Please kill off Bertie Barnstormer it's just not funny!

[cameramanpilot]

Come on guys please kill off this utter rubbish. Even if Mike Palin read it out,  it still is not funny and never will be. Its time to please kill off Gusset and Barnstomer and if necessary the person that thinks they are writing this as the  next sit com which it is not.  Its a  waste of a page and would be better served with photo's of model aircraft,  advert or photo's of their club.  

I am not an old godger with no sense of humour but Graham Ashby please stop publishing it. I may have to rethink my subscrition if you keep this up. Also re those plans  A great majority of your readers are ARTF's/ heli flyers  and I would far rather the money was spent on stickers for RCM and E and some graphics for our aircraft instead of plans every month. 

Please please kill off this Barnstomer rubbish!

[David Ashby - Moderator]

Thanks cameramanpilot - noted, thanks for your comments. Bertie is back for short spell only. 

The plans are very popular - a lot of readers tell us they like them and if the build section of the forum is anything to go by, the number of builders seems to be on the rise as time goes by. We feel it's a core part of RCM&E and that traditional building should encouraged. Bertie's return is temporary but the plans will stay. 

[cameramanpilot]

Thank you for your reply. Re Bertie =Temporary is too long ditch it now please. I am sure the author is a talented guy get him to write something useful instead of this or put Barnstomer on the forum each month then I won't have to see a waste of a page of RCM and E,  thats my opinion sorry but its me that subscribes.

Also re plans I am not asking for you to ditch these plans but once a year give the readers something else. I find it amazing that you don't want to do stickers and the odd useful aircraft graphics that advertise your magazine most companies would jump at this?

Thanks again

cp

[cameramanpilot]

I think we should have a poll to kill off Bertie now? Its just not funny!

[Tim Mackey]

Plans over bloomin advertising stickers any day !! and ehen was ANY graphic sticker "useful". Bertie? variety is the spice of life mate....variety.

[Bob Cotsford]

plans a traditional giveaway - granted they were a frequent feature in the 70s-90s, but not neccessarily with every month. I've a drawfull at home, but why is it that the ones I can find are not the ones I want to build? I remember seeing the plan for Zippy, a zip together soarer someone asked about, but could I find it? I came into an SC15, perfect for another Hairy Gnome bipe thinks I, can I find the plan for that? can I bugger.

What I still have and still use are the other free gifts from RCME and RM, namely mini set-squares, rib jigs, wood/wire size guages etc. I've still got a few freebee control horns and one very usefull gift, a packet of fuel tube clips. My RCME tx aerial frequency flag finally fell apart a couple of months ago, surely the most usefull and long lasting giveaway to date?

Camerablokey, why get so upset about something in the mag?  If you don't like it, ignore it - even rip the page out and throw it away.  It's only a bit of paper after all.  Even better, send David a contribution to replace it!

[cameramanpilot]

Hi Bob

Like you I am entitled to my opinion and like you I buy the mag.. They want feedback I have given my feedback.  I won't rip the page out of a good mag but will think about Bertie when the renewal comes up in a couple of months. Before people say that I don't have an idea about things that are funny I spent many years doing some of the best loved Network comedy sit coms on TV still being sold on DVD today so I can read a good Script sadly Barrnstomer is far from one.

cp 

[Bob Cotsford]

humor is a variable, very much dependant on personal taste, upbringing, hangups etc.  Even dependant on moral tone of the nation - remember the sitcom about the racist with a coloured neighbour, Love thy Neighbour - how long would that last these days, yet it was very popular in it's day.  Years ago both Aeromodeller and the radio mags devoted whole pages to various humerous writers, Pylonius being one of them, always the first page I turned to.  Brian Winch is another writer who can bring a smile to my face.  I guess there is a limit to the number of people with this knack and the editors have to work with what they're given.  Personally I hate the endless reviews of ARTFs that all seem to fly wonderfully straight from the box, but what the hell, if there's not enough of interst to me in an issue, I buy something elsre or keep my money in my pocket.

 So come on, spill the beans - who did you work with and what were they like?

[Mark Lubbock]

I agree with Bob, the humorous page is a long lasting tradition-Pylonious (illustrated by 'sherry', I believe, showing my age now!), followed by Roland Graunchet, sadly missed by me at least, & now Bertie.

Seriously, if you can't tolerate one page out of a whole magazine, then don't buy or read it.

My own views re the mag, for what they are worth:

Alex Whittaker-amusing & sometimes irreverent-just what this hobby needs at times.

Free Plans-Excellent & varied & one of my main reasons for subscribing.

