Tony Nijhuis 45" spitfire build (first for donkys years!)

[Danny Fenton]

Hi Mightypeesh, your Spit is looking excellent well done. With regards stick on decals, you may have a problem with them either hiding the detailing underneath, and even lifting at the edge of raised panels. I would always go for the extra work of masks and spraying the markings. But it obviously takes longer. I have been told that a little heat from a hairdryer will help the decals adapt to the underlying surface better, but never really found that to be the case. Rivets always seem to lift the decal eventually.

I have used Pyramid before and their work is excellent, and the material they use does shrink a little with the application of heat, so great for losing wrinkles when applying over a less than flat surface

 

Cheers

Danny

[mightypeesh]

Hi Danny. thanks for the tips. I was considering painting on the roundels etc, but thought I would give these a go.I am using this aircraft as a learning curve on techniques for building and finishing and have taken your comments on board. My weak point is my airbrushing, but will get there in time for the next plane. This one was intended to get my hand in again after many years away from the hobby.............I just cannot resist adding details though! I will however add some detail over the decals before weathering, and will let you know how it goes. Great work on your spit above by the way, Cheers Simon

[Terry Walters]

That's going to a cracker Simon - I do like your approach to detail - well done. I have used Pyramid too and have found them to have very quick (normally same day) despatch of decals including straight forward custom ones.

 

Keep it coming! Talk us through your airbrushing as that's something I haven't done before.

 

Terry

 

[mightypeesh]

Hi Gents. The supplied cockpit canopy has been bothering me, so I have finally given in and am doing something about it. I intended to just make a plaster copy of the existing one and re-approach the carving before vacuum forming a new one. I could have just cast it from the inside of the existing, but I wanted to add detail and carve it back a bit, i always did like making my life harder. It did not quite work out as I wanted, but I will post the process so you can see how I lifted the mold.

first I masked off the area that I was molding, and added some more detail using tape to raise the frame.

I am using Alginate for the mold. It is the stuff that dentists use to cast you a new set of teeth, It is made of seaweed, and you mix it about 1-1 by volume. I use it at work for life casting (I work in a university on a theater course) and it sets in minutes.

mix it and splodge it on.

when it sets trim it back

and add a case from plaster bandage and allow to set.

one mold. The alginate is quite fragile, and you need to get the plaster in it straight away, other wise it starts to dry out and shrink.. the bandaged case is to hold its shape as you cast it.

here it is without support.

and with plaster of paris in it. I have also blocked the ends of the mold with plaster bandage to make a trough to hold the plaster in - put some hand cream on the inside of the bandage otherwise the plaster will stick to it. (nothing on the alginate though) the clamps are just holding the edges of the alginate up to stop them flopping about.

Go and do a bit of shopping and when you come back you can de-mold and tidy up before your wife comes home and finds plaster all over the dining room!

Now I have it in plaster it shows all the blemishes from the original. the out line is good, but the front is the wrong shape. Ok I admit it....I am a control freak. The original canopy is fine, this plane was not designed as a scale model, but as a sport flyer, and for that the canopy does its job. I guess I just enjoy the build, and this is the only part that I have not had a hand in.....yet

Time for some research....

I found some great photo's on the web a few from the site below of a Canadian Seafire's cockpit. how lucky is that bloke?

http://www.thescale.info/news/publish/printer_Seafire-XV-cockpit-detail.shtml

.

[mightypeesh]

So now I have decided to go for it, and spent a bit of time working out and drawing up what I need. Rather than carve from a block of something, I have decided to use plasticard to make up the main facets of the cockpit as it means I can get the shapes right first and then use filler for the front and rear sections

all the shapes were worked out on paper first.

bits of blue foam as a base, stuck with foam safe cyano and kicker

I masked off and used a bit of acetate wrapped aroud the fuse to stop the filler sticking to it. The filler is just easy-sand car body filler. Mix it up and use the speader to fill up the sections. in stages. the rear section was bulked out first with scrap balsa befor filling.

when it has hardened, but not completely set remove from the fuse and take away all the masking and acetate.

ready for some sanding, and for work on the bubble.

I am much happier now!

Edited By mightypeesh on 19/02/2012 07:55:19

Edited By mightypeesh on 19/02/2012 08:15:30

[David Bess]

The seafire photos are fantastic ,good find , I thought the model was designed as a scale , I must have just taken it for granted that it was a scale set of plans .I think you are a closet perfectionist at heart I do admire your attention to detail and looking forward to see how your canopy progresses

[mightypeesh]

 

Hi. My wife reckons that I always make my life harder than It needs to be! I am using this as a practice for scale techniques and methods, but even I think I have gone a bit over the top on this. I have a Jamara BD-5 kit waiting under the bed as my next build, but I have read that it leaves a bit to be desired quality wise....

.

Still, I fancy a pusher .Can I resist fiddling with it, or just build it as intended? I must admit I do enjoy the fiddling.....

Not sure as to my next project after. Might have a go at my own design, maybe a fibre-glass fuse, about 60" span seems right. There is an Australian warbird called a Boomerang' which I fancy.

Ugly as sin, But I like it! I am learning Autocad at the mo in preperation, if it happens I will post here.

Anyway back to the canopy.

Bit of blue foam carved slightly undersized for the bubble. I then gave it a coat of foam-safe cyano to isolate the foam from the body filler. The two are not happy bed fellows, and the filler will melt the foam if not coated.

first layer of filler

Nearly ready to add some frame detail. More 'ish-scale' to my taste.

Cheers.

 

Edited By mightypeesh on 19/02/2012 17:54:27

Edited By mightypeesh on 19/02/2012 17:56:00

Edited By mightypeesh on 19/02/2012 18:19:48

[Danny Fenton]

nice one, I am bit of a laughing stock at my club, as I am incapable of building anything as intended. You can never have enough detail

Cheers

Danny

[mightypeesh]

Just a quick one gents, I get all these great comments on my blog, but when I click on the person who commented, ie Danny above, I can see his photo albums, but cannot see his blogs. Am I doing something wrong or is there a button that I am missing?

cheers Simon

[David Bess]

Your not wrong she is ugly looks like a spit tail and a bad P50 fuselage with albatross wings I would love to be able to use a CAD are they difficult? (probably a stupid question ) is autocad free or a lot of money ?

[mightypeesh]

Hi David. The Boomerang reminds me of some plastic model kits that were out in the 80's, not sure who made them but I remember a red baron type thing that was all oversize and distorted. Like I say, ugly..... On the autocad question, I am in a fortunate position of working in a University of arts, so I have things at work such as vacuum formers, resin rooms, banks of all singing, all dancing computers, laser cutters, 3D printers, and computer geeks! the latter I chat up so if I need to learn a new prog then I get to sit in on the students lessons. CAD is easy once it has clicked. Before then it's 'what the f@%$'. There are free CAD progs though. I think somebody mentioned one in a RC mag last month. not sure which one though. I know he said he was from Yorkshire and it was on the letters page. Anybody?

[Danny Fenton]

Simon, I don't think this forum has that ability. a shame really.

Cheers

Danny

[mightypeesh]

Thats a shame Danny because it would be good to find others posts from their names. can you do a member search?.

Ok. I got a chance to work on the new canopy a bit more, so some more pics. I will just put some subtext on the images.

After more filling and rubbing down I gave the buck a coat of Halfords Filler Primer, which is the odd colour, and is matt in finish. I then T-cut it back and polished the surface as to keep the vac-form clear it needs to be really smooth.

I then used more pastic card and strip to make up the frames. I used cyano with a fine tip to apply it accurately.

ready for some filler.

I 'guesstimated' the width of the frames, so definately 'Ish-scale'

not looking to sad, and a definate improvement on the original. A bit more fettling, then I will make a siicone mold of the canopy and cast it into solid resin.

She wanted to come outside for some fresh air. I hope to make the mold tomorrow andvac form on Monday.

Cheers chaps, Simon

[Danny Fenton]

great job Simon, it was one thing I toyed with doing on my 72" TN Spit http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=43843&p=1 but refrained, always wished I had, but as it happens it didn't matter.

I was reading your post and was thinking, noooooo the heat from vacforming will distort your frame, then you wrote that you would then mold another solid resin version. You were miles ahead of me, well done

CheersDanny

[mightypeesh]

Thanks for the link Danny. I will have a good delve into your build tomorrow. It has taken a good ten hours to get to this stage with the canopy, but I am sure that if I had just bitten the bullet in the first place I could have combined it with the fuse build and been a lot quicker. VERY enjoyable though!

Edited By mightypeesh on 25/02/2012 19:56:06

[mightypeesh]

Not going to dwell on the outcome of your Spit Danny, a wealth of info for me though and well worth a read. Might be making up a 'pre-flite' checklist though, just in case.

[mightypeesh]

Work getting in the way again, Finally made the mold and cast the buck for vac forming the canopy though.

I put masking tape on the fuse around the area that I wanted to build the wall, then fixed the wall with some cyano and tape to that. Make sure there are no holes for the silicone to escape!

fill with silicone.....and wait!

Ta Dah! I have added walls to each end to hold in the resin.

fill with casting resin and leave for a couple of hours.

Another TaDah! moment. I do enjoy casting. Now ready for a clean up for forming. I will cut each end on a band saw with a slight angle upwards to aid removal from the vac form.

Just a comparison with the original canopy shape.

And a nice shiney canopy. And it only took about 20 hours work! I will have a trim and paint later. Cheers, Simon

[Terry Walters]

Simon - that was a lesson and a half to most of us - brilliant.

Terry

[Fats Flyer]

Very nice.....please can you tell us your method and equipment of vac forming.

Thanks

Vince

[mightypeesh]

Glad it is useful to you. As regards to to my method of vac forming I am in the very fortunate position in having access to Vac forming machinery at work, so I am a very lucky boy. Saying that though, vac forming is quite a simple process, especially with small stuff like this and it would be fairly easy to make a basic system - a quick internet search should come up with examples of how to do it. If my circumstances at work ever changed I would certainly knock one up.

cheers, Simon

Edited By mightypeesh on 03/03/2012 09:58:08

[mightypeesh]

Got a bit of painting done today on the canopy. First I added a bit of detail - some foil to raise the front panel a bit, and some rivets by heating a rat tail file and melting dots into the plastic.

I then painted it silver to try out a technique in which you paint the final colour on and then rub it back a bit to show metal chips..... we shall see.

Sprayed over with humbrol acrylic

It rubbed off easier than I thought. Bit more scrap yard than weathering . Still, It looks good as an effect. I will save it for a more worn project. So a quick rub down and re-spray is in order.

Thats a bit more what I was after!

I then used ordinary tubes of water colours to add dirt and grime to the details by painting on and wiping most of it off again. I will go into more depth about how I weather when I get to the paint job. Oh, I also gave it a coat of satin varnish to set it all in place before I remove the masking.

Fred the Pilot is a happier bunny now.

Cheers, Simon

[Fats Flyer]

Simon,it does look realistic,you must have alot of patience for that sort of thing.I have a home made vac forming machine already,just thought you might have a different method,i do love to learn different techniques.What type of plastic sheet do you use ?.As you have already mentioned,the plastic isnt totally clear,it has a slight milky look to it .

vince

[Danny Fenton]

Really is brilliant Simon. Could I trouble you for a list of products you used, you mentioned a silcone molding solution, casting resin etc. I have some silicone stuff from Terranti that I have never got around to trying. This is definitely an area of my modelling I need to get more into. glass moulding.

This is a short video I cobbled together and it shows my primitive vacform table/box. Basically a box with holes, a hole in the side for the "Hoover" and a frame to securely hold the Styrene, in this case, or PETG for canopies. The trick seems to be to get the plastic hot enough that it sags a good couple of inches.

The plastic initially sags, then shrinks and taughtens then finally sags again. But it took over 5 mins under a hot grill.

Hope you don't mind me diving in Simon?

Cheers

Danny

[mightypeesh]

No problems at all Danny, always good to see how others do it - very neat former. When I get around to making mine it will look a bit like frankenstiens monster! I will post a full list of the stuff that I used shortly.

Hi Vince. This might be of interest to you, as it helps to get sharper forms.

When you vacuum form an object as the plastic sucks down over the buck it forms a seal around detail. What you need to do is get the vacuum to the detail. On this one I first drilled out the underside with a forstner drill bit, to make the hollw nearer to the surface.

then using a 1mm drill bit in a dremel drill through to the hollows in all the corners or detal.

The hollows mean that you can use a normal sized 1mm drill rather than a long one which will snap in milli-seconds. Now when you form it pulls into all of the detail.

I hope this makes sense to you chaps, as it really does make for a better end result.

Cheers, Simon

[Fats Flyer]

Nice one simon,i havent seen it done that way .Yes it certanly makes sense . I have made a spitfire canopy using the vac form method(for tony nijhuis 48 inch spitfire),but i used car body filler for the smooth surface and super glued thin strips of ply for the canopy framework.It came out well apart from the milky look because of the plastic i was using .Obviously,you have used a different type of sheeting.Can i ask what it is and where i can buy some.

Thanks

Vince