Just starting out

[flyeruk]

I am hoping to get a bit of help. I currently fly helis,mainly a thunder tiger raptor 90 se. Im at an okay stage of flying,lazy eights etc. I am self taught. I now really want to learn how to fly planes. My ultimate aim would be to fly large edf jets

I have been advised that a good plane to start with would be a v trainer by flyingwings.Do i get one with ailerons to start with?Also,would this be the right route to go down?

I will be learning alone and have done a lot og sim practice.

Any advise would be much appreciated.

IBy the way,i have a jr 3810 transmitter.

[Tim Mackey]

Yes, and yes.

[flyeruk]

Thanks Tim,i should have read your post. Sorry.

[flyeruk]

Okay,a little about me. I am very serious about my flying. I taught myself to fly helis. I started with a cheap chinese model,total disaster,crashed straight away and it never got off th ground again.I then joined my local heli club,purchased a second hand Hirobo shuttle and put many hours in. A few crashes but i learnt very much by my mistakes. I stayed in the club for a while and got a lot of help and advise but really dont like the club thing,so continued on my own. I then purchased a hirobo sceadu and t rex 450. I continued practicing on my own and then purchased a raptor 90se. I am now at the stage of flying lazy eights,nearly getting full figure 8s

I really enjoy flying the helis and will continue to practice as often as i can,although there never seems to be enough available time what with work etc.

I have had the desire to fly planes for sometime now,so im about to take the plunge into model aircraft.. I did,sometime ago, have a easy pigeon ,but that came to a sticky end very quickly.

I have no ellusions that learning to fly planes will be easy but i feel i have the dedication to learn this new disipline

I would like to eventually fly large edfs but i know it will take a lot of practice.

As i said earlier,i am not a club person so am going to go it alone. I know this isnt the best way but thats what i intend to do.

Im going to get the v trainer then see how it goes from there.

I am lucky in that i have access to a very large flying field,completely private and covering around 15 acres.

One question, assuming i get on okay with the v trainer, what would be my best and quickest root to flying large edfs? Looking towards something like the bae hawk 90.

Any help would be really appreciated.

 

 

 

[Chris Bott - Moderator]

flyeruk, apart from the fact that doing it on your own is the most difficult and usually expensive way, it sounds like you are doing everything else right.

 

I wouldn't worry about what to get next, just see how you get on with the v trainer. I have no experience of them so I'm not really sure what they would prepare you for.

Maybe next I would suggest something from Multiplex like the Mentor or Twinstar. Both known for being pretty forgiving while teaching you a lot.

 

I think you'll get on fine if you can fly a heli OK. Keep us informed how you are getting on

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Hi,

 

and welcome!

 

Fastest route eh? Well master the V trainer - at least to the point where you can fly the BMFA 'A' Cert schedule well and consistently. I hear what you say about not being club person but that doesn't mean you can't benefit from the BMFA method. Obviously you won't actually take the test - but you are clearly a level headed kind of person so you can be your own examiner! You'll know when you've mastered it.

 

Then move on to a low winger with a bit more Umph. Given you are looking at EDF eventually it would make sense to stick with electric power. Something like the Hangar 9 Pulse XT40 electric power would be good, but there is plenty of these "sports/advanced-trainer/basic-aerobats around to pick from. Fly the pants off it! Master basic classical aerobatics. Loops, rools, stall turns, bunts, reversals etc. The point is not to just to be able to do the moves but to be able to do them with precission and under total control. Loops should be exactly circular, rolls exactly axial, entry and exit at the same height etc. The point of learning basic aerobatics is that it massively improves your general flying and speeds up your reactions. Your setting up and trimming of the model has to be good, you develop a "feel" for the plane, you get used to seeing it and handling it in unusual attitudes and positions. In short, its like horse racing - it improves the breed!

 

Next up - or even overlapping the later period with the basic-aerobat - get yourself a cheapish small EDF. I would suggest either a Squall or a Habu. Given your interest in the Hawk the Habu would go down well - as it has a rather "Hawk-like" appearence. Avoid scale jets at first, these two models fly much better. The first thing to learn is to handle the speed and get used to the orientation problems - this is where your aerbatics practice will pay off.

