trev Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Hello all. Have a bit of a newbie question here. Looking for clarification as most clubs require a BMFA A Cert before allowing solo flight, have a question relevant to this: I know to fly solo you require a BMFA A Cert, i am clear about that. However, my interest at the moment lies in power gliding which throws up 2 problems: The average power glider weighs at well under 1000g and the minimum to take a A cert is 1000g, secondly - it doesnt have an undercarriage, which again the rules state that one is required. My current plane ( e scale phoenix ) weighs in at 675g and the next model i am looking at getting is around the 790g mark. Is there a seperate exam for powered gliders or does one still have to pass the standard A cert exam on a plane fitting the criteria, before being allowed to fly a PG solo ?? Confused of Grimsby would be most oblidged if you could point me in the right direction here. many thanks in advance and any advice much appreciated.cheerstrev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Hi Trev, well just to be clear on one point - the requirement that you must have an A cert to fly solo is a club requirement. It is not a BMFA requirement or a "law" of any sort. If you are a BMFA member with insurance then you are free to fly knowing you are insured - A cert or no A cert. Now many clubs - including my own - have a club rule that says "you cannot fly solo on their strip as a member of their club without having passed the A cert" - and as it happens, personally I think its a good rule. But it is only a club rule. I just wanted to make sure you understood the difference. I think you are in a bit of an unusual, and unfortunate, position. As far as I know the 1Kg rule doesn't apply to gliders doing the A test - it only applies to fixed wing power. So as a pure glider you could take the test. But the trouble is because its a "powered glider" I think it will be classified as "powered fixed wing" in which case the 1kg rule does apply I'm afraid - unless anyone knows different? As far as I am aware there is no separate test for "powered gliders" - sorry . BEBEdited By Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 16/11/2011 00:33:23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Billings Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Hi, just looked at the online version of the BMFA handbook and achievment scheme downloads. The good news is that powered gliders are covered by the silent flight electric A cert, and there is no mention of a minimum weight, only a discussion between the examiner and candidate on the suitability of the model for the local flying conditions with the possibility of the exam being postponed till suitable flying conditions are available for your relevant model. Hope this helps. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben B Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Not all clubs require the A cert for solo flying. Some just put limitations on when you can / cannot fly e.g. only flying if there is an instructor on site etc etc. IE you can't just pitch up and fly if there's no-one there to make sure you're safe. Then again, some "clubs" don't even have that. I fly on council land and we don't even have a requirement to have insurance (though I don't think any of us are crazy enough to not). Then again, some of the flying that goes on would suggest some kind of certification scheme would be a good thing- not naming any names but when some people go to take off we hide for cover in the bushes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trev Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 hello all. Well many thanks indeed for that useful advice and input. Yes i do Have BMFA membership and the subsequent insurance cover. As yet I have not joined a club locally as the mainstream interest seems to be powered fixed wing or helos. The electric silent flight category seems to be one that is overlooked which is a shame as I find it really enjoyable and therapeutic and you have to have powered gliders here in Lincolnshire coz its sort of , well ermmm flat !!. Thanks again for the info, at least i know what I am looking for now. i am quite fortunate that where I work is an ex RAF base and the owner has given me permission to fly whenever I like - which is nice! Thanks again and happy flying. Trev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Austin Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hi there Guys I'm now at the stage of gleaning the finer details out of the BMFA book of words for the A certificate. There is one requirement for which I am trying to understand the reason why! I accept the requirement, as it was obviously included after some considerable thought. BUT WHY, after the flight, when you go on to the field to retrieve the model, must you leave your radio with somebody else, or not take your radio with you during the retrieval? I'm using 2.4GHz See "A certificate Silent Flight -Electric"2013 "The Questions" final paragraph "why should operating transmitters not be taken out when retrieving models from an active flying area" Go With the Flow Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaunie Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 The reason for not taking your Tx onto the flying field when recovering your model is that it could put your Tx much closer to another pilots model than his Tx. This could then "swamp" the front end of his receiver. As a result the receiver would turn down its AGC (automatic gain control) and would then go deaf to that pilots transmitter resulting in glitching or loss of control. Just because your Tx is on a different channel doesn't mean his receiver won't hear it, it does