Zooooming videos - is it just me?

[IanR]

I spend a lot (far too much, really) of time looking at videos of models I like the look of and what really gets on my wick is the way Spielberg wannabees try to zoom in as close as possible.

 

As soon as they can they're pressing the zoom button, losing focus, and, half the time, losing the model off the screen entirely. At best, the model is bouncing around the screen like a mad thing.

 

And worst of all you can't actually tell how the model is flying. Like the binocular function on my Phoenix sim, you can see the model's orientation, but you can't even guess how it flies. (I don't really want to point a finger but I can't help referring to David A's recent vldeo review of the Seagull Raven - frankly useless, in my opinion. Might just as well have been listening to a radio report..sorry)

 

Some of the best videos I've seen have been taken with non-zooming hatcams where you can see the horizon below the model and then gauge how its flying by having a non-moving frame of reference (yes, I know the horizon moves whilst the model is stationery in the middle of the screen but you know what I mean)

 

OK, camerapeople, I know its also no good trying to look at a small, high dot in the far distance but come on, stop trying to provide close-ups of distant fast flying objects - it just doesn't work. If you want to provide us with close-ups then do so at the start or end of a flight (second thoughts - start would be better)

 

I'm sure everyone agrees with me - or is it just me?

 

In friendship

Ian

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

Ian have you tried to it yourself? Its not the easiest.

[ricky]

i use a tripod to mount my camera to,gives a more smoother camera flow,rather than trying to hold out at half arms length.there is a little bar that sticks out,used for tightening the rotations..i use that to move the mount that holds the camera...works well for me

ricky

[fly boy3]

If you put in the word videos in the search box, you will get an exellent answer from Romeo Whisky.  I asked this question and had 1st class results when using his write up.  Cheers,   For R/W, thanks.

 

Edited By fly boy3 on 30/01/2012 22:25:07

[Pete B]

There's certainly a focal length between wide-angle and fully-zoomed that gives the operator and viewer the best compromise in terms of subject size and camera-shake.

 

In my opinion, auto-focus is the most efficient spoiler for action shots. When there is only a tiny object or low-contrast background on which to focus, it will hunt incessantly which is very annoying.

If your camcorder has a manual-focus option, it is best to disable auto-focus and pre-focus in manual on a point about 75 feet away (you have to use your own judgement!). I normally focus on the far side of the strip. Filming models in the air, the mechanics of lenses means that the hyperfocal distance, ie 75ft, will mean that everything between 50ft and near-infinity should be in focus.

 

Pete

[IanR]

Seamus - not with flying models, no.

Ricky, fly boy, Pete - I found a reply from R/W to your query, fly boy, Dated 13/02/2011.

 

These remarks appear to concentrate on getting the best quality zoomed video. I would still argue that not zooming, or at least, not zooming too much is the better way to go.

 

When the BBC show Formula one on tv, they very rarely zoom right into the car. You can see what the car is doing, how it slows approaching a bend, its position on the track and so on and so on. When ITV were showing F1 they were constantly zooming to fill the screen with the subject car. The video quality was perfect - focussed, framed and no bouncing around the screen. But you couldn't tell what the car was doing - you could only see which way it was pointing.

 

Poorly produced video, out of focus and bouncing around the screen is bad enough, but the worst thing is not being able to tell what the model is doing (add in a uniformly coloured sky ie without clouds contrasted against a blue sky and phew!)

 

I know nowt about photography except point and click but, without getting bogged down with technicalities, it seems to me that zooming out would solve all problems associated with filming small, rapidly flying objects so that the viewer can properly observe their behaviour.

 

Regards

Ian

[IanR]

Just me then. I'll get my coat.

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

Don't forget your hat

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

No seriously Ian the differences is most cameras/cameramen that you see videos from are not up to the job of autofocusing and zooming on a fast moving model going in all three axis at the same time.
Most of the better videos are carefully choreographed between the flyer an cameraman.
As for F1 the camera angles they use are the most boaring and give you no sense of speed acceleration or breaking forces, I think the reason is anything else would have the audience sea sick very quickly.
It's a bit ironic that the favourite F1 shot seems to be slow motion.

[Phil Claridge]

i have an old sony handy cam that uses tapes, i use the view finder which has a little dot of dust right in the middle. ikeep that on the model to keep it in shot. the most trouble i find is not knowing where the models going if you dont co ordinate with the pilot and if you zoom in too much you lose sight of the plane. i use mine screwed to a rifle but mounting. its yonks old but still gives better quality video that some newer cameras

[IanR]

Seamus, I seem to have lost my scarfe.

 

One last thing. Coincedentally, this pm I was looking at a video which I think nigh on perfectly shows how a model flies. I'll try and get in touch with the photographer and ask his permission to put up a link, here. In the meantime,

 

Cheers

Ian

 

[Steve W-O]

Ian, on a way I agree with you, there is a fine balance, and it is rarely found.

 

My camera operators are my kids, what i do now is to fill the frame when it is on the strip, and leave it like that. Manual focus on infinity, and manual exposure, otherwise everytime you get a bit of bright sky, the model is too dark, better to burn out the sky.

 

My pet hate is music and ten dozen transitions. Model planes do make a noise, but they don't play daft music.

[IanR]

Hi

 

 

This is not the video I had in mind above, but it will do just as well. I hope the pilot and cameraman won't mind me saying that, technically, its perhaps not the last word in cinematic perfection.

 

However, as a piece of video showing how a model flies, then for me, it is absolutely perfect. I can almost feel myself standing behind the pilot at the flying field. (except for the music which, personally, I could live without - any music that is)

 

The camera obviously has a zoom facility but the cameraman mostly refrains from using it at all and, when he does, only very sparingly - even when the model is a tiny speck. As a result, I can tell exactly how the model is flying. Brilliant.

 

Well done pilot and cameraman.

 

Does anyone agree with me - or is it still just me?

 

Ian

 

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

Ian, I hope you found your scarf?
Eh how can I say this, it's only you. that video did nothing for me and only for your consideration did I keep watching for more than 10sec.
I really liked the Mozzy what model is it?

[Bucksboy]

I watch the videos and I can understand both sides. A video of a dot flying around is useless to me but then so is a bouncy, blurred zoomed in shot. I agree that the cameras most of us use are not up to the job we set them.

 

We tried filming the other day and our attempts were worse than most of the videos that I have ridiculed in the past, revealing how hard it is. I'll try again using a monopod to stabilise the camera. To be honest though, I watch the take off and then cut to the landing, the most interesting parts, and ignore the middle.

 

I like the music and the sound effects that some people edit in, we're all different I suppose....

[IanR]

Right, then, I've got me coat, me hat and me scarf. I'm going out now - I may be gone for some time.

 

Ian

(Black Horse Mozzy)

[Tim Mackey]

LOL...never mind Ian - we all like different things remember

[fly boy3]

To my untrained photographic eye, only thing wrong with this video is that the model is much too far away from the camera, exept on t/o and landing. Cheers

[FunnyFlyer]

I used to make a living filming models - but of a very different variety.....

 

Here's my thoughts:

 

You guys are right - switch of auto-focus and use some sort of tripod / monopod if possible

 

There must be an element of planning to get the shots you require. If you don't do this - you end up with what 99% of the youtube RC videos look like. It's obvious, but make sure you fly close to the camera!  For example, don't film the circuit - you'll be trying to follow a dot in the sky - as will the viewer.  Choreograph a low pass down the strip, pull up into a reversal or stall turn and then back the other way.  Repeat several times, maybe getting a closer shot (pre-zoomed) of the reversal and then mix in the edit with the longer shots 

 

Tell the story - getting the model prepared, taxi out, take-off, some manoeuvres and landing and the pats on the back - or the sympathetic arm around the shoulder if it crashes

 

Watch the length of each shot. Make them no more than 10-20 secs. Watch any TV programme and movie and time how long the camera position changes - you'll be surprised how short it is

 

Use cutaways to help here. A  5 second shot of the pilot or his hands on the sticks. 

 

NEVER use the zoom function during a shot - it just looks amateurish. It's difficult to do with a flying model, but zoom first and then take the shot. This can also be achieved in the edit if you kept the camera running

 

When it comes to the edit - leave 99% of those transition effects on the toolbar. A nice fade between shots is always a good one and maybe fade from / to black at the beginning and end or to show time compression

 

Music will benefit most model flying vids and will help continuity during the edit when pilot chatter gets snipped. Always good to have a bit of live atmos at least at the beginning and end

 

Just a few thoughts.

 

Edited By FunnyFlyer on 02/02/2012 16:56:53

[fly boy3]

Very interesting FF, will give it a go when weather returns. Cheers

[FunnyFlyer]

For all you aspiring film makers - here's a good 101 guide.

 

http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Documents/short/gramtv.html#Top

[Pete B]

I'll endorse what FF has said about videoing - some very good advice in his earlier post. It's the same with still photography - anyone can take a snapshot but making a photograph requires some application and skill.

 

Our primary interest here is model building and flying and that is where most of our efforts lie. It's not possible to give both disciplines the attention they deserve at the same time, so we tend to end up concentrating on the flying and the videoing/photography is largely for record purposes, rather than a production in its own right.

 

To make a good, watchable video takes a reasonable camcorder, skill and planning - and an understanding of the subject - so much of the material we see on the Web will inevitably fall short of our expectations.

 

Pete

[Ben B]

I think the "shotgun" style camera mount they use to film Flitetest is quite good. It makes it very easy to point it in the right direction.

 

I think there's surely a balance between too close (in which case speed and environment are totally lost) and watching a dot in the sky wizzing round and round (where only speed and relative movement is visable).

 

Surely the best is a combination of everything mentioned.

 

IE some panned-back flying to get an idea of speed, quick cut-away to the pilot (obviously film afterwards) then in to a zoomed-in shot for a few seconds to shot the plane.

 

The Mozzie video does have rubbish fades/wipes. If you want to make a video look cheap and nasty chuck the whole box of Scooby Doo style shimmery fades at it. If you want to make it look good get two dSLR (one for filming the wide-shot), one filming close, film some filling material after the flight (nice wide shot to show the pilot in their environment IE standing in the middle of the field works quite well) etc etc. Lots of nice editing, don't spend too long on one shot, don't worry if fillers don't entirely match (people don't notice!) etc etc, use simple quick cross-fades rather than wipes / effects. And if you're cutting don't do a harsh audio+video cut, do something like a L cut and absolutely avoid jump cuts.

 

That's what I've taken on board for my previous Adobe Premiere powered efforts anway....