Brian Winch-excellent articles, but his engine tests are very 'samey' & tend to read like advertising blurb for the particular engine-particularly Saitos.

Getting a bit fed up with ARTF electrics, but I suppose that's where the marketplace is now.

All in all, an excellent mag, with something for most tastes, IMHO.

[Mark Lubbock]

 I've copied this (my) response from the other thread in "all things flying" as I feel this one needs a similar response as well as the above!

I must say I don't agree with the above comments re Bertie-I find it (him?)both witty & amusing. I think we are all in danger of taking ouselves a bit too seriously at times & a few oblique sideswipes at the establishment does no harm at all.

You will never please everyone, but there is time & place for most things & banning something because you don't happen to like it is exactly the stance that causes loss of flying fields, restrictive legislation etc., to us & other minority interests.

[Tentpeg]

I must admit that I find 'Bertie Barnstormer rather tedious and unfunny, but as Clint Eastwood once said, 'Opinions are like a***holes, everybody has one but they don't necessarily want to hear yours'.

Regards,

Tentpeg.

[cameramanpilot]

Oh well looks like I am the only reader who hates Bertie. So will have to suffer it or move on. Thanks for the feedback guys.

cp

[cameramanpilot]

What I will say is well done for RCM and E not to stop this thread. I thought they would wipe it. So thanks I am impressed - it proves democracy exists.

cp

[Miroslav Olenjin]

Hello from Australia,

I love plans and think that's one of the best things in RCM&E.

I would just like to see more gliders and simple electric models... There are lot of cheap 400-sized brushless outrunners on the market, and cheap 2S LiPo batteries.. you can make miracles with these. For example, I've scratch-built my "Robina" around the Speed 400:

http://www.aussiemodelforum.com/Main.php?action=Article&id=405 

So give us simple but original things.. That make one thinking 'I can build this in two afternoons..'

[Tony Richardson]

Must admit I find Berties tongue in cheek humour entertaining, his refusal to submit to the P/C NIMBY do gooders of the day is refreshing to say the least, read between the lines and look at the satire you to may find some humour.

[Richard Mozley]

D'accord

[Jim Bottomley]

Some input re Bertie from a very sad person - I think he's very humourous and well written!

RCM&E is an excellent mag and will probably soon be the only one I subscribe to (down from a half dozen or so, inc US ones) but despite the publication's excellence as an aeromodelling publication I always turned to the back page first to read 'Bertie'.

Not a lot makes me laugh out loud these days but Berie always did - and I hope will do so in the future. When 'Bertie' was dropped last time I sent a message to regster my disappointment at the event (but didn't cancel my subscription) and Gawd help me carefully removed the final article and framed it to be hung on my workshop wall.

Sadness lifted - at least temporarily.

Great stuff Graham!

BTW - I like your editorials too so, for me, the mag now has a great beginning, middle and end.

Perfick!

[Ian Jones]

I subscribe to the variety point of view in all respects, Bertie, plans, electric v IC, the lot. I cannot think of a single magazine I have ever read that has has been 100% the exact content for me, especially at the first reading. It is not unusual that an article I originally dismissed becomes useful at a later date and even Bertie gets an occasional revisit while I'm at it.

I think I am probably one of the ARTF types that some "modellers" discriminate against, though I have built a few 'planes from plans as well. I think that variety is the essence here too and also I think that whilst putting down ARTF assemblers, some "modellers" should be more broad minded about the reasons some people are very happy to be primarily ARTFers. Some of the attitudes expressed towards ARTFers are thoughtless & offensive to people who really do not have much choice. Building can be time consuming and some people are simply not very good at it but these are not the only reasons ARTFs are popular. ARTFs open up the sport to many people with disabilities that otherwise would be excluded or have their involvement diminished. The BMFA promotes the involvement of people with disabilities in this sport so why shouldn't the "modellers" that so regularly seem to despise the sight of anything in the slightest bit prefabricated fall in line too? I know a number of RAF & Civil pilots and none of them built their own 'planes, does that mean they have no right to be pilots? In most cases the old ramble about ARTF poor quality doesn't hold anymore either, I've seen some pretty awful 'planes built by experienced "modellers" too. A more considerate tone not an "us & them" argument is all I ask, please.

That plea brings me back to the plot. I think that on the whole the magazine strikes a reasonable balance so it would take more than a single page that I don't like to make me reconsider buying it.

[Bionic]

Lay off Birtie, he taught me to fly R C just outside his first' big house'  near Wigan Pier, for which I am forever gratfull. I blame the emissions from this new fangled 2.4 gig radio gear, It removes some folks humour cell from their brains.

[Michael Tinkler]

So is this what RCME is to become - an ARTF cataloque with free stickers - presumably the technical articles will tell us how to apply the stickers - I think we should submit any such plans to Birtie for his considered opinion first. Seriously I have become increasingly concerned about the number of 'kit' reviews of ARTF and so called 'park' flyers which are in reality toys appearing in RCME. I guess that commercial considerations - review a product and sell a page of advertising to the importer - is a driving force. Those of us who build and fly rather than buy and fly still want a magazine that caters for grownups.

[Ian Jones]

Mr Tinkler,  Perhaps my earlier comments mean nothing to you?

I take it you are one of the 'some "modellers"' I referred to then?

If you are lucky you will never find out what it is like to able to fly but not build. Well watch out, it comes to most of us in the end, unless the end comes very quick.

Though your world is shrinking, there is still space for everyone, so there's no need to be so snobby & discriminating.

For the record I don't care for park flyers either & they certainly do not share the same category as ARTFs, kit or plan built aircraft. I still see no need to insult people who do enjoy them though.

As a matter of interest - if another modeller built a 'plane & offered it to you would you decline purely on the principle that you didn't build it yourself, after all it be could worse than ARTF, it could be "Ready To Fly"? How many modellers would give the same answer?

You don't have to answer me, just broaden your horizons a bit.

[Alistair Taylor]

This is a cracking discussion!

Kill Bertie off cos you dont find him funny? Why draw the line there. Kill off all articles on helicopters/electrics/slope soarers/scale if you don't fly them while you're about it!

RCM&E will never please all of the modellers all of time, cos we're such a varied/scattered/disorganised bunch of individualists.

Imagine the cost/size of an issue of RCM&E that had an article, a kit review, an equipment test, and a plan feature covering all possible permutations of sport/scale/EDF/EP/IC/ARTF/fixed wing/rotary wing/indoor/kit built/plan built/Alex-Whittaker built (complete with cross-grain spar webs...tsk)?

Sheesh! It would be the size of the phone book and cost gazillions.

and the idea that there are "real modellers" and, by implication, "not real" (unreal? undead? out of this world?) modellers is...well pretty funny really.

Especially when accompanied by the word "grownups". Come on Mr Tinkler, we're all big kids who spend ludicrous amounts of money on (admittedly quite advanced) toy aeroplanes, cos it makes us happy. That some of us are able to build our own, or can afford bigger ones is no reason to get all exclusive. You play with your jet turbine, I'll play with my cox (ahem...), we're all aeromodellers.

Speaking personally, on balance RCM&E annoys me less than it's nearest competitor, and caters better for my current modelling interests than its nearest competitor. When RCM&E issues a plan for something I will never want to build - tant pis - another one will plop through the letterbox in the not too distant future (nevermind that the backlog of unbuilt projects is running at about 100 years building time).

It's true that RCM&E reviews pretty much the same products as the other magazines, but then that's what's available, and that's what we all buy (that's market forces for you), and I think RCM&E does these reviews better (although there's allways room for improvement) than other magazines anyway. 

AlistairT

[Ian Jones]

AlistairT is quite right and there's two more points:

1. This forum is www.[b]modelflying[/b].co.uk not www.[b]modellers[/b].co.uk
2. On a similar line, the magazine was named Radio Control Models & Electronics in 1960 not Radio Control Modellers & Electronics. It has retained and fulfilled that title to this day.

These are very broad titles that allow the readership to appreciate many if not, (at some time or other), all aspects of the sport.

I do sympathise with those that feel "traditional modelling" is disappearing but wonder if it is true:

• How many builders were there 20 years ago, how many are there now?
• How many model shops were ther 20 years ago, how many now?
• How many clubs 20 years ago, how many now?

Anyway there is room for everyone & all things under the RCM&E title. This is also means that when a lightweight electric park fly thing that I'm not interested in gets a feature I just have to accept that there are others that will declare the article was right up their street.

So if Bertie entertains a reasonable number of people then so be it. No problem!

[David Mayne 2]

I'm missing the plot here, was Bertie in the latest edition, cos I missed it. (or haven't I bought it yet?)  However, reading the entertaining discussion, I realised that there is one item that needs to go in the mag,   and that is "stickers".

When I last did aeromodelling, we had a choice of water transfers (flimsy) or plastic stickers that you just peeled off. And it was obvious.     But given my recent efforts its hard to figure which is which in an artf  box( just to get me going again!)  so maybe there are some other sorts (and I have wrecked a few!).   Last lot was like fablon and you had to cut them out!

How do you tell what is what and can Bertie advise me?

Regards

[Tim Mackey]

Well said Alistair and Ian.