 

Get this far and you can plan your own course towards bigger jets from there!

 

Best of luck, enjoy.

 

BEB

 

PS The whole thing would be much easier in a club! I know - but I just had to say it!

[flyeruk]

Thank you for the replies.Biggles,i think i will follow the route you suggest,sounds just what i was hoping for. My budget at the moment is around £700.00 which i can use to try and get me up to speed.

I know what you say about a club is right but when i was in the heli club,although i did get a lot of advice in the beginning,it just wasnt for me. Always been a bit of a loner when it comes to hobbies.

I will keep you all posted as to how i progress. Should be getting the v trainer next week.

Think i will go with the aileron trainer to start with if you think this would be the best bet.

[Tim Mackey]

Yes again

[Tim Mackey]

Incidentally, I see your using a rather old ( but still very good and perfectly capable ) 3810 Transmitter - if you are likely to get more models - and you are - then it may be worth considering a 2.4Ghz module for it, especially as you fly alone.

Who's to say that one day, another lone flyer doesnt turn up and fly "just around the corner" and is on the same frequency as you!

2.4 G technology eliminates this potential shoot down scenario, as well as having other benefits.

[Tim Mackey]

This is the sort o thing I mean, although different brands are also available such as Futaba and Spektrum etc, although at higher cost.

[flyeruk]

HiTim, i should have said that i already have a 2.4Ghz module fitted. I did have a DX 7 but didnt like the feel of it,it felt cheap compared to the 3810. I just like the build quality of the JR.I wouldnt risk flying my helis without it. My raptor,although now seen by many as out of date,stands me in close to £2,000 with all of the electronics i have fitted,every thing is very high end on it.

[flyeruk]

Just thought i would add the spec of my raptor 90se for anyone who might be interested.

Os91 Sx-H Ring C Spec
Full Metal Head Tt And Quik uk
Heavy Duty Clutch )
Heavy Duty Clutch Bell
Hardened Main Shaft
Sus Hardended Flybar Rod
Metal Elevator Lever Set
Metal Upgrade Block
Metal Lower Bearing Block
Metal Cooling Fan
Metal Tail Pitch Slider
Metal Clutch Brg Base
Carbon Tail Drive Shaft
Carbon Fibre Base Plate Frame Brace
Solid Alloy This Tailboom Brace And Fin Mounting Clamp Quik uk
Alloy Tail Grip Quik
Carbon Fibre Tail & Fin Quik
Carbon Main Blades Tt Carbon Tail Blades
Quik Header Tank
Muscle Pipe 6 90
Carbon Tail Servo Plate
Carbon Canopy
Futaba Gy611 Gyro + S9254
Align B6t 2in1 Voltage Regulator + 3600 Ma Li-Po
3x Ds620 Align Digital Servos
1x Spektrum Ds821 Servo
Spektrum Ar 9000 Receiver

ATV-1 Govenor

[Alan Cantwell]

flying on your own should still be covered by third party insurance, its not a legality, more of a neccesity, best of luck with what you do

[flyeruk]

Hi Alan,i have been a member of the bmfa for 3 years now.I do,as i said before,take my flying very seriously and am very safety orientated.I fly at a private flying site,at least 15 acres,and yes,i do have the full permission of the land owner. A friend of mine flys his paramotor from this site as well.

[Alan Cantwell]

thats great, keep us posted with your progress, watch it though, word will get around about the guy who fly on his own on 15 acres, many would kill for such a chance

[flyeruk]

lol,yes i know that,im very lucky where i live,Devon.The chap who owns the land has around 400 acres. Mainly grows crops but the area that i use is kept for some sheep.

He moves them from field to field so at least it keeps the grass down.I have been using the fields now for around three years and so far managed to keep them for myself.

I dont think the owner would allow any one else to use them for flying. I do have a friend who sometimes flys with me there but he only comes there when im flying.

