Once there was a Webbit.......

[Steve W-O]

But there isn't any more!

 

Tried it this morning, and after a couple of circuits, the ground came up to it rather too fast

 

But a few things I did notice, in pitch it was very twitchy with the power on, but I couldn't get enough up elevator in on low rates to stop it going down steeply with low power.

 

The ailerons are very effective with very little deflection (I think the one with flaps will be much better balanced with the smaller ailerons)

 

I also think mine was too heavy to fly at all slowly, it certainly would have been better lighter.

 

The 3530 1100 with a 10X6 prop had loads of power, but not 3D.

 

The cause of it crashing was entirely a combination of pilot errors.

[David Davis]

Plenty of time to build another one Steve

 

Plan to maiden mine tomorrow.

[martyn sharp]

So sorry to hear that steve i followed your build it looked as if it was goin g to be a good one

 

Martyn

[Steve W-O]

Just looked at the power data, it used 260W on take off, and needed 180W to keep it level.

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

Morning Steve, that is bad news, sorry to hear that.

Probably more annoying that it was pilot error, I know that feeling!

 

How bad is the damage? Can she be put back together??

 

[Ian Jones]

Better luck next time Steve. Any idea why it was so sensative?

[Steve W-O]

Posted by Chris Bott on 16/04/2011 10:04:43:

Morning Steve, that is bad news, sorry to hear that.

Probably more annoying that it was pilot error, I know that feeling!

 

How bad is the damage? Can she be put back together??

 

 

 

 

It could be, the wing is undamaged, the fuselage from the leading edge forward needs rebuilding.

 

The ESC and motor are OK, the X mounting on the motor bent, and the prop broke, but the motor still runs true, shaft is OK.

 

Yes, I should have opened the throttle, gained some height and done some thinking on how I was going to get it down.

 

Mistake No. 1, change glasses before taking off, I had been giving all the links etc and the TX a final check , and took off with "reading" glasses on.

 

Mistake No 2, don't put all the control rates on one switch until you know the model flies right. If I had been able to just set the elevator to high rates, it would have been fine, but I usually set just one switch to do all the rates, which works well when changing rates on the elevator, rudder and ailerons has roughly the same effect.

 

The final end came when the sun caught the frame of my glasses, and I thought/saw/imagined one wing had dropped, so I corrected, but as I had just increased the rates, I over corrected and rolled into the ground.

 

The answer would have been up and throttle, clear the ground then sort it out.

 

Completely avoidable!!!

 

 

I found the ailerons very powerful, could have done with about half the movement I had.

[Steve W-O]

Posted by Ian Jones on 16/04/2011 10:25:50:
Better luck next time Steve. Any idea why it was so sensative?

 

 

I think the prop wash added to the effect of the elevator when power was on, and the normal effect of not enough motor down offset I don't know why I didn't have enough up, CoG was right on the spar.

 

It flew like the CoG was way too far forward.

 

No puzzle about the ailerons, but if I fly it again sometime, I will reduce the aileron to 50-60% of the spec, until it is trimmed.

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

That doesn't sound so bad then Steve, you'll soon have her back in the air.

[Alan Cantwell]

FRONT END OFF? a mere scratch, repaired worse on site, gerrit fixed,

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Yep, the big adavatage of building them is you know how they went together - so fixing 'em isn't such a problem.

 

Pity though Steve - still sound like you have taken some constructive lessons from the experience.

 

BEB

[Steve W-O]

Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 16/04/2011 15:07:40:

Yep, the big adavatage of building them is you know how they went together - so fixing 'em isn't such a problem.

 

Pity though Steve - still sound like you have taken some constructive lessons from the experience.

 

BEB

 

 

True, but time is the problem, I just looked at my albums, and I uploaded pictures of one of my own designs I am busy with (Miya) on the 1st and 2nd of Jan, and I haven't touched it since then! I want to finish that first.

 

Yes, lessons, the glasses issue has come up before, but has not been a problem, but today the wind was coming from the same direction as the sun, I was landing about 30deg off the wind to avoid coming straight out of the sun, but that was not enough to stop the reflection. (or having the wrong glasses on)

 

When I go on holiday, I will buy some more polo and T shirts with pockets (why don't they have pockets here????) and have some where to put the glasses

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

I have the glasses problem Plum, I wear varifocals and still hate flying in them, but I still get caught out and have to ask someone to take them off me. Shirt pockets might be a good idea.

[Steve W-O]

Posted by Chris Bott on 16/04/2011 17:12:18:
I have the glasses problem Plum, I wear varifocals and still hate flying in them, but I still get caught out and have to ask someone to take them off me. Shirt pockets might be a good idea.

 

 

I can't wear vari or bifocals, my normal method is just not to worry about not seeing clearly until I need to, which of course is too late once you have taken off flying..

 

 

The reason I ask about shirt pockets here, is that if you go into the average store, the goods come from China, in the Philippines, the goods come from..... China, so why there do you have a choice of pockets or no pockets? I bought a few last time, trouble is my wife has been fattening me up, so they are a bit tight now (entirely her fault )

 

Fact is, for people who wear glasses, a shirt pocket is a must, even if it is a T shirt!

[Big Bandit]

Hi Steve,

 

Sorry to hear about the Webbitt problem, and hope it's repairable. I know it's no consolation, but the upside is, It points the less experienced of us in the right direction.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Geoff Smith 1]

Posted by Big Bandit on 16/04/2011 22:31:35:

Hi Steve,

 

Sorry to hear about the Webbitt problem, and hope it's repairable. I know it's no consolation, but the upside is, It points the less experienced of us in the right direction.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

 

Bad luck Chris, you will overcome. BTW what motor are you using, is it the 2220/07?

What are you on about BB? It scares the bejabbers out of me. Cheers lads

Geoff

 

AKA Webbiteer No: 20

[Big Bandit]

Sorry Geoff,

 

Not with you on this one. I'm using a 1000 kv, 300 watt out runner from BRC, should be enough for a decent performance on a 9 x6 and 3S 2200 lipo. If not I can prop it up. Looks like it'll be ready for a maiden tomorrow, spent most of today helping a mate with fair size concrete lintel on his garage. Then I have the choice of a dinky Webbitt or Fun Cub build.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[Steven Webb (Steve Webb Models)]

Hi Steve,

 

Sorry to here of the demise of your WebBIT, I never like to hear about crashes, it can dampen enthusiasm. So to get your enthusiasm back to full on WebBITdom

 

http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=50096

 

Safelandings thread. He has a video of his first flights.

 

One thing I would say is different folk like WebBITs to do different things. Richard talks of wanting to increase the size of ailerons if he was to build another one. Now Rich's thread is worth following as if I know Rich ( which I do a little as I follow his youtube and we swap mails now and then, he also built me a Dag 1 Gyro some time back) he will be flying one with rotors instead of the wings soon. It's aways worth a look at his Youtube channel.

 

I watched Richs video of the WebBIT and his CoG was spot on (i'd guess) as the spin was tight. A WebBIT with a forward CoG will not spin that well, it will spiral dive.

 

If you rebuild, instead of changing the ailerons to a lower size - don't as I think you will have no control authority at low speeds in wind or cross wind, instead balance her slightly nose heavy. She may balloon a little at speed ( with a foward CoG0 but you will find she is like a trainer regard response. The other way to go is Expo/ Rates/Aileron Differential. A FW CoG is easier and gets similar results if you want to tame it.

 

If you do go the expo route - try about 20% expo, try and get 70% up aileron and 30% down. Expo on the elavator - about 40% - Rudder as much as you can get, no need for Expo, but 20% won't hurt.

 

Some ideas for you there.

 

Better luck next time

 

Steve

 

 

[Steve W-O]

Posted by Steven Webb (Steve Webb Models) on 16/04/2011 23:04:55:

Hi Steve,

 

Sorry to here of the demise of your WebBIT, I never like to hear about crashes, it can dampen enthusiasm. So to get your enthusiasm back to full on WebBITdom

 

http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=50096

 

Safelandings thread. He has a video of his first flights.

 

One thing I would say is different folk like WebBITs to do different things. Richard talks of wanting to increase the size of ailerons if he was to build another one. Now Rich's thread is worth following as if I know Rich ( which I do a little as I follow his youtube and we swap mails now and then, he also built me a Dag 1 Gyro some time back) he will be flying one with rotors instead of the wings soon. It's aways worth a look at his Youtube channel.

 

I watched Richs video of the WebBIT and his CoG was spot on (i'd guess) as the spin was tight. A WebBIT with a forward CoG will not spin that well, it will spiral dive.

 

If you rebuild, instead of changing the ailerons to a lower size - don't as I think you will have no control authority at low speeds in wind or cross wind, instead balance her slightly nose heavy. She may balloon a little at speed ( with a foward CoG0 but you will find she is like a trainer regard response. The other way to go is Expo/ Rates/Aileron Differential. A FW CoG is easier and gets similar results if you want to tame it.

 

If you do go the expo route - try about 20% expo, try and get 70% up aileron and 30% down. Expo on the elavator - about 40% - Rudder as much as you can get, no need for Expo, but 20% won't hurt.

 

Some ideas for you there.

 

Better luck next time

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I did not say I wanted to reduce the size of the ailerons, but the throw for the low rate setting. Even at low speed, I found them very powerful (maybe not in 3D terms).

 

Mine felt as if the nose was heavy (The CoG was right on the spar) as I could not get the nose up at low power or low speed. As the wing fits in the saddle, and the tail plane sits flat on the fuselage, I don't think any angles could be out.

 

Anyway, it flew, the cause of the crash was me, not the plane!