Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 In Myron's (hopefully very temporary) absense, I assumed his grumpy mantle yesterday... As an afterthought, I lobbed the box containing my ST Models ASH26 into my car yesterday afternoon as the sky between the showers looked distinctly soarable. When I got to the club I had my first grumpy (and senior) moment when I remembered that the last time I'd flown it I landed with some difficulty due to one of the aieron servos intermittently driving to one end and/or sticking and had totally forgotten to change it! After some thought about doing an on-site change out (the sky looking particularly active) if I could find a suitable servo, I dismissed it as being impractical and my thoughts turned to a compromise...there are 2 ailerons set well out from the centreline, I've got a reasonably effective rudder and the model coped with the sticking glitching servo so will it fly OK if I neutralise and disconnect the faulty one? A careful turn either way after launching showed adequate control, Myron Mode was switched off and after a brief motor run I found myself in plentiful lift, abandoning it at 433 metres as the all white glider was becoming a little tricky to track. After gently spinning down to a reasonable height, I embarked on the hunt for another boomer... Until the model went into a tight spiral with no response from the aileron and roosted in the biggest tree for miles around. Return of Mt Grumpy... As I approached the model I could hear a loud buzzing from 100 yards away. The prop was still so the motor wasn't running but full right aileron made the noise stop - so the "good" aileron servo was no more. I can't say for certain that it didn't get damaged when it hit the tree but given the model's behaviour, I think there's a strong possibility that the servo had failed in a similar manner to its resting partner. A few attempts to self-extricate ended when the dangling battery disconnected itself (I suspect by the prop cutting a wire) and with help from several friends various attempts were made to fire an arrow with some string attached over it to pull it out - almost successfully on one attempt where I managed to move it a bit. We'd got quite good at recovering the arrow and laying out the string by the time my fingers wore out (the tips are still a little numb today) so I shall be looking out some finger re-inforcement and some lighter cord/fishing line to enable further attempts tomorrow. Not being an archer (at least not since my arrows had rubber suckers) I was very surprised how accurately I could position the arrow, the limiting factor being the string getting progressively heavier and hairier from the repeated dragging back through various branches. With a decent Jeti receiver and my vario module stuck in the tree, not to speak of the model, I'm still in grumpy mode - but looking forward to the challenge in a perverse way! Edited By Martin Harris on 13/04/2012 11:51:18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Ladder. Olly....Grumpy suggestion/lack of sleep dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 A bit worrying - what make/model were the servos? I have never had a servo fail in flight yet - I have managed to wreck a few through mishandling though. To have 2 fail in the same way seems incredibly improbable.. but we have to trust your judgement.. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Ah, Martin, while its true that you can fly with only one aileron. and its even the case that (with enough rudder and some dihedral) you can fly with no ailerons. What you can't successfully do is fly with one aileron perminantly stuck up! Your story reminds me of an old scientist's joke. There was a once a scientist who wanted to understand if fleas could be trianed to do simple tasks in the face of difficulties. So he trianed a flea to jump over his finger on the command "jump". Having sucessfully achieved this he decided to add the "difficulty factor" and removed two of the fleas legs. Again he shouted "jump" and the flea jumped over his finger. So he removed two more and tested again. And again he was sucessful. Then he removed the flea's last two legs and placed the flea before his finger. "Jump" he commanded - but nothing happed. "Jump" he cried again - still no reaction. He then turned to his log book and recorded the scientific finding that "once a flea looses all six legs it becomes deaf"! BEB PS No animals were hurt or injured in the telling of this story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Posted by Martyn K on 13/04/2012 11:44:51: A bit worrying - what make/model were the servos? I have never had a servo fail in flight yet - I have managed to wreck a few through mishandling though. To have 2 fail in the same way seems incredibly improbable.. but we have to trust your judgement.. Martyn No name visible - the model came ready to put your own receiver and battery in - the first flight was a few minutes after arriving at the field after coming straight from the model shop. I've had it a year and a half and flown it a fair bit since which makes failures on consecutive flights all the odder... Olly - I suspect some fire brigades might have a long enough turntable ladder but nothing we've got would get anywhere near. (was that a grumpy enough reply? ) Edited By Martin Harris on 13/04/2012 11:58:39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I wonder if it actually a receiver problem rather than a servo problem. Are the servos on seperate channels or on a 'Y' lead?. The only time I have had a servo drive hard over was when I switched my Tx on in PCM mode and the model was in PPM mode. Made the same sort of racket that you described. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Lol. how high up are we talking? alternative solution is chainsaw...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecchio Austriaco Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Martin, as the model is still on the tree be really carefull in bringing it down - had a similar situation 2 weeks ago - the plane was stuck in the treetop - looking rather fine with a few scratches from the branches. When we got it down it was a writeoff as it slipped from the hook and fell some 6 or 7 meters to the ground - stabilizer first. Replacement arrived yesterday and I am busy fitting everything in Flying with one aileron: normally no problem if you fly "normal" , there will be just a lack of reaction. Happened to me once - was a connector problem and shouldn't happen as I normally test the control surfaces before flight. Cheers VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You can actually build a 'ladder' using a hammer and some very long nails and some stout boots. Simply hammer the nails into the tree and climb away (I have actually done this in the past). This is now deemed safe as the H&S brigade have clearly said the common sense rules apply, however, they didn't actually define common. My wife says I am very common so it must be OK. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 I rather missed the point of the thread's title - what I meant to point out was that I'd eroded the safe margin by operating with a control surface disabled where there would normally be a measure of redundancy. We've got a chainsaw (18" bar) but it's not an option due to the tree's trunk being about 8 - 10 feet diameter and not ours. Knocking in nails is not an option for the latter reason. Climbing isn't possible/practical as the first branches are well out of ladder reach. Thanks for the warning Old Austrian - we've had to do quite a few tree recoveries over the years and much of the damage is often received during recovery but in addition, electric models have introduced new hazards to be aware of. Edited By Martin Harris on 13/04/2012 12:51:35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Why do elephants have big ears?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 13/04/2012 12:54:52: Why do elephants have big ears?.... Have you been on the beer today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 No! Its in response to the title of the thread! BEB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W-O Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 13/04/2012 12:54:52: Why do elephants have big ears?.... Well, if you don't know, I won't trust you with my elephant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 13/04/2012 13:06:25: No! Its in response to the title of the thread! BEB Ah OK then - I thought another joke was one the way.. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 'cos Noddy won't pay the ransom - but I'm struggling to see the relevance - unless BEB is holding my model somewhere??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Posted by Martin Harris on 13/04/2012 12:51:03: Knocking in nails is not an option for the latter reason. Edited By Martin Harris on 13/04/2012 12:51:35 Hi Martin You can actually (easily) remove the nails on the way back down - and if you are very careful, you can take them back to B&Q for a refund. Martyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The tree is holding your model ransome Martin! BEB PS Rope thrown over lowest branch - hoist small boy into tree. Offer small boy £10 to recover model. Problem solved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 or a very very very long stick...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Makes a change from being held to ransom by the banks - but wait a mo - this tree's got branches everywhere as well! Great idea BEB but unfortunately I fear it's in contravention of our Child Protection policy. I'll have to try to get some pictures of the tree - it's a well known model magnet and there's been a trainer in it for the best part of a year that's defied all efforts and the elements so far. This is the best I can do at the moment - but what it doesn't show is the 30 foot drop to where it is growing from... We've got a very long stick Olly - well over 40 feet - which gets nowhere near the height it's at... Edited By Martin Harris on 13/04/2012 14:07:51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn K Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Posted by Olly P on 13/04/2012 13:40:33: or a very very very long stick...... Olly, you are not suggesting putting a small boy on the end of a very long stick are you? He would look like a lollipop Brings tears to the eyes. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly P Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Harsh - I was using it to hit him with until he got the aircraft down. If it came down damaged then the rope to lower him on will be withdrawn also.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Posted by Biggles' Elder Brother - Moderator on 13/04/2012 11:50:22: PS No animals were hurt or injured in the telling of this story! Nice story, BEB. We all have skeletons in the closet, though - many, many years ago I established that crane flies actually fly with their legs, not their wings, confirmed in a manner it is best to not go into in too great detail - but I still feel a bit bad about it even now.......... Regarding recovering the model, is there anyone in the club who knows a friendly tree surgeon? I'm sure they have access methods mere mortals wouldn't contemplate! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Harris - Moderator Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Hey guys - I haven't given up yet - just ran out of bow fingers yesterday and my merry men were thirsting for the pub! Work today but hoping to resume tomorrow...or maybe this evening. Edited By Martin Harris on 13/04/2012 14:34:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Chambers Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 If there is a decent amount of expensive kit in there, why not phone up your local tree surgeon and see if he'll do a retrieval for you. If he's local he might only ask £20/£30 or so. With a pair of crampons, a bit of knowledge and a head for heights, he (or she) could get it down in a matter of minutes. Possibly with minimal damage too! The cost of calling him out, could be less than what you'd loose by destroying the model/parts trying to retrieve yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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