 

[flyeruk]

Just wanted anyones advice and thoughts. Although i have stated that i would like to fly edfs i have seen some videos of the Sig Rascal110. Ive got to say that im very impressed.

The thought of being able to fly a large,docile plane like this really interests me. I think the sig is no longer available but have seen one second hand. What kind of skill level would be required to fly a plane like this?

 

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

The SIg Rascal wouldn't be a very difficult model to fly and has a number of plus features for the relatively inexperienced flyer. But I don't think it suitable for complete beginner to fixed wing flying - especially one on their own.

 

It has no dihedral, so no natural lateral stability. It also has rather pointed wingtips which I suspect could "bite" causing tip stall if you fail to keep the speed up. The tail moment is quite large so that elevator is probably quite "effective" - which is positive way of saying "sensitive"!

 

I'd say it would be a good second plane for someone like you - but unless you had someone on a buddy lead with you I wouldn't recommend it for starters.

 

BEB

[flyeruk]

Thanks biggles. I didnt mean for a first model but for when i have gained some experience

with a trainer. I was thinking of possably buying it for the future. I have this week spoken to a friend of mine who has been flying fixed wing for a good few years and he said he would be more than happy to buddy me some time,so im going to take him up on his offer.

I will be getting the v trainer next week so will be starting practicing very soon.

So,you think its not unreasonable for me to fly this with some experience?

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

No not at all unreasonable, as I say I think it would make a good second model to follow on from your basic trainer.

 

BEB

[flyeruk]

Quick update,ive been practicing on the sim all week,must have done 15 hours,and i have today ordered the v trainer with ailerons,should arrive middle of next week.Looking forward to getting started.

[flyeruk]

I still waiting for the v trainer,so hopefully will get it,or try to get it in the air next week.

I have been offered a Hangar 9 Pulse XT60 electric for £175. I know im no where near ready for this plane but thinking along the lines of what Biggles suggested,a xt 40.

Does this sound like a good idea? condition of the xt60 is very good,only been flown around a dozen times and i know the chap who owns it.

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Yeah, the XT60 is just the XT40's big broither. The Pulse flies really well - its an ideal second model and perfect for learning basic aerobatics on - it'll do almost anything but at the same time is very forgiving of errors

 

BEB

[flyeruk]

Thanks for all the help Biggles,one more question,what is your opinion of Hobbyking turnigy lipos,and what would you suggest,power wise for the xt60.urnigy

[Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator]

Now there you would better getting advice from one of the more experienced electric power guys. I dabble in smaller electric models, but other folks like Tim, Lecckyflier, Chris Bott, Tom Wright and Danny Fenton (to name just a few) know a lot more than me about that side of things - I'm a recidivist "oily hand" I'm afraid!

 

Hang it! I'll have a shot at it, just out of interest! First you need to look at the weight of the model. The Pulse XT60 weighs in at about 8lb. The electric experts say you need 100W per lb for sports performance - so we need at least that given we're going to want to learn aerobatics on this ship.

 

If we went for a 4s lipo, that would give us 14.8volts, so to get 800W we would need a current of about 800/14.8 = 54amps - that's quite high. If the battery was say 3000mAh that would give us a full throttle duration of about (3/54)x60 minutes, or about 3 mins 20secs. Obviously we would not be a full throttle all the time but even so flight duration is not likely to be great! Maybe 5-6 minutes or so.

 

If we went for a 6s lipo then we'd have 22.2volts, and the current would be 800/22.2 which is 36amps - which is more like it. Now if our battery was still 3000mAh we would get (3/36)x60 minutes at full throttle - that's 5mins. Which would probably amount to flight times in the order of 8-10 mins normal flying. Which is fine.

 

So, I'd say a 6s lipo with a 60Amp ESC and a motor capable of handling about 40amps would be dandy!

 

But don't spend any money until someone more experienced than me at electric set ups has checked those calculations out!

 

BEB

 

PS Reading through the posts - does this Pulse come with a motor et al? If not £175 is a bit pricey.

Edited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 29/05/2011 17:00:09