taking off as i have never been able to fly off a tarmac strip. The main strip i fly off is a full size airfield (see above link) and the others are on farm paddocks and so are pretty rough. Soo.... My elevator throw is 20mm each way and rudder is also maxed out. I'm quite young and have no real job and so i have only had cheap sets with no exponential or dual rates. As i was brought up flying this way, i have no problem flying twitchy aircraft.

 

Cheers

MB.

[Peter Miller]

Hi Mark.

 

Just a few words on designing. It really isn't that hard. You worry about the model not flying. Well, yes, we get the odd one or two even now.

 

The best idea is to start off with a proven layout. In other words if the angles of the wing and tail are correct and the balance point in the right place it should fly. Dare I say it, copy the layout from a proven design and but your own shapes round it. Just for example, take the average trainer. Draw the wing and tail in the side view and the engine position. Then you can draw any shape round that, a Cessna or Auster for example

 

Keep it light is the most important thing. Low wing loadings are much safer and easier to fly.

 

Choose something really simple as your first design just to get the idea of how to get everything together.

 

You might find  a book from Traplet Publications on design helpful as it really takes you through every stage of designing (No, I don't get royalties!) It is Designing Model Aircraft.

 

The other thing to think about is this. Successful designs can be sold to magazines and that can finance another model or two.

 

Just a thought on the P-51B. You can get  plans reduced or enlarged at print and copy shops these days so that big plan could be reduced to the size you want

Edited By Peter Miller on 04/04/2011 08:31:07

Edited By Peter Miller on 04/04/2011 08:33:46

[Jimbo565]

Mark,

My Gnome went the journey about thee years ago when I had a loft clear out,I must have been all of 35 yrs. old.

Brian had a lot of problems with it ,he could not get the tailplane incidence right.If he got it to spin it would not recover and went home in a bin bag a few times.

I could not fly mine it was so hairy hence the name,Only the club expert and Brian could get them off the deck.

 

This is my Sierra Sportster,A similar model to the Gnome and it flies a treat.

Jim

 

 

[BalsaBasher]

That's a nice field you are flying from Mark

[Mark B]

Internet problems preventing me from posting a reply.

 

Hope this one works!

 

i'll update when reliable internet is available.

 

Mark

[TonyS]

Quote by Mark B:

 

"This is a seperate topic but if you want to read my view on aeromodelling at the moment here it is.

 

One of the drawbacks of nowadays ARTF's and fewer people not building and flying from scratch seems to be people's lack of knowledge with how to trim aircraft properly, otherwise known as de-bugging. (Case 1) Modeller turns up to strip with EDF. (He only flies ARTF's) crashes it. The main worker in the club gets it out of the bin and fixes it in ten minutes at home. Gives it back to original owner to fly, guy wont touch it. Worker gets new EDF for $5 of glue, complete with servos motor and ESC.

 

I have taken off in 15 knots of cross wind and still stayed straight but very few i know can do this even with their own models.

 

I won't go into stereotyping model flyers by their aircraft, but this is one case that shows it definitely happens.Sorry if you don't agree with my views, but i think it should be put out there."

 

Hi Mark,

Not sure what you mean by 'I think it should be put out there'....why?

 

I'm sure that you're a very skilled model pilot and I've met many similar (they aren't all as quick to tell everyone mind you). The only point I'd raise with you is this.

 

I started model flying around 2 years ago, the only previous experience being that I built and crashed a plane when I was a teenager many (many) years ago and my dad helped me build a control line model that was equally unsuccessful. You have to start somewhere however. Although I'm delighted to watch really excellent pilots fly, it irritates me to hear criticism of those who are still learning or who aren't so good. Encourage practice and safe flying and point real beginners in the direction of safe foamies that are hard to break and that will give the pilot lots of stick time.

 

I love to build planes as much as I like to fly but sadly work prevents me from putting in so many hours that I have a working fleet of self-builds, so I have supplemented my flying by buying ARTF's. I make no apology for that and it doesn't make me a lesser person for it.

 

I probably couldn't take off in a 15 knot crosswind in fact I've been grounded all weekend due to high winds

I know it's just an opinion but surely we should take pleasure in watching everyone have fun be it the ARTF flyer or the hugely skilled builders/flyers of large scale exotica.

 

Let's not be too elitist about the whole thing

Tony

 

 

[Peter Miller]

Tony, Don't be too hard on him. He is young and the young always think that they know it all.

 

Like you, I doubt if I could take off in a fifteen mile an hour cross wind, but then, I will never know because I am not stupid enough to try it.

 

One day Mark will try it, full of confidence and that is when the disaster happens. Then all the people that he has been sneering at will have a good laugh.

Edited By Peter Miller on 02/05/2011 18:40:04

[TonyS]

Hopefully not too hard Peter - just wanting to help him see things from a different perspective..

...back to repairing my foamies...

T

[Peter Miller]

Not too hard but you were right, he needed pulling up a bit

[Mark B]

Real internet.... Horray!!!

 

I do agree that ARTF's can be good for people who don't have time to build complex models, but that shouldn't mean they can't build anything. Plenty of models can be built quickly from a plan and still fly as well as ARTF's. My point being that some people complain about the quality of the product as well as the price. Shorely if you want a quality plane that will last, look good, and fly well, and possibly cheaper, you could build your own? A friend of mine buys foam ARTF's and after a few flights they have paint falling off and dings everywhere from hangar rash. He is a much better pilot than I am, and looks after his models but the low durability of the ARTF's he buys just dont stand up to the job they are designed to do. However, he does fly off dairy paddocks (as do many in NZ) and this does admittedly have a bad effect on undercarriage mountings.

 

The point I was trying to make earlier with taking off in crosswinds was that if beginners are taught how to handle a model correctly on the ground as well as in the air, flying in higher winds is not a problem. This also means that a tailwheel will not have to be fixed or attached to the rudder, but can be free to rotate/swivel allowing the pilot tighter turning on the ground and lower servo loads.

 

I did not intend to critisize or sneer at anybody earlier. I apologise if it came across that way.

 

I often fly crosswind as some of the strips I fly off are rough and one-way surrounded by trees. Success is ultimately about model setup and practice, not daredevillry.

 

Thanks Mr T.S. for your comments. I may be young, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't correct me and share your opinions as well.

 

P.S.

I don't have a strip at the moment as my family recently moved to Christchurch.

Your turn to laugh

[Mark B]

I'll try to add a picture of the eagle 2 trainer I have modified for the dodgy strips I fly off and aerotowing.