but tries to ignore it. Imagine trying to hear someone across a room talking to you with another person shouting right into your ear! When the shouter shuts up you can hear the other person no problems at all. This is less of a problem with 2.4GHz gear but it is still possible for it to happen, so it's "better safe than sorry". Shaunie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 hi bruce think about 27 MHz + 35 MHz as well as 2.4 MHz I reckon you'll suss the answer yourself bit too late Edited By john stones 1 on 15/02/2014 16:24:25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Austin Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 OK Shaunie I can understand that logic. John, as I'm an obvious Newbie trying to get clarity, I'm not sure why I need to be trying to "think about 27MHz ,35MHz and 2.4 MHz" when I have indicated that I am using 2.4GHz Can you expand your train of thought a wee bit please? Go With the Flow Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john stones 1 - Moderator Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 ok Bruce simple really, your post came over as someone who thinks about what he's doing, and takes it seriously you've been reading BMFA book you stated. your answer is on page 35 I paid you the compliment of believing you'd suss it yourself. my apologies if it came over differently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bennett Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Is there no flexibility in the rule about taking your trannie when retrieving your model? At our club (non-BMFA) we all take our trannies with us when retrieving, and we believe it's safe because our runway is separate from our normal flying area, so when we're retrieving we're further away from the airborne models than their pilots. I would feel very unsafe if I thought that someone or something could accidentally open my model's throttle while I'm retrieving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Cavie Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Is there any reason why you cannot take the Silent Flight (Electric) A test? I did many years ago as the club I was flying with wanted you to hold the relevant A certificates for whatever you were flying. This was despite holding a fixed wing examiner qualification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think that as long as flying using 35MHz remains perfectly possible the test will stay as it is - ie no Tx's on the strip. I believe its true that that 2.4GHz is highly resistant to this problem - but long experience tells us that 35MHz is not so resistant! So for the sake of coverage of all possibilities I think the requirement will remain. Its not really a big deal - firstly fixed wing power flyers can usually taxi the model back to the flight box (except maybe from the dead stick landing if it really does go dead stick on you - which happens!). In the case of electric silent flight where you couldn't, then you can simply hand the Tx to the examiner while you retrieve the model - being sure to tell him as soon as you have turned it off. BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme jones Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 BEB - "taxi the model back to the flight box". Surely you meant pilot box, my flight box stays in the pits. Graeme Edited By graeme jones on 19/02/2014 15:47:27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bran Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Posted by Ben B on 16/11/2011 09:02:41:Then again, some of the flying that goes on would suggest some kind of certification scheme would be a good thing- I really don't think it has much to do with certification at all, but state of mind, eyesight, and temprament, as a couple of real terrors I avoid are both "B" holders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Posted by graeme jones on 19/02/2014 15:45:39: BEB - "taxi the model back to the flight box". Surely you meant pilot box, my flight box stays in the pits. Graeme Edited By graeme jones on 19/02/2014 15:47:27 Yes Grahame - I did indeed mean "pilots box" - taxiing in the pits is a no-no! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Posted by Martin Cavie on 19/02/2014 09:34:57: Is there any reason why you cannot take the Silent Flight (Electric) A test? I did many years ago as the club I was flying with wanted you to hold the relevant A certificates for whatever you were flying. This was despite holding a fixed wing examiner qualification. that sounds rather odd. I'd always thought that the regular fixed-wing A-test was considered rather like a super-set of the electric A-test. it's certainly considered that way in my club - ie: if you can pass an A-test on a 1kg+ model, including ground take-offs, that you're probably not going to be too much of a menace with a motor-glider, unless it's a 5kW carbon beast perhaps (especially if you read the report in the latest BMFA news) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Having witnessed the event referred to above, I can confirm that (a) there was NO element of exaggeration in the account and (b) the thought of a beginner getting hold of a similar model would reduce me to a quivering pile of jelly! An A test (power) in our club is accepted for all FW disciplines. I certainly see nothing wrong with that approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Posted by Martin Harris on 20/02/2014 02:10:28: Having witnessed the event referred to above Martin, I didn't want to derail this thread, so I've created a new one relating to that incident: **LINK** would be interested if you, or the man himself, could comment andyh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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