Danny Fenton Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Hi Gordon, the Christmas baubles sounds a great idea, I will look from a different perspective next time I am decoration shopping, nice one. The Alclad arrived, but I haven't had time to try it yet. I did however manage a couple of hours playing with some lith, and once more burning my fingers. I made several more reflectors, some went in the bin as usual but I managed to get a couple to forma a more parabolic shape, with a dish depth of the required 1/2" the bulbs now will fit. I have also thought of a way of using the correct shaped bulbs with a 3Watt surface mount LED to produce some serious light output. More on this later. Here is the deeper dish with the bulb stand-off. If you look carefully you should just be able to see the bulb and filament in the reflector. The Led will sit over them and shine through all the clear parts. The key to getting the reflector shape about right was to use a 2" blunt spinner to help form the lith through a 1" hole in some MDF. Anyway, the madness continues unabated Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 15/07/2012 23:42:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde Speedbird Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Posted by Danny Fenton on 15/07/2012 23:40:20: Hi Gordon, the Christmas baubles sounds a great idea, I will look from a different perspective next time I am decoration shopping, nice one. The Alclad arrived, but I haven't had time to try it yet. I did however manage a couple of hours playing with some lith, and once more burning my fingers. I made several more reflectors, some went in the bin as usual but I managed to get a couple to forma a more parabolic shape, with a dish depth of the required 1/2" the bulbs now will fit. I have also thought of a way of using the correct shaped bulbs with a 3Watt surface mount LED to produce some serious light output. More on this later. Here is the deeper dish with the bulb stand-off. If you look carefully you should just be able to see the bulb and filament in the reflector. The Led will sit over them and shine through all the clear parts. The key to getting the reflector shape about right was to use a 2" blunt spinner to help form the lith through a 1" hole in some MDF. Anyway, the madness continues unabated Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 15/07/2012 23:42:53 Wow! Who needs a bit of silver tape, that is brilliant! This Hurricane will be brilliant! CS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Thanks CS, but look at the time this has taken!! *sigh* Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonRB Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Danny, I know exactly where you are coming from. I will spend hours trying to find the best way to make a particular piece so that it looks/functions exactly right. Becky has promised me some baubles to experiment with, but have not seen her this weekend. It is also my intention to see if litho will spin. Recently I have been seriously looking into the feasibility of obtaining a 3D printer which will make plastic components within a 250mm x 250mm x 250mm envelope. Question is are there enough builders out there who may want special parts made at reasonable cost that will make it viable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hi Gordon I am not sure if it would be viable to be honest. And that's a real shame. There is a hidden overhead that people really don't realise and that is the cad work that has to be undertaken before things can be printed. I think if you were thinking of doing it, perhaps as a method to make masters to then mold more cheaply in resin. I know that INZPan, ProTag, etc are not doing 1/6 scale instruments and cockpit details. It might prove interesting to provide things like gunsights, instrument bezels etc and various cockpit parts? But I doubt you would break even on the venture. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi Danny, I would vac form the reflector overlength and file the profile to fit against the inner face of the lens ,less the thickness of 3-armed support (if I have vuisualised correct assembly order) and then contact a metalising company who specialise in vacuum coating plastics and other materials with a reflective coating. As for the 3-armed support, I would draw a test 'oval' on paper which when layed against the inner face of the lens looks round when viewed from the front and then transfer onto a CAD drawing adding the arms whic would have to be 'stretched' to allow for forming. Again this can be photo etched by a company who would also form to the correct radius but probably not cheap. Hope this gives some further ideas. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi Barry, thanks for joining in the discussion, all ideas are welcomed. I think you will struggle to get anybody to do a reflective coating on just two reflectors. Not without spending a fortune. As for the three pronged jobbie I am not sure i follow your train of thought? There is no inner lens as far as I know. I tried the 3watt and in fact a 1watt led and they overheated and blew within 30 seconds of use. They really need a heat sink which is a shame. I originally made the hole in the light carrier to fit a standard 55,000 MCD led and this is still an option. Though it wont be very bright in daylight. Mind you it will look okay against the grey skies we seem to permananetly get in the UK these days Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi Danny, You could try vmclimited.co.uk. As for the 3-armed support, I am not clear as to how it mounts but when I referred to the lens I meant the curved 'window' at the leading edge. I see that all supports you have made to date are flat and I thought it should be curved and sit against the inside face of this window? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi Barry, I hadn't come across vmc before I have sent them a mail. I may stick with what I have for this one but it will be interesting to see what they say. The tripod mount simply attaches to the reflector, with a ring the same size as the tripod (but without the three prongs) at the rear. There is then a semi circular arm that attaches the whole assembly to the beam across the landing light bay in the wing. The whole lot is positionable from the cockpit (on the full size). Here are a couple of shots of a pretty corroded original: The assembly is close to, but doesn't touch the leading edge perspex. The three pronged bit is slightly raised at the centre compared to the edges but not much. You are right, mine are incorrect as they are flat. Cheers Danny Edited By Danny Fenton on 17/07/2012 19:17:23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonRB Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Danny, I know what you mean about design time, however for example the reflector took less tha two minutes to design and burn the SLT file to SD card ready for printing. The "printing" would take less than 3 minutes. I could have drawn it with the three legged cover in place, but then the reflector could not have been sprayed on the inside, so that part would take another 5 minutes to design and probably the same to "print". I would not be looking to make a profit out of this, just cover costs. I have a good idea how much time you have taken, and that is also part of the challenge of building models, but maybe there are some guys who don't have the time to do that but still want authentic looking parts? I would be interested in hearing if any of the forum members have thoughts on this ? Cheers, Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Gordon I think very many of us would really like to have the service available. How often we'd use it is impossible to say though. But if you do set up I'm sure we'd also like to know how and what with etc etc. If you want to set up as a labour of love and then help us out with parts where it's appropriate, then I'm sure peope would pay for material and a little extra. What materials can be printed? How heavy and how strong are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Posted by Gordon Blakemore on 17/07/2012 22:32:19: Danny, I know what you mean about design time, however for example the reflector took less tha two minutes to design and burn the SLT file to SD card ready for printing. The "printing" would take less than 3 minutes. I could have drawn it with the three legged cover in place, but then the reflector could not have been sprayed on the inside, so that part would take another 5 minutes to design and probably the same to "print". I would not be looking to make a profit out of this, just cover costs. I have a good idea how much time you have taken, and that is also part of the challenge of building models, but maybe there are some guys who don't have the time to do that but still want authentic looking parts? I would be interested in hearing if any of the forum members have thoughts on this ? Cheers, Gordon. Hi Gordon that looks very impressive, it would take me days to do that, the three pronged light support took me an hour in 2D in fact, and took a friend another two days to find a material that it could be made from, without the laser setting fire to it. I would be interested to hear what your costs would be, a hi res printer is a very expensive bit of kit to recoup. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlyingCrust Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi. Hope you don't mind me adding my pennyworth. For a reflector for the light I'd look for one in an older car down the breakers yard. some had side mounted bulbs so the reflector wouldn't have a hole in the back. Fiat spring to mind. An old X1/9 i shared with my daughter had this type. And they're chromed. And as for the 'spider' that holds the 'bulb' I'd have a go at this method. The Youtube clip shows the etching of reeds for a pulse jet but I'm sure a similar process could be used for the spider. Obviously use Litho plate not spring steel. Its the method that I find intriguing. Might work. Ian Edited By Rentman on 18/07/2012 00:49:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi Danny Thanks for photos which clarified construction. photofab.co.uk are experts in chemical etching thin metal should you decide to go this route or need something similar in future. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Johnston Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 For the reflector would a table-tennis ball cut in half be about the right size. You could spray the inside with some of that shiny paint somebody suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi Ian, the more the merrier. I must confess I hadn't considered a car reflector on the basis that most of the auto bulbs are bigger than the reflector I need. At 1" diameter the reflector is very small. I have done a quick google on the X1/9 lights but they all look to have the bulb coming in from the rear. The etching idea looks great, and that needs to be tried by somebody. I wonder what the resolution is like? Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi Martyn, I think a regulation table tennis ball is 40mm now, just over 1.5 inches, and the shape is wrong, needs to be more parabolic. But great idea, it would certainly be light. I haven't tried the paint yet to see how chrome it come out... Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonRB Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Danny, Finished the model - took about 5 minutes for the 3-legged piece, which although you cannot see it in the jpg is curved to the same shape as the back of the lens. The lens took a couple of minutes, including the name Lucas engraved in the slightly smoked glass (could not see the lens when made of clear glass!) The 3D printer prices have gone through the floor, same as ordinary printers (we paid £4500 for a laser printer 10 years ago which sells for £350 now!). I am looking at the price of consumables and hope to get a handle on running costs soon. For info paste this link into your browser (this is one of several units available at the moment). http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info.php/products_id/1992 As regards items to make I can think of everything from scale wheel hubs (fitted with axle tubes or even bearings) to machine guns, drop tanks, and all manner of scale fittings. Beauty is to model the item from full size drawings in Inventor, then it can be produced immediately at any scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonRB Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Chris, I am exploring the possibilites at the moment. The materials are all thermoplastic - ABS or similar - so would perhaps not be suitable for engine cowls around hot exhausts, but could be used to make accurate/cheap plugs for molding cowls. Typically I would ecpect to be able to make any item that would fit into a 250mm cube and components could be solid or hollow. Bigger items I would expect to make in parts which can be assembled using compatible adhesives. Minimum shell thickness I believe is in the region of 0.4mm. At the moment this is very much a feasibilty study, so I would be very pleased to get any feedback on the sort of components builders are looking for, and then I can look at what they would cost to make. As I say I am not looking to make a living out of this. Like many modellers I enjoy making things and know how time consuming making some items can be, with the result that many people either do not start or do not finish projects. Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bott - Moderator Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 My two worries would be that the material may not suit the component I wanted, and that the resolution at this time is a little "stepy" if that's a word? The items that I've seen printed have all had a series of ridges in them showing each print layer. Oh and agreeing a design might be an issue unless I learned the skill to draw it myself. For example, to my very untrained eye, that lamp looks too deep, too thick of material and the three support legs are nothing like the shape in Danny's pictures. I would think for a scale guy, that would still need a lot of tweaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 I have to agree with Chris, the item would have to look a bit more like the original for me to pay for them. I appreciate my bulb carriers are not convex on the upper surface, (however I think I may have a way of doing that). But I do think the shape is closer to the original. This is the 3D printed Spitfire stuff I have. It was done in the States on a very expensive machine, and the complete cockpit was close to £200 including taxes. The sport scale guys I doubt would be interested unless it was relatively cheap, the serious scale guys will want it to be incredibly accurate. The scale competitors will want to make it themselves or they will have to declare they bought the part in. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonRB Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I agree with a lot of what is said. The main concerns will be price and suitability of material. As regards the light, I did not do it to any particular dimension/scale or pattern as I did not have any to work too. One of the great things about Inventor is you can build something without dimensions and add them later. Also as I said before, once the modelling is done it can be drawn to any scale. We have some models at work. They did indeed have a slight ripple to the finish, but these were easily rubbed down and the finish on them is now excellent. They are certainly accurate enough after finishing to assemble into working prototype. The only other thing we had to do was to tap the holes so we could use nylon bolts for assembly (the full size is now being CNC machined from Inconel 625). I guess its a bit like laser cutting - a short while ago who would ever have thought it would be possible to get all the parts cut for a custom build, producing extremely accurate parts, saving an imense amount of build time and at very reasonable cost? Thanks for the feedback. Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 I have started to create the landing light "bay" in the Starboard leading edge. Not quite accurate but I think close enough. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Fenton Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 The end is in sight I think, this is the Starboard light, most of the parts were duplicated so just have to assemble the port unit. The tape is to hold the acetate taught while the canopy/RCModellers glue dries. Cheers Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ashby - Moderator Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Looks mightly fine to